CX-5 Tapping noise

[Jack Rabbit]

Ok. Engine has been making noise for some time now. Indy mechanic last year said its just injectors. Took to dealer last year to have whole car checked out and said check the engine for any problems, especially cracked cylinder head. Vocally mentioned the sound and was told it's the injectors. They had the vehicle and heard it running.

I usually jump in my car and startup and then drive.

So today, while checking the brakes, left vehicle idling to go get my wheelchocks, and heard this from 60 feet away.

Sure sounds like the valves to me.

Also if you listen you can hear both the injectors clicking but you can also hear the tapping noise.

And it hasn't thrown any engine related codes.

Any opinions?
Lifters, HLA's or injectors ???
Thanks.

 

[ceric]

I am inclined to guess that it is the lifters.
Injectors make some noise, but not this loud.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

I am inclined to guess that it is the lifters.
Injectors make some noise, but not this loud.

Yeah. Thanks Ceric. I couldnt believe how loud it is. Between that and the fuel dilution, it's doesnt look good. Gonna make appt. with dealer and get local mechanic opinion until get it to dealer.

 

[Tchman2016]

Jack, does the noise quiet down when engine is warmed up or is constant whether a cold start or engine warm? I forget if our engines have hydraulic lifters but if they are the kind that need adjustment (hydraulic lifters do not need adjustment) then that is the noise you will hear when it is really cold out and engine just started until warmed up when it should go away. If noise does not go away when warm then definitely something very wrong with the lifters or rockers. Could even be a bent valve perhaps. Hope that helps

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Jack, does the noise quiet down when engine is warmed up or is constant whether a cold start or engine warm? I forget if our engines have hydraulic lifters but if they are the kind that need adjustment then that is the noise you will hear when it is really cold out and engine just started until warmed up when it should go away. If noise does not go away when warm then definitely something very wrong with the lifters or rockers. Could even be a bent valve perhaps. Hope that helps

It's been cold out. It only ran for 5 to 10 minutes today. Ill have to listen after the drive to work this week. Thanks for the help. Went to get my wheelchocks in the garage( which is 60 feet away) and could hear it tapping and was like WTF.

 

[Tchman2016]

It's been cold out. It only ran for 5 to 10 minutes today. Ill have to listen after the drive to work this week. Thanks for the help. Went to get my wheelchocks in the garage( which is 60 feet away) and could hear it tapping and was like WTF.

Anytime! I'd definitely say that tap is NOT just the high pressure injection system. Crazy loud on your video. Definitely let us know how it sounds when you cold start and then drive for a while.

 

[HyFlyer]

Dang! My diesel doesn't make that much racket! I even consider my "diesel sounds" pleasing but that ^^^ is harsh sounding.

If Mazda says that sounds normal, would any other 2.5 Mazda motor on the lot sound like that as well? I would think not.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Dang! My diesel doesn't make that much racket! I even consider my "diesel sounds" pleasing but that ^^^ is harsh sounding.

If Mazda says that sounds normal, would any other 2.5 Mazda motor on the lot sound like that as well? I would think not.

Yep. Wasn't quite that bad
6 months ago when they changed the oil, etc. but it was making noise, more so than any car ive owned. Unless the fuel injectors were bad and dumping too much fuel, hence the fuel dilution on most recent UOA report. But that should have coded. Maybe something else is going wrong now. But other than fuel dilution, the UOA looks good and the car hasn't coded any engine problems yet. I dont understand how you can't have any codes with that racket. Unless they(dealer) turned the OBD off???
<Me just being sarcastic>

 

[Jmaz]

Yep. Wasn't quite that bad
6 months ago when they changed the oil, etc. but it was making noise, more so than any car ive owned. Unless the fuel injectors were bad and dumping too much fuel, hence the fuel dilution on most recent UOA report. Maybe something else is going wrong now.

That sounds like lifters to me and on your video sound pretty loud, like the lifters aren't pumping up.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

That sounds like lifters to me and on your video sound pretty loud, like the lifters aren't pumping up.

Thanks JMAZ. Thats what I thought when I heard that today. Over the past six months people kept saying injectors.
Im gonna have to document this time to Mazda corporate in email concerning the tapping. At some point, its recently gotten worse.
This engines only 4 years old with regular oil changes. 3 year carfax maintenance record of previous owners dealership oil changes plus 3 oil changes over past 1.5 years since i've owned.

Also if the lifters weren't pumping, in essence low oil pressure then that should have thrown a code, right ? but didn't...??

I'm just wondering why nothing's coding.

 

[jofo67]

If that was my vehicle, I would not even drive it. If you do not build up enough oil pressure to quiet it down within literally a few seconds of starting it, then I would be afraid of further damaging whatever it is that is starving for lube. Not good in any way, shape or form.

 

[jofo67]

I would not rule out a spun bearing either.

 

[edmaz]

... Also if the lifters weren't pumping, in essence low oil pressure then that should have thrown a code, right ? but didn't...?? ....

Low oil pressure alone isn't going to set an OBD code, but would set the idiot oil light on, if it gets down far enough to reach the setpoint of the oil pressure sensor. If the low pressure affected VVT, then one of those codes (or a timing-related code) MIGHT be set, but nothing certain about that happening. I'm not aware of any reports of low oil pressure issues on our vehicles, but you can get a definitive answer about that possibility, from a simple mechanical oil pressure test.

However, there is the collection of 'air bubble' TSBs, which describes the most likely culprit for lifter noise in our Skyactiv CD vehicles. But before getting into that subject, do you have any powertrain warranty left on this vehicle?

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Low oil pressure alone isn't going to set an OBD code, but would set the idiot oil light on, if it gets down far enough to reach the setpoint of the oil pressure sensor. If the low pressure affected VVT, then one of those codes (or a timing-related code) MIGHT be set, but nothing certain about that happening. I'm not aware of any reports of low oil pressure issues on our vehicles, but you can get a definitive answer about that possibility, from a simple mechanical oil pressure test.

However, there is the collection of 'air bubble' TSBs, which describes the most likely culprit for lifter noise in our Skyactiv CD vehicles. But before getting into that subject, do you have any powertrain warranty left on this vehicle?

Yep. Original PT til late 2023, CPO PT til 2025

 

[edmaz]

Yep. Original PT til late 2023, CPO PT til 2025

Lots of it remaining, which is great for you. Personally, with that much warranty left, I'd just sit back and relax, knowing they will have to fix anything that happens down the road for a long time. However, this appears to be weighing heavily on your mind, and there is one other thing you can try, if it's bothering you that much.

For the most part, AFA noise goes, it's going to be their call about what's 'normal' or not, but you can bring along the 'air bubbles' TSB below, and ask them to evaluate your vehicle for the specific noise issue that's described in that TSB. You're asking them to "Verify customer concern", as indicated in the TSB.

Of course you'll need to be ok with them removing the valve cover to inspect the switchable HLAs, if they decide to take that diagnostic step described in the TSB. Your choice there, but aside from that, IMO there's nothing else you can do to force them to investigate the noise any further at this point. Being the provider of your warranty, they hold all of the high cards.

Air Bubbles TSB

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Lots of it remaining, which is great for you. Personally, with that much warranty left, I'd just sit back and relax, knowing they will have to fix anything that happens down the road for a long time. However, this appears to be weighing heavily on your mind, and there is one other thing you can try, if it's bothering you that much.

For the most part, AFA noise goes, it's going to be their call about what's 'normal' or not, but you can bring along the 'air bubbles' TSB below, and ask them to evaluate your vehicle for the specific noise issue that's described in that TSB. You're asking them to "Verify customer concern", as indicated in the TSB.

Of course you'll need to be ok with them removing the valve cover to inspect the switchable HLAs, if they decide to take that diagnostic step described in the TSB. Your choice there, but aside from that, IMO there's nothing else you can do to force them to investigate the noise any further at this point. Being the provider of your warranty, they hold all of the high cards.

Air Bubbles TSB

Thanks Ed.

It wasn't as bad this morning and when got to local mechanic, it was calmed down. He said all he heard was the injectors. Just like you, he said they probably won't do anything... he said if i do take it in that to tell them it's an intermittent cold start tapping, drop the car off overnight so they have to start it cold, and that it might also help to show them the video.

If it's defective HLA's, is it possible they already damaged the engine and or will continued driving damage the engine?

I might have it looked at by dealer now just so it's on record.

I would hope that if they replace the HLA's and see other engine damage that they would repair/replace the engine.

Only way to know for sure is take the valve cover off myself. I've replaced valve cover gaskets on 12 yr old vehicles but would removing the cover on this vehicle void the warranty??

 

[edmaz]

....
If it's defective HLA's, is it possible they already damaged the engine and or will continued driving damage the engine? ....

Although there's been almost no data about that so far, we did get the recent thread posted by @Trzebs, which indicates that SOMETHING else happend to cylinder #4 on his vehicle, beyond just the bad switchable HLA. Nothing further from him relative to what that something actually turned out to be however.

... I might have it looked at by dealer now just so it's on record. ...

Certainly always a good idea to get anything like this recorded by Mazda.

... Only way to know for sure is take the valve cover off myself. I've replaced valve cover gaskets on 12 yr old vehicles but would removing the cover on this vehicle void the warranty??

Given the amount of warranty you have remaining, I strongly advise against doing anything like that, for the foreseeable future anyway. Not questioning your DIY capabilities, but doing that valve cover removal and inspection would be a no-win proposition for you. Let's say you open it up and find one or more defective HLAs, and go to your dealer with that information. IMO, they will have every right to void your powertrain warranty on the spot, on the grounds that you tampered with the engine. I don't think you would have any chance of winning that court case, and probably very few lawyers would even want to take it on.

Aside from possibly trying the TSB idea, I recommend trying to relax a bit about the noise, and just monitor it over time. You have a huge advantage with the lengthy warranty, and it would really be the pits to do anything to mess that up.

 

[Jmaz]

Don't get too anxious and pull the valve cover to satisfy your curiosity. DO NOT give them a reason to deny a warranty fix. You have too much to lose by tampering with it.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Thanks Guys! Gonna leave it alone. And let them take it from here. Now gotta find that one missing oil reciept.

 

[sm1ke]

That is a very pronounced noise in your video, IMO. I would head down to the dealer and ask to start up one of the NA CX-5s on their lot/in the showroom, then record video of the dealer's car idling. Use the same camera, and record from the same position and distance away as the video in your OP. They will probably sound very different, which should be enough to prevent them from writing your concern off as something common.