twiztedjeckel
Member
- :
- '04 SVT Focus
SpicyMSP said:
i bet you did didn't you(upbum)
Drifting Can you do it?
- Thread starter Daemos
- Start date
i bet you did didn't you(upbum)
HyundaiGuy
Member
Possible
Its basically impossible to do a convential drift with a FWD car. On entrance of the turn, you turn the wheels towards the corner and then turn them back outwards, facing away from the corner, that way all the wheels slide in harmony. But the opposite is true in FWD car. If you try to turn the wheels in the opposite direction of the corner and you are putting all your power down to your front wheels, you'll basically just push yourself in a circle and a) kill yourself or b) **** up your car nice and good. The only way drift in a FWD car is to control the understeer with the brakes (left foot braking drift) Oversteering does not help you for all the idiots who said you "oversteer" to drift. Oversteer makes you 'plow' and basically your car follows the path of the weight, which is not good. Hitting the brakes will you give you mild-oversteer and pulling the hand-brake slightly up throughout the turn several times will allow you to get the same effect in a FWD car as in a RWD or AWD car without using the wheels to slide sideways in conjunction with the back wheels. Its completely possible to drift in a FWD car but the conventions involved during drift are completely different than drifting in a RWD or AWD car, where tire 'slide' and the shifting of the weight during turn-in allow you to drift without "powersliding" or "left foot brake drifting". Its pretty simple. Anyone who knows their s*** will tell you the same thing. And anyone who thinks FWD drifts are impossible, well, your just an idiot.
Its basically impossible to do a convential drift with a FWD car. On entrance of the turn, you turn the wheels towards the corner and then turn them back outwards, facing away from the corner, that way all the wheels slide in harmony. But the opposite is true in FWD car. If you try to turn the wheels in the opposite direction of the corner and you are putting all your power down to your front wheels, you'll basically just push yourself in a circle and a) kill yourself or b) **** up your car nice and good. The only way drift in a FWD car is to control the understeer with the brakes (left foot braking drift) Oversteering does not help you for all the idiots who said you "oversteer" to drift. Oversteer makes you 'plow' and basically your car follows the path of the weight, which is not good. Hitting the brakes will you give you mild-oversteer and pulling the hand-brake slightly up throughout the turn several times will allow you to get the same effect in a FWD car as in a RWD or AWD car without using the wheels to slide sideways in conjunction with the back wheels. Its completely possible to drift in a FWD car but the conventions involved during drift are completely different than drifting in a RWD or AWD car, where tire 'slide' and the shifting of the weight during turn-in allow you to drift without "powersliding" or "left foot brake drifting". Its pretty simple. Anyone who knows their s*** will tell you the same thing. And anyone who thinks FWD drifts are impossible, well, your just an idiot.
dude take a turn nice and fast and see what happens, the forward motion from the car will push the tail end of your car out but if you know what you are doing you will stop turning hard into the turn and effectively drift without throwing yourself into a spin. Its a little more difficult to do than say but thats the practical way of saying it. And its not just throwing out the tail in the turn, the whole car is sliding horizontally, and there is a difference between that and power sliding, drifting like I said before is keeping your wheels spining through out the turn
Riiiight. Find some information about racing lines. I;m sure you'll be suprised by terms line slow in fast out. Try reading the inforamtion posted at http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/ No. That's not how you initiate a drift. You approach the corner much slower than you would if you were racing. You turn into the apex semi-abruptly and lift the throttle. This shifts the weight from the rear wheels to the front wheels. Since the rear wheels are unweighted the lose traction and the rear of the car rotates or slides. You control the drift with the throttle. If you're rotating too much you apply the throttle to shift the weight back to the rear to get more traction.
The steering inputs are to adjust the attitude of the car, not to violently break the car loose.
You actually have that ass backwards.
Understeer is the plowing or "not steering enough"
Oversteer is the car rotating or "steering too much"
Left foot braking is a way to induce oversteer.
It depends when you apply the brakes. Hitting the brakes mid corner could cause something much more drastic than "mild-oversteer". The hand brake locks the rear wheels causing them to loose traction. It's usually used is slippery conditions to avoid flatspotting the tires.
HADA 11 said:
You can maintain a racing line while drifting and yes I know about slow in fast out...Ive seen races where fools have drifted corners and smoked people in times, but thats on multiple turns in a row.
We can drift around turns but its not really considered drifting:
"With a front wheel drive both the power and countering wheels are up front so it eliminates the possibilty of drifting grouped turns. A demonstration would be taking a rwd car and finding an open parking lot. Get up to a good speed and then just yank the steering wheel back and forth and you will start fishtailing. This can not be done with a ff and and drifitng is almost like fishtailing around turns. Of course this doesn't mean that you can't take your ff and throw it around turns because you can. Dave of Slide Squad does it pretty successfully with his Civic but the fact of the matter is that it's not drifting. A term that has become pretty popularized from the Velocity BBS is ass dragging."
redmption,
Post a link to your sources. I really need to learn about slide squad.
Are you confusing slip angle with drifting? I cannot imagine a circumstance where drifting around a corner would be faster than driving a racing line. I realize you could drift following the same path as a racing line, but that's not the same as driving the line.
Slipping and sliding is not the right way around a racetrack.
Post a link to your sources. I really need to learn about slide squad.
Are you confusing slip angle with drifting? I cannot imagine a circumstance where drifting around a corner would be faster than driving a racing line. I realize you could drift following the same path as a racing line, but that's not the same as driving the line.
Slipping and sliding is not the right way around a racetrack.
the_glassman
Member
Wicked cool video, to bad its down.spoolinmp3 said:
Can anyone host it or send it to me???
the_glassman
Member
(stupid)HADA 11 said:
It's simple Drifting is not the fastest way around the track, PERIOD! Though it is the coolest looking.
If you want the best times try grip driving.
DistantTea
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed... of DOOM!
Which drifting?
I'm confused here. All cars can drift. Drifting is part of racing. I'm not talking about Initial D japanese downhill drifting, I'm talking Skip Barber "Going Faster" drifting.
So are we talking Initial D style big slide stupid ass drifting? Or racing line drifting?
A FWD car shouldn't be doing Initial D style big slide stupid ass drifting. But then again that style is really more art than motorsports... I've seen integra Type Rs do it with quite a bit of style, especially that regular driver from Best Motoring. But for the most part you end up slowing quite a bit and look stupid as your oversteer quickly translates to massive understeer and you do the wobble wobble dance of shame trying to get back in control. Can you make it look like you are doing it? Sure, the japanese make civics look like silvias on the track all the time, but its not a powerslide for sure... it is a drift though.
Drifting during a race is a mechanical neccessity of the sport. The disapointing thing about it for the ricerboys is a racing line drift is completely unnoticed by anyone but the driver. Your fastest acceleration is found right at the index where your tires start to slip, your quickest braking is found right at the index where your tires start to skid, and your fastest turn will be found on that narrow region right where you've exceeded your maximum slip angle for your tires.
Watch the speed world challenge... bunches of Touring cars, lots of them FWD, running up on their late apexes, rotating the car just ever so noticable, then pushing the car's tail out to correct the line. Typically this kind of drift is only at higher speeds.
Regardless of what you want to call it, the technical definition is drifting for both the racing method using slip angles and the ever so popular stupid ass initial D "my car is now part of your front yard" drift.
I highly reccommend the books, Secrets of Autocross (to teach the basics of car control and racing lines in easy preschool fasion) and Skip Barbers Going Faster, easily one of the best racing books ever written.
I'm confused here. All cars can drift. Drifting is part of racing. I'm not talking about Initial D japanese downhill drifting, I'm talking Skip Barber "Going Faster" drifting.
So are we talking Initial D style big slide stupid ass drifting? Or racing line drifting?
A FWD car shouldn't be doing Initial D style big slide stupid ass drifting. But then again that style is really more art than motorsports... I've seen integra Type Rs do it with quite a bit of style, especially that regular driver from Best Motoring. But for the most part you end up slowing quite a bit and look stupid as your oversteer quickly translates to massive understeer and you do the wobble wobble dance of shame trying to get back in control. Can you make it look like you are doing it? Sure, the japanese make civics look like silvias on the track all the time, but its not a powerslide for sure... it is a drift though.
Drifting during a race is a mechanical neccessity of the sport. The disapointing thing about it for the ricerboys is a racing line drift is completely unnoticed by anyone but the driver. Your fastest acceleration is found right at the index where your tires start to slip, your quickest braking is found right at the index where your tires start to skid, and your fastest turn will be found on that narrow region right where you've exceeded your maximum slip angle for your tires.
Watch the speed world challenge... bunches of Touring cars, lots of them FWD, running up on their late apexes, rotating the car just ever so noticable, then pushing the car's tail out to correct the line. Typically this kind of drift is only at higher speeds.
Regardless of what you want to call it, the technical definition is drifting for both the racing method using slip angles and the ever so popular stupid ass initial D "my car is now part of your front yard" drift.
I highly reccommend the books, Secrets of Autocross (to teach the basics of car control and racing lines in easy preschool fasion) and Skip Barbers Going Faster, easily one of the best racing books ever written.
twiztedjeckel
Member
- :
- '04 SVT Focus
i like going back through all the drift video's and seeing all those amazing FWD cars in action drifting
by the way. Nice Job Glassman drifting that corner in the picture i posted above. talk about fun
by the way. Nice Job Glassman drifting that corner in the picture i posted above. talk about fun
HADA 11 said:
You approach the corner much slower than you would if you were racing. You turn into the apex semi-abruptly and lift the throttle. This shifts the weight from the rear wheels to the front wheels. Since the rear wheels are unweighted the lose traction and the rear of the car rotates or slides. You control the drift with the throttle. If you're rotating too much you apply the throttle to shift the weight back to the rear to get more traction.
The steering inputs are to adjust the attitude of the car, not to violently break the car loose.
You actually have that ass backwards.
Understeer is the plowing or "not steering enough"
Oversteer is the car rotating or "steering too much"
Left foot braking is a way to induce oversteer.
It depends when you apply the brakes. Hitting the brakes mid corner could cause something much more drastic than "mild-oversteer". The hand brake locks the rear wheels causing them to loose traction. It's usually used is slippery conditions to avoid flatspotting the tires.
Bingo,
You said it.
AFaceInTheCrowd
Member
- :
- 2010 Subaru Legacy GT
so wtf ::wtf:: can we drift or not. a real drift, not no powerslide. (this is the second time in my life i have asked this question)
Drifting is for RWD cars, yes we can simulate what looks like a drive in a FWD car but it is much less fun. I find it much easier to drift a RWD car than a FWD... and controlling it is much easier since you are using your foot to control most of the traction.
In a FWD, once you get sideways your foot stays on the floor and you try to return the car to a neutral position. With some cars with a good amount of power and stiff rear suspension you can vary throttle input to control the slide a slight bit.
In a RWD, once you get sideways your foot can vary anywhere to control the limit of adhesion (depending on weather/surface conditions) and you use slight steering corrections to point the nose where you want it.
Instead of popping the clutch or gassing it hard while dropping a gear to put a RWD car into a drift, in a FWD you have to carry a lot of speed or make sudden jerky movements on the steering wheel.........or ...... use the e-brake (although I've seen plenty of professional drifters in RWD cars using the e-brake) to get rotation to occur. This can be very dangerous if you aren't in total control prior to using it.
Overall lesson, our cars weren't made to drift..... don't try it on the street. Learn your car on the track, and buy a silvia if you want to drift
In a FWD, once you get sideways your foot stays on the floor and you try to return the car to a neutral position. With some cars with a good amount of power and stiff rear suspension you can vary throttle input to control the slide a slight bit.
In a RWD, once you get sideways your foot can vary anywhere to control the limit of adhesion (depending on weather/surface conditions) and you use slight steering corrections to point the nose where you want it.
Instead of popping the clutch or gassing it hard while dropping a gear to put a RWD car into a drift, in a FWD you have to carry a lot of speed or make sudden jerky movements on the steering wheel.........or ...... use the e-brake (although I've seen plenty of professional drifters in RWD cars using the e-brake) to get rotation to occur. This can be very dangerous if you aren't in total control prior to using it.
Overall lesson, our cars weren't made to drift..... don't try it on the street. Learn your car on the track, and buy a silvia if you want to drift
AFaceInTheCrowd
Member
- :
- 2010 Subaru Legacy GT
thank you turboge. now, after being disappointed for the SECOND time, i go drive my car.
For the 3rd friggin time.
YES IT IS POSSIBLE TO DRIFT IN A FWD CAR!
And by drift I mean all 4 wheels sliding and the driver controlling the car via the throttle and steering inputs. Not a slight drift either, a sustaind drift with the car sliding about 45 degrees off line.
It isn't practicle to use a FWD car for "drifting" but that doesn't mean it impossible. I don't understand what torboage means by "simulating a drift". Either you are drifting, or you are not.
I can't believe what passes as tech on this board.
YES IT IS POSSIBLE TO DRIFT IN A FWD CAR!
And by drift I mean all 4 wheels sliding and the driver controlling the car via the throttle and steering inputs. Not a slight drift either, a sustaind drift with the car sliding about 45 degrees off line.
It isn't practicle to use a FWD car for "drifting" but that doesn't mean it impossible. I don't understand what torboage means by "simulating a drift". Either you are drifting, or you are not.
I can't believe what passes as tech on this board.
HADA 11 said:
Never said it wasn't possible. Just takes the right setup.
Well, from all the drifting i've seen, at least 2 of the wheels have traction. How are you supposed to control a car without something gripping the road?
Not really, go watch some real drifting videos, if you look....all of them are RWD, although some are 4WD(skyline) but we all know that a skyline is mainly RWD until you "drift". That is REAL drifting.
I've yet to see some real hardcore FWD drifting like that, you know why? Because front wheels spin and are for steering input, the rear wheels only follow. If you lose control of the front wheels you are understeering, if you lose control of the rears you are oversteering.
And are you the resident technician?
soundbombing
Member
can't we all just get along
drifting and racing is all about fun. I've been out experimenting with my car and love it no matter what.
I'm going to be doing a time trial rally style race next.
Drifting is getting really big in the US and is going to blow up more with shows like the driftshowoff. Since most of this is all new to everyone we should have a FAQ with info backed by experience and facts.
Some will probably beat me to making a FAQ but I'll try if no one does.
Hopefully I will be trying touge next ... anyone? anyone? there is a good site out there with a detailed explantion. I'll try to find it.
You can guess what kind of car this is if you really have to.
still trying . . .
("small pic")
(large pic)
http://www.tercelounge.com/driftshowoff.jpg
drifting and racing is all about fun. I've been out experimenting with my car and love it no matter what.
I'm going to be doing a time trial rally style race next.
Drifting is getting really big in the US and is going to blow up more with shows like the driftshowoff. Since most of this is all new to everyone we should have a FAQ with info backed by experience and facts.
Some will probably beat me to making a FAQ but I'll try if no one does.
Hopefully I will be trying touge next ... anyone? anyone? there is a good site out there with a detailed explantion. I'll try to find it.
You can guess what kind of car this is if you really have to.
still trying . . .
("small pic")
(large pic)
http://www.tercelounge.com/driftshowoff.jpg
AFaceInTheCrowd
Member
- :
- 2010 Subaru Legacy GT
damn... thats hardcore. i don't wanna say too much cuz i don't like pissing ppl off. i'm talking about turboge btw.
Last edited:
While a stiffer rear suspension certainly helps the car rotate , you don't specifically need a special set up to get the car to drift. My Integra was stock when I was doing Solo 1 and I could get it to slip and slide all over the place when and if I wanted to.
While you're drifting you've gone beyond the traction limits of the tires. All 4 wheels have lost grip to some extent, you're in a controlled slide. You actually have very little conrol of the car mid drift. What little influence you have you modulate through the throttle and small steering inputs.
The drift isn't controlled as much as it is set up. You simply enter the corner at a speed that lets you carry enough momentum to carry the drift through the corner without having so much speed that you go off on the outside of the turn. Once you've committed to the turn there's very little you can do mid-corner to corret for a bad entry. My previous post explains how to initiate the actual drift.
Keep in mind that a drift is simply the name given to a car in a controlled slide. It isn't some kind of mysterious skill that only certain people have. You certainly don't need a special car to do it.
I've seen a couple of drifting videos. I'm really not interested in watching anymore. I don't feel I need to watch the videos to understand what a drift is or how to do it as I've actually driven a car and done it. I'm still not sure what you mean by real drifting. The Civic in soundbombing's post looks like its really drifting to me.
In any car all 4 wheels are spinning as long as the car is moving. All cars have front wheels that spin and are for steering input. The rear wheels always follow the front wheels unless you're driving in reverse. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
The physics acting on the car obviously change from FWD to RWD that's why RWD makes for a better racecar. But the manner in which you control the car is very similar from FWD to RWD as you're shifting weight fore and aft to give or take traction from the tires. RWD is simply more efficient as youre shifting the weight over the drive wheels when you apply throttle.
No. But I can back up my statements with facts. I can explain the physiscs acting on the car in motion of I have to. I consider tech to be an answer to a technical question that can be backed up with facts, not hearsay and opinion.
Have a look at one of your earlier posts;
That information is not accurate and cannot be backed up with facts.
Some kid reading this thread might go out and start "popping the clutch or gassing it hard" (whatever that means) or try to "carry a lot of speed or make sudden jerky movements on the steering wheel.........or ...... use the e-brake".
That simply isn't the right way to do it. It's bad information.
I'm not flaming you. I'm just trying to provide some accurate information.
