Fiesta ST
- Thread starter Max Archer
- Start date
Its a sexy video.. but if you look at a lot of the outsdie shots.. there seems to be a ton of body roll round the corners. I saw a bit of 3 wheel cornering as well. It's definitely shot and edited to make the car look good, but I'm not convinced my 2 couldn't outrun it on the track as delivered. 0-100km time is impressive tho.
The 50-60hp gain sure would be nice for coming out of corners though, and in stop and go traffic I could really use it too especially when being stuck in 2nd on any kind of incline -- studder, studder, drop to 1st ZOOM... plus the steering wheel looks awesome and for some coin the Recaros sure would be sweet.
You don't think the 2 will 3 wheel even with coilovers? Seems like even the b-spec cars 3 wheel when really pushed hard... isn't that just a fact of life with a torsion beam rear end and stiff chassis? Would the Focus 3 wheel less?
You don't think the 2 will 3 wheel even with coilovers? Seems like even the b-spec cars 3 wheel when really pushed hard... isn't that just a fact of life with a torsion beam rear end and stiff chassis? Would the Focus 3 wheel less?
CRG Racer24
Member
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- '11 Mazda2 GX-Convenience Pkg.. Warranty Voiding Mods
I'm gonna be honest here, I didn't see much body roll, FWIW. 3 wheeling, especially in the rear, means that the rear is setup up stiff(er), which in a FWD car, is fastest (if you can drive it right)... essentially. Now, are you saying stock for stock, the 2 could beat it? Or your car now vs. stock ST.. cause even that, same driver driving the cars, the ST I believe will still be able to beat the 2.
I'm almost certain, especially with the way the B-Spec cars are setup, there will be 3 wheeling happening. B-Spec cars (AFAIK.. anyone else with knowledge can chime in) are setup stiff in the rear.. they need to be to carry momentum through the corners, since power is lacking in that series.
Which Focus? The ST has independent rear suspension.. stock, I'm not sure if it'll 3 wheel.. set it up stiff enough, and it will (although, you shouldn't set up your suspension based solely on how much height you can get it off the ground).
Yeah, I meant the ST -- I was just wondering if even with the independent rear suspension if it would 3 wheel if it was stiff enough -- I thought so based on what I've seen at auto crosses -- it was just a thought I had after watching the Fiesta video. So no, I don't plan to set one up just so it can 3 wheel, lol. Thanks for the info!
CRG Racer24
Member
- :
- '11 Mazda2 GX-Convenience Pkg.. Warranty Voiding Mods
. And no worries brah extremez31
Member
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- 2013 Mazda2 Sport (5 Speed)
Its a nice car, has a lot of potential. The fiesta Titanium starts at $18,200.. I would imagine this would be priced around 20k or so (according to Road and Track 22k). Add tax title and fees your looking at 25k. thats a lot of cheese for a fiesta. I bought my 2 out the door for 14,700 I could do a lot with 10k + in mods and not have the high insurance premium.
Installshield 2
Gothenburg Superiority
you're exactly right for the most part...Ford has been pretty vocal about how their ST line is set up suspension wise...a stiffer rear suspension will encourage rotation, dialing out a lot of the understeer that plagues nose heavy FWD cars...as far as 'which is faster'...perfect balance is the fastest...understeer and oversteer are both very slow as far as racing is concerned, so the general idea is having neither as often as possible...obviously though, that isn't really possible in every condition..as even an F1 car with a wheel base longer than the entire Fiesta ST or Mazda 2...will go from full understeer to snap oversteer instantly if the driver loses attention...only so much can be 'dialed out'...
as far as 3 wheeling specifically, though...that is a function of the type of suspension, its stiffness, and most importantly...positive suspension travel...a road car with very long travel can keep all 4 wheels on the road in any cornering situation...as no matter how much the body rolls, the positive travel will push the tire back down onto the road...
in the case of the Fiesta ST and Mazda 2...3 wheeling is a fundamental problem of a torsion beam rear suspension...there is no independent positive suspension travel...because as 1 side loads up (negative travel), the other side is actually being compressed with it (also negative travel)...so not only is the Fiesta's body rolling to the side and compressing the outside suspension, its lifting the other side with it...and the beam prevents enough positive travel to compensate...
you still can get it in independent suspensions too...its just down to integrated shock/strut travel...in an IRS car, the sway bar attempts to do the same thing as the torsion beam, but the force from the sway bar shouldn't be enough to overcome the force of the spring pushing down on it...and it will do a better job of keeping that tire on the road...the fundamental advantage of an independent suspension is that while the outside is compressed under load...the inside can utilize more positive travel to keep everything on the ground
in either case though...its not something to really worry about from a road car perspective...3 wheels on the road IS overall a better set up than preventing that...as the preventative measures to keep the rear end square on the road most definitely would introduce a lot of understeer in the same corner...at the same speed...
you're also correct in that you shouldn't set up your own suspension (for racing) in regards to positive suspension travel...you do need some, but the suspension should be dialed in for the particular track to keep the car as flat as possible during hard cornering...but not so hard that it simply jumps bumps (which very quickly starts happening in very fast race cars)...We just watched a Fiesta ST on a track, with a stock suspension...thats a road car with a 'sport suspension' that is ok for occasional track use, but is clearly dialed in to absorb bumps across crappy roads...no perfectly tuned for a particular track...
Racebrewer
Member
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- Mazda, Mazda 2 Touring MT
Ford has always been vocal about the handling of their cars. I recall the "Hotchkiss" rear suspension used on their 1970's Pinto. BTW, the Hotchkiss suspension was a hot item during the Civil War on gun carriages towed behind horses.
Ford also had a demo day to show off the handling of the Fiesta when it was new. They had an autocross course set up with a bunch of competing cars. At least one of the competing cars was not allowed to be driven because Ford was afraid it would roll over. Yeah, right..........
John
Ford also had a demo day to show off the handling of the Fiesta when it was new. They had an autocross course set up with a bunch of competing cars. At least one of the competing cars was not allowed to be driven because Ford was afraid it would roll over. Yeah, right..........
John
ScorpioGTX1
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 GS M/T
Funny you should mention that. A while ago, Road & Track ran a test comparing the standard Firesta to the 2, and it handled significantly worse. The slalom run was more than 5mph slower for the Fiesta. The 2 even ran the 0-60 a few tenths quicker.
So glad I bought the 2 over the Fiesta.
Wall Of Death
Member
I completely agree with your Z31, I paid 15k otd for my 2 touring this summer when they were doing 0% financing. For another 10K I could do a full b spec 2 and have cash left over to to campaign the fkn thing!
better yet leave the 2 the way it is and buy a $2500 dollar miata spend the rest on upgrades and have a rwd track car and a 2 for the same price as the fiesta st.
car is cool just way over priced for how much car you get.
better yet leave the 2 the way it is and buy a $2500 dollar miata spend the rest on upgrades and have a rwd track car and a 2 for the same price as the fiesta st.
car is cool just way over priced for how much car you get.
