Forged Internals

[TheJohnny]

Ok, I know that all this info is flying around out there but I'm hoping that someone makes this a stick for those of us considering going to forged internals. I'm talking about parts and name brands of what to go with when doing the upgrade to forged. I know that Azian6er is having his in by the end of the month and I'm hoping that others can post some of what they installed and where they got there parts, to include prices. I'm trying to go with the following: Forged Pistons & Forged Rods and everything else that needs to go along with it. I just want to ensure I don't blow the bottom end apart. Let me know your opinions and so forth.

Thanks... and if you know anyone in Vegas who has done this, let me know.

 

[Kooldino]

Just use the regular threads...so far we have Pauter rods, Weisco, JE, and SRP pistons available to us.

 

[seatbackfurther]

As i've stated before, arias also makes custom pistons, at the cost 145 a piece. Almost any maker of pistons will custom make them. I've heard of someone saying C-P pistons, but I am unfamiliar with them.

 

[igdrasil]

beetle pistons are forged and the set is very cheap.

 

[Mental Addiction]

We use alot of CP Pistons as well.
While there are a number of people running the Pauter rod, it is actually a poor design with very little torsional (twisting) strength.Right now we are working with Oliver Rods( www.oliver-rods.com ) to design as much stronger rod for the Protege.

 

[perfworks]

We use alot of CP Pistons as well.
While there are a number of people running the Pauter rod, it is actually a poor design with very little torsional (twisting) strength.Right now we are working with Oliver Rods( www.oliver-rods.com ) to design as much stronger rod for the Protege.

I cannot agree with this post. We have use Pauter Rods for years. Very very durable and strong.
I would like to know what you mean by "poor design". We haven't had one issue with over 200 sets we have sold thru the few years we have used them.

 

[seatbackfurther]

beetle pistons are forged and the set is very cheap.

any info? And what do you mean by cheap?

 

[igdrasil]

any info? And what do you mean by cheap?

$230 the set with the cylinder walls which we are not going to use.
I will check if there are specs to fit our cars.

My friend is using them on his Toyota 1.8L with 40psi of boost.

 

[seatbackfurther]

well, i was hoping for spec's, material, web site, etc

 

[Mental Addiction]

I cannot agree with this post. We have use Pauter Rods for years. Very very durable and strong.
I would like to know what you mean by "poor design". We haven't had one issue with over 200 sets we have sold thru the few years we have used them.

I am sure you have seen these rods but for those who have not, they are a cross beam design which means if you were to cut the beam in half, the section would look like a "+" (plus sign). While this has an interesting look and it is unique, it like every other design has pros and cons. On the pro side, it has good support under the pin and in the right application, should take power fairly well. On the con side, this design has most of its mass in the center of the beam where the two "fins" meet and has very little mass out toward the outside fibers( important). This gives it very little torsional (twisting) strength. With the new cylinder heads being developed, there is a lot of swirling in the combustion chamber(especially in Over Head Cam motors) and this swirling pushes on the dome or dish of the piston and wants to turn it in the bore. This is a HUGE problem in the Pro Stock drag ranks and to lesser degrees as power levels and combustion pressures come down. Any way, this twisting of the rod beam causes an unequal load on the beam which means there are areas that see high load and others that see a lower load. This can be a problem because the high load areas may exceed the tensile strength of the material and cause it to either yield (major problem) or to fatigue and fail after a period of time (still a big problem but it will last a while before failure). If you have a Pauter rod that is on its way to the junk pile, put the big end in a vise, put a steel bar through the pin end and try twisting the beam by pulling on the bar. You will be surprised how easy the beam twists.

Yes, they are a good mid grade rod but are nowhere near the best.

 

[PaulMP3]

do you have any links to other rods that are available for the FS-DE

 

[Mental Addiction]

do you have any links to other rods that are available for the FS-DE

No, as of right now there is not a high quality rod on the market for the FS engine.We are working with Oliver Rods right now and here in the next month or so will have a high end rod available.

I will be posting a FEA test done on an Oliver rod against an H-beam.The test speaks for itself.

 

[MP3racer]

There are two other manufacturers that make rods for the FS-DE motor, Cunningham and Carillo. You may be correct to say that the Pauter rod may be subject to twisting forces when placed into a "Pro Stock" motor. However, I do not beleive that a street motor(with or without boost) or race motor intended for road racing/rally(with or without boost) would see these levels of strain. I really don't think Don Pauter ever intended for his rods for this type of application. When looking for something along these lines I would tend to go with the Carillos.

Just my 2 cents from experience.... (burnout)

Tom
Doc B Racing

 

[PaulMP3]

any links or pricing?

 

[Mental Addiction]

www.oliver-rods.com

We are working on the pricing and should have something in the coming week.

 

[seatbackfurther]

doesn't greddy use carillo rods?

 

[TheJohnny]

More more more....this is great. I'm really interested in learning about which rods to go with. I'm going to want something that can handle 15 psi on a daily basis and the occasional 18 psi track setting. Feed me your knowledge so I may learn.

 

[Mental Addiction]

Here is a Finite Element Analysis (FEA) of a Parabolic I-beam and an H-beam.
http://www.**************************.com/3dfea/3dfea.htm

 

[Mental Addiction]

There are two other manufacturers that make rods for the FS-DE motor, Cunningham and Carillo. You may be correct to say that the Pauter rod may be subject to twisting forces when placed into a "Pro Stock" motor. However, I do not beleive that a street motor(with or without boost) or race motor intended for road racing/rally(with or without boost) would see these levels of strain. I really don't think Don Pauter ever intended for his rods for this type of application. When looking for something along these lines I would tend to go with the Carillos.

Just my 2 cents from experience.... (burnout)

Tom
Doc B Racing

No, I do not think Don Pauter ever intended his rod to be in a Pro Stock application but, any engine that has a piston with a dome and high cylinder pressure i.e. turbo charged, super charged or nitrous is subject to this problem. Cunningham will make a rod for just about anything and I am glad he is in the business. He actually went by Olivers booth at PRI and thanked them for sending business his way. He does not do much engineering on rods and sort of guesses at what will work. In fact, just this week one of his customers called and wanted Oliver to make some rods. He said Cunningham will make what he wants and when asked if they will hold up to the power he is making, Cunningham told him that he did not know but "let's try it and see".

 

[seatbackfurther]

Any estimates on the price of carillo rods and/or oliver rods? A question.. how do you know if a rod will match to a specific piston? ie any piston with full floating wrist pin should work right? Because my brother is buying me a set of Arias pistons, 8.5:1 CR, and I have to buy the rods. So I need to make sure whatever rods I get will fit. I want to be running about 25 psi.

Also, i know both of these rods are built for intense applications, so 25 psi of boost wouldn't kill a pauter rod I don't think. I have seen many people running pauter rods with no probs with at least that.