CSRT4- MS3's arch nemesis? The new car *long post*

Donas64 said:
Someday, when Mazda stops making it's engines out of glass, we too will reap huge power gains and straight line speed. Until then, we will delight in handling and chassis feel!(rockon)
Click to expand...

As for me- I have my strut bar on already and have a set of Eibachs and Mopar Sway bars to get my handling g's into the .9 range. (second)
 
Lazer,
Congrats on the purchase. I thought about the CSRT when I traded the Speed, but really wanted to get back to RWD for a bit. I still have my MSRT8, but she's a garage queen in the winter. I miss my Speed often but damn, the sound of the stock intake on my 6.1 gets me everytime...& it's quick enough.
Depreciation? Jesus, mine was stickered @$43k & I paid $24k with only 13k on the odo & was absolutely mint.
My only problem now is constantly being looked at as if I'm a drug dealer. Damn profiling.
Regardless, much success with the new platform.
 
badmotorfinger said:
Lazer,
Congrats on the purchase. I thought about the CSRT when I traded the Speed, but really wanted to get back to RWD for a bit. I still have my MSRT8, but she's a garage queen in the winter. I miss my Speed often but damn, the sound of the stock intake on my 6.1 gets me everytime...& it's quick enough.
Depreciation? Jesus, mine was stickered @$43k & I paid $24k with only 13k on the odo & was absolutely mint.
My only problem now is constantly being looked at as if I'm a drug dealer. Damn profiling.
Regardless, much success with the new platform.
Click to expand...

Wow that's awesome- for the record the Magnum is my FAVORITE SRT8 car! I love that thing!

Btw, I now installed:
- MPx catted downpipe
- Needswings Intake
- MPx strut bar
- Mopar Sway bars
- Mopar Blow off plate
- AGP catch can
- AGP Billet Solid Engine mount (may remove- way too many vibrations)
- Lightweight Crank Pulley
- Pillar Pod with AEM wide-band, and Aeroforce Scan Gauge

So it's getting much better! Once I get my Mopar Stage 1 ECU it should REALLY wake up!
 
Not to threadjack (well, but it is, I guess) but there are a couple SRT6s in my area going for around $17K (advertised), in case anyone wants a rare, underrated fast coupe.
 
robin2660 said:
Not to threadjack (well, but it is, I guess) but there are a couple SRT6s in my area going for around $17K (advertised), in case anyone wants a rare, underrated fast coupe.
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Yep- best bang for the buck performance-wise. Pulley, intake, and tune and your touching or IN the 11's.
 
Not sure if anyone cares but I got my Mopar Stage 1 ECU installed today!

WOW- what a difference. I was worried my expectations would be too high as I keep hearing great things about it. It still impressed me none-the-less! The car feels like it's trying to tear it's front tires off! I can light the tires up in 2nd any time I mash the gas. The Mopar Blow Off Plate is much louder shifting at WOT too!

So far my throttle has been consistent at 87 (FINALLY!) and I'm seeing boost spiking as high as 15 for a split second and holding 14 taping slightly at redline.

I ran some tests using my Aeroforce Scangage and it reading:
0-60: 5.3 (spinning all the way through 1st)
1/8th Mile: 8.9 @ 83mph

Not nearly on pace with my SRT6 but not too bad considering it's got some major traction issues now.
 
Nice buy! Never been a big fan of the Calibers for style, but they sure had the power.
I used to be a tech for Chrysler. Got a chance to road test a few SRT6's for Pre delivery and those are mean cars. The supercharged engine ran circles around the stock one.
Good Pick!
 
I dunno... the Caliber looks like a mini-van to me. Too tall, too bulky to be a performance car. A fast car sure, but not a performer though. And saying that the MS3 isn't that great at handling is kinda BS. Didn't the MS3 post like 68 mph in the slalom?

From the Road & Track article comparing of the two cars head to head: By Shaun Bailey /October 13, 2009

"In everything but a straight line the Mazdaspeed3 cleans up with stellar performance, especially in the 700-ft. slalom. The SRT4 just can't rotate quickly. We tried it with the stability control on and off, but we couldn't make it slither any quicker through our cones."

the MS3 is almost 5 mph faster through the slalom by the way...

going fast in a straight line is cool and all, but I live in Maryland and the twisties are commonplace around here. And I will be spending very little time at the drag strip, so impress me somewhere other than power numbers.

All in all, I know that isn't a MS3 bashing op, but I'm just clearing the air about the MS3 not being a road carver, because it definitely holds it's own. I guess some people aren't satisfied until they get reinforcement that they are driving a car that doesn't suck.

well... I'm glad you enjoy your car... just not my cup of tea.
 
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I think the rationale is it's much easier/cheaper to make the Caliber handle better than it is to make the MS3 faster.
 
MS3inDC said:
I dunno... the Caliber looks like a mini-van to me. Too tall, too bulky to be a performance car. A fast car sure, but not a performer though. And saying that the MS3 isn't that great at handling is kinda BS. Didn't the MS3 post like 68 mph in the slalom?

From the Road & Track article comparing of the two cars head to head: By Shaun Bailey /October 13, 2009

"In everything but a straight line the Mazdaspeed3 cleans up with stellar performance, especially in the 700-ft. slalom. The SRT4 just can't rotate quickly. We tried it with the stability control on and off, but we couldn't make it slither any quicker through our cones."

the MS3 is almost 5 mph faster through the slalom by the way...

going fast in a straight line is cool and all, but I live in Maryland and the twisties are commonplace around here. And I will be spending very little time at the drag strip, so impress me somewhere other than power numbers.

All in all, I know that isn't a MS3 bashing op, but I'm just clearing the air about the MS3 not being a road carver, because it definitely holds it's own. I guess some people aren't satisfied until they get reinforcement that they are driving a car that doesn't suck.

well... I'm glad you enjoy your car... just not my cup of tea.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm losing track of the replies here but who said the MS3 wasn't good at handling? I definitely think stock for stock the MS3 has an advantage. However after my sways went on the SRT4 feels better in the turns than my MS3 ever did. However if you mod the MS3's suspension I'd presume it would take the lead again. Quite the slippery slope I suppose.



Donas64 said:
I think the rationale is it's much easier/cheaper to make the Caliber handle better than it is to make the MS3 faster.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. This is true with ANY car. The straight line speed/performance bottlenecks are always way more difficult and expensive to hurdle than exponentially improving handling performance.
 
The true measure of handling is really measured on the skid pad. Because you reinforce your cars suspension, generally you eliminate lateral rotation of the car. Because the lateral momentum of the vehicle is not expressed through rotation (leaning) your body, that is just floating mass in the driver's seat, feels the extra push against the seat bolstering. Often interpreted as "better feeling," but until those mods are tested on a skid pad there's really no telling if the handling got any better. For all you know you may have raised the traction limit of the car, but when it nears or passes the traction limit it may break loose more rabidly and unexpectedly.

For example, putting aftermarket rear sways on a S13 240SX actually makes the car handle worse. The car feels better, but breaks free at a lower side-load because there is not enough play for the suspension to soak up that extra lateral force. Sport Compact Car (I miss that mag) got their project S13 to top 1.0 g of lateral force by removing the rear sway all together. But lets be clear here, improving a cars performance does not always mean that something needs to be added, sometimes removing things are "mods" that make our cars perform better.

I wonder if there is anywhere normal people like us can throw our cars on a skid pad. That would be really beneficial to us. That way experiments with different set-ups could be tested in a controlled environment with easily established base-lines.

Sounds like you're well on your way though. I'm interested to see what lowering the center of gravity does to the CSRT4. Given that it's ride hight is kinda up there, how much suspension travel is allowed after lowering it? By lowering the car you shorten the distance that the mass of the vehicle has to travel side to side. I bet it would rotate much quicker. I mean, when it all comes down to it, thats the only real advantage that the MS3 has is its ride hight. I would focus on that more so than getting the CSRT4 to soak up lateral inertia. Keep us updated
 
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MS3inDC said:
The true measure of handling is really measured on the skid pad. Because you reinforce your cars suspension, generally you eliminate lateral rotation of the car. Because the lateral momentum of the vehicle is not expressed through rotation (leaning) your body, that is just floating mass in the driver's seat, feels the extra push against the seat bolstering. Often interpreted as "better feeling," but until those mods are tested on a skid pad there's really no telling if the handling got any better. For all you know you may have raised the traction limit of the car, but when it nears or passes the traction limit it may break loose more rabidly and unexpectedly.

For example, putting aftermarket rear sways on a S13 240SX actually makes the car handle worse. The car feels better, but breaks free at a lower side-load because there is not enough play for the suspension to soak up that extra lateral force. Sport Compact Car (I miss that mag) got their project S13 to top 1.0 g of lateral force by removing the rear sway all together. But lets be clear here, improving a cars performance does not always mean that something needs to be added, sometimes removing things are "mods" that make our cars perform better.

I wonder if there is anywhere normal people like us can throw our cars on a skid pad. That would be really beneficial to us. That way experiments with different set-ups could be tested in a controlled environment with easily established base-lines.

Sounds like you're well on your way though. I'm interested to see what lowering the center of gravity does to the CSRT4. Given that it's ride hight is kinda up there, how much suspension travel is allowed after lowering it? By lowering the car you shorten the distance that the mass of the vehicle has to travel side to side. I bet it would rotate much quicker. I mean, when it all comes down to it, thats the only real advantage that the MS3 has is its ride hight. I would focus on that more so than getting the CSRT4 to soak up lateral inertia. Keep us updated
Click to expand...

Thanks for the interesting and quite thought provoking post. Truth be told I don't know if it's performance in the "skid pad" is truly improved but it does indeed feel like it. I know my understeer is almost completely non-existent now and turns in much easier. I'm positive it's slalom performance is substantially better now.

I am planning on lowering it with some conservative (Eibach) springs but I may need adjustable end-links so the sways will be in harmony with the lower ride height.
 
Got the car dynoed today. I put down 293whp and 293wtq. A little disappointed as I was hoping to break the 300 mark for whp. Then again I don't even have my exhaust yet- only a catted dp. I'm hoping to end up around 400whp once all my mods are done. I have some more mods planned that will produce big power shortly!

Btw, heres the video (PS I'm the Red one):
http://www.vimeo.com/10337944
 
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