Cobb AP Discussion Thread

[keymaster]

I logged a run up the freeway ramp with my Dashhawk the other day, and got knock at each shift when I was on it. The load jumped up really high at each shift...not sure if I missed the shifts that badly (they didn't feel bad) or if that's just how it is, it was my first hard 0-60 log. The knock would peak up to 3.5 or so, and then go down a bit for the next couple of data points as the load dropped. I need to make a few more runs and do some analysis, which isn't simple here in Pasadena on the freeways.

On another note, I have a hypothetical question. I haven't plugged my AP in yet, but when I do I plan to reinstall the stock map that I have right now, and then use the AP as a data logger (it's better than the Dashhawk) to figure things out and decide what to do next. If I took it to a dealer like that, would they be able to tell I was using the AP, or would I have to unmarry the AP before going in? If I stay on the stock map it shouldn't void the warranty, at least in theory.

 

[zinger002]

I saw a spike of 15 one day when i let off the gas. It was -38 so i dont know what happened lol.


Can anyone give me an answer as to why my car seems to always be relearning the tune when not losing battery power. Its winter up in canada land so i would have a little guess but i want to be sure.
What i really notice is gas milage, when i drive to work i get like 18-19 mpg doing 100km/h. then 20 km's later when i get to do 110-120 i see about 23 mpg, by time i get through the city and back up to 110km/h i see 30 mpg as i am assuming the car has finally learned how to run optimally... but why would it be relearning? especially every time i restart the car. it happened when i got my dh mainly, thats also when winter started. i tried unpluging the dh and it still happened... so! does anyone have an answer please?

 

[Qwik6]

How do you know it is still learning?

 

[spec2k5]

I logged a run up the freeway ramp with my Dashhawk the other day, and got knock at each shift when I was on it. The load jumped up really high at each shift...not sure if I missed the shifts that badly (they didn't feel bad) or if that's just how it is, it was my first hard 0-60 log. The knock would peak up to 3.5 or so, and then go down a bit for the next couple of data points as the load dropped. I need to make a few more runs and do some analysis, which isn't simple here in Pasadena on the freeways.

On another note, I have a hypothetical question. I haven't plugged my AP in yet, but when I do I plan to reinstall the stock map that I have right now, and then use the AP as a data logger (it's better than the Dashhawk) to figure things out and decide what to do next. If I took it to a dealer like that, would they be able to tell I was using the AP, or would I have to unmarry the AP before going in? If I stay on the stock map it shouldn't void the warranty, at least in theory.

From what I understand, you have to uninstall the AP or they can tell you have it. Even if you are on stock map, if they can tell you have been messing with the tuning, they WILL void your warranty. Why chance it, uninstall if you are going to the dealer, then reinstall in the parking lot when you pick up the car.

 

[tunersteve]

I highly recommend that you totally uninstall the AP when taking the car in for any kind of service. Don't take a chance that might cost you a warranty in the process.

 

[79535]

On another note, I have a hypothetical question. I haven't plugged my AP in yet, but when I do I plan to reinstall the stock map that I have right now, and then use the AP as a data logger (it's better than the Dashhawk) to figure things out and decide what to do next. If I took it to a dealer like that, would they be able to tell I was using the AP, or would I have to unmarry the AP before going in? If I stay on the stock map it shouldn't void the warranty, at least in theory.

From what I recall, the AP program will prevent the dealership from flashing your ECU. Obviously, if they can't flash your ECU, something is either faulty or you have tampered with it. Again, that is just from my somewhat consistently, inconsistent memory

 

[MShreve]

I saw a spike of 15 one day when i let off the gas. It was -38 so i dont know what happened lol.


Can anyone give me an answer as to why my car seems to always be relearning the tune when not losing battery power. Its winter up in canada land so i would have a little guess but i want to be sure.
What i really notice is gas milage, when i drive to work i get like 18-19 mpg doing 100km/h. then 20 km's later when i get to do 110-120 i see about 23 mpg, by time i get through the city and back up to 110km/h i see 30 mpg as i am assuming the car has finally learned how to run optimally... but why would it be relearning? especially every time i restart the car. it happened when i got my dh mainly, thats also when winter started. i tried unpluging the dh and it still happened... so! does anyone have an answer please?

IIRC you can turn on the ignition, wait for ~20-30 seconds and watch the CEL indicator light. If it blinks 8 times the ECU is still learning, if it stays on solid then it's done learning.

 

[zinger002]

IIRC you can turn on the ignition, wait for ~20-30 seconds and watch the CEL indicator light. If it blinks 8 times the ECU is still learning, if it stays on solid then it's done learning.

Exactly. what other reason would there be for my car getting 19 mpg then like 40 km later getting 30 mpg going the same speed? i let my car warm up for about 5-7 minutes, just so the temp gauge moves a bit then i drive.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Exactly. what other reason would there be for my car getting 19 mpg then like 40 km later getting 30 mpg going the same speed? i let my car warm up for about 5-7 minutes, just so the temp gauge moves a bit then i drive.

What are you guys using to determine mpg? If you're looking at the AP or a DH to get instant or avg mpg, then you're wasting your time. The mpg calculators are woefully incorrect. I can adjust my DH to read within a few tenths of a mpg if I drive the exact same way for EVERY mile for an entire tank. If you do any WOT, heavy throttle, or even lots of downhill coasting the mpg calculations go out the window. The ONLY way to obtain even reasonably accurate mpg is to fill the tank and divide the galons into the miles traveled. Anything else is simply ballpark guessing.

 

[blacksin]

Hey guys... First post here.

Hey all,

I'm about to be a proud new owner of an '07 MS6 with 22K miles, and I'm doing some early research. I'm trading in my '04 Dodge SRT4 (stage 2 catless E1 turbo), so I've had some experience with turbo'd 4-cylinders. I've read through all 70 pages, and I've got a few basic questions. I'm getting an extended warranty, so I plan on keeping things close to stock - MSCAI and COBB AP is all I was considering. In MD, we have 93 octane + ethanol. I also currently have the Aerosport ScanGuage on my SRT4 that I'll be putting back on the MS6.

1) Is the MSCAI worth it with the AP, or should I just go with just the AP with the stock restrictive piping? I know the CAI opens up power, but I keep reading about "KR while cruising" and other issues with the beta flashes... Granted, most of the posts are about Stage 2 cars....

2) Obviously, I'll want the 93 octane Stage 1 + MSCAI version 1.02 on the mzdspd page if i go CAI. Has anyone had any issues with that tune? I read about the "nudge in 3rd" from a guy that also had a cat-back exhaust, but I didn't see any resolution... Will I need to recalibrate my MAF with these 2 upgrades? The SRT4 had a MAP sensor, so this is kinda new to me...

Thanks guys!

 

[Blendercloud]

My recommendation is to skip the MSCAI. They don't even make them anymore if I recall. Go with a Cobb SRI instead. Second, it will still perform just not optimally without recalibrating your MAF sensor. Any time you change the intake or turbo inlet pipe you're going to want to recalibrate it.

 

[tunersteve]

My recommendation is to skip the MSCAI. They don't even make them anymore if I recall. Go with a Cobb SRI instead. Second, it will still perform just not optimally without recalibrating your MAF sensor. Any time you change the intake or turbo inlet pipe you're going to want to recalibrate it.

I agree with Blender. You can still pick them up from dealers and vendors, but they were discontinued for a short time while MNAO looked over some potential issues. It's nothing more than a rebranded AEM intake, and the cost is there to show that.

After running both the CAI and the Cobb SRI, the SRI plays nicer with the AP. I've noticed a much smoother power delivery with the SRI and TIP since the install. I have yet to calibrate my MAF or change maps from when I was last running (Stage 2+ 93 v101e, not on mzdspd.com), but the car is strong with that map and sees very little igniton adjustment (read: knock retard) on the highway.

Many people get confused with seeing KR on part throttle applications where the car is merely making active adjustments to ignition to maximize fuel economy and reduce chances for actual (audible) knock. Talking with engineers familiar with the ECU and what it's doing, this is NORMAL. Should you feel the car hesitate or stutter or hear any audible knocking or pinging, immediately ease off the throttle and re-evaluate things with your AP.

 

[blacksin]

Thanks for the honest answers... I think I'll forgo the intake and just go AP for a while until I can get used to the new car and see if there are any internal issues before I start messing around. After a few thousand, I'll check out that COBB SRI.

Also, this is QFT:

Many people get confused with seeing KR on part throttle applications where the car is merely making active adjustments to ignition to maximize fuel economy and reduce chances for actual (audible) knock. Talking with engineers familiar with the ECU and what it's doing, this is NORMAL. Should you feel the car hesitate or stutter or hear any audible knocking or pinging, immediately ease off the throttle and re-evaluate things with your AP.

That's a very good point... there's a very big difference between actual pinging and retarding the timing due to efficiency.

I pick up the MS6 tomorrow! Gonna miss my SRT-4, but I was really impressed with the low-end torque of the MS6, and I need AWD to get through the winters since I work at a hospital... just gotta get used to the heavy steering.

Anyway, thanks for the responses.

 

[Blendercloud]

You're quite welcome! Enjoy the new car and welcome to the family.

 

[Blendercloud]

Forzda,

Have you adjusted the Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) tables in ATR for your map? I saw this post by LBV below and wanted to get your thoughts on this. It's something I'd never considered until now.

LBV's Post: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5074443&postcount=36

Blendercloud

 

[FORZDA 1]

Forzda,

Have you adjusted the Accelerator Pedal Position (APP) tables in ATR for your map? I saw this post by LBV below and wanted to get your thoughts on this. It's something I'd never considered until now.

LBV's Post: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5074443&postcount=36

Blendercloud

Yes, I have changed mine, but not drastically. I smoothed it a bit, but still not 1:1 like LBV did.

 

[Blendercloud]

Is there any other consideration necessary when altering those values? Does playing around with the APP tables require any tweaking to other tables?

 

[FORZDA 1]

Is there any other consideration necessary when altering those values? Does playing around with the APP tables require any tweaking to other tables?

No, you're free to play around all you want. The ECU responds to the RESULTs (TPS) after you're done tweaking the (PPS) ratio tables. You can make the pedal an on/off switch, bias the WOT out to the last 2mm of pedal movement, or completely linear (like LBV), or any way you want it, etc.

 

[Blendercloud]

I guess this is also really handy if you're not tall enough to push the pedal all the way to the floor! (drinks)

 

[tunersteve]

This is interesting, I might have to play with this on the weekend and do the MAF calibration as well.

Anyone have tips for doing the MAF calibration other than what's written in the manual?