Can Mazda detect reflashed ECU's?

[speed23]

a

 

[desperado-c]

I am wondering about this because I am about to buy the msd dashhawk(shows boost, air/fuel,etc.from obd2port). If I buy this, I have heard that when I "tune the car"I will need to go the reflash route (Cobb) insted of a piggyback like xede or cp-e because the piggyback tuners will modify the sensor readings and the dashhawk will show incorrect readings. If I go with a cobb reflash will mazda be able tell that it has been done? Can they read how much time or distance has passed since the last reflash? Is there a reflash counter? My dealer would use any excuse to void my warranty(otherwise I would just get boost,and a/f gauges and a piggyback ecu.)P.S. I am aware that accessport is not out for mazda yet, but does anyone have any insight into this?

Man, people have gone back and forth on this so much. FWIW, I think the most definitive statement was that they can tell the number of reflashes but not the content if you flash back to stock. You also need to distinguish b/t what the dealer techs can tell with their routine diagnostics and what the factory reps can tell when they hook up their laptops (alot).

What I took from it all is that if you have a very aggressive tune and blow an engine or something expensive, the factory reps will come in and might be able to find something to justify not honoring your warranty. But, if you're just talking about bringing it in for regular maintenance, it's very unlikely the reflash would ever come to light.

 

[Haltech]

Cobb... goodluck on that one...

 

[tru-boost]

Cobb... goodluck on that one...

whatever thats supposed to mean ?? cobb WILL be out soon.
but yes, the dealer can see when the car was last flashed. also every time your cars goes to the dealer, they will hook it up to see if there is a software update. if there is it gets installed. the problem will come if you have a cobb tune installed at that time. the dealer flash wont take. you will have to flash back to stock every time you go for work to be done. and even then they will see that the the ecu just got flashed.

 

[matsuda]

whatever thats supposed to mean ?? cobb WILL be out soon.
but yes, the dealer can see when the car was last flashed. also every time your cars goes to the dealer, they will hook it up to see if there is a software update. if there is it gets installed. the problem will come if you have a cobb tune installed at that time. the dealer flash wont take. you will have to flash back to stock every time you go for work to be done. and even then they will see that the the ecu just got flashed.

No sir.

The Ford IDS (Integrated Diagnostic Software) can only tell you whether an update is available or not, period.

 

[tru-boost]

it is not a ford based computed system. if it was, there would be tons of flash tools available by now.... fords are easy ! i am going by what cobb themselves have said on their forums on their site.... yes the dealer can see when the ecu was lasted updated.

 

[jaydubz]

Looks like Cobb does not employ the same tech that GIAC did with my ECU reflash on my MKV. The installed flash retained my stock parameters but also reset the flash counter each time to prevent any red flags from being raised.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Man, people have gone back and forth on this so much. FWIW, I think the most definitive statement was that they can tell the number of reflashes but not the content if you flash back to stock. You also need to distinguish b/t what the dealer techs can tell with their routine diagnostics and what the factory reps can tell when they hook up their laptops (alot).

What I took from it all is that if you have a very aggressive tune and blow an engine or something expensive, the factory reps will come in and might be able to find something to justify not honoring your warranty. But, if you're just talking about bringing it in for regular maintenance, it's very unlikely the reflash would ever come to light.

this is about the most honest statement made in this thread. all reflashes have "part numbers". mazda WDS machines can tell what flash is on there and when it was flashed by the part number. if you leave the Cobb flash on the computer when you go to a dealership with major problems, you will be asking for it. if you reflash back to stock or back to the saved prior flash, thats your best bet to avoid trouble.

i've worked in service at a dealer that was, among other marques, mazda and subaru. we saw plenty of cobb flashed WRXs come through the gates, and it was readily detectable. i've discussed the scenario to death and people are going to believe whatever they want to believe about the product they love the most so that's pretty much where i'll leave it. the fact that Cobb engineers themselves have said it is detectable should pretty nullify any debate on the matter, but I doubt thats going to happen.

the whole point of the argument is simple. if you modify your car, know what you are doing before you do it. if your car needs warranty repair and its been modified, cover all your bases before going to the dealer. take off the suspect parts, flash it back to stock, treat your service writer with a smile and unless you've REALLY fubar'ed the car you will be fine. these are simple common sense things to live by that an amazing number of people from all walks seem to forget. don't drive into the dealership with a laundry list of mods, a blown motor and a chip on your shoulder when you talk to the employees. they don't need to call Irvine or Hiroshima to void your warranty - if you give them reason, they'll do it. If they think they have reason, they'll try to do it. you can argue, you can say its illegal, you can say its not fair, you can get a lawyer and try your luck - or you could just take a few steps to ensure that they either have no reason (don't mod it) or have little reason (remove suspect mods and don't let the car look abused) to go after you. they're not going to look for ECU reflashes during an oil change. but if they think they have a reason to void your warranty, they'll call in the district rep and turn it to them. if that person wants to find a reason to void your warranty, they may try very hard to do so. don't give them that impetus.

and besides, if you mod the car extensively and blow it up, what right do you have to even demand that warranty take care of it? call me a goody goody, but to me thats taking responsibility. thats a hot topic of debate for another date.

 

[StealthWyvern]

I agree 100% ken

 

[Sierra117]

i've worked in service at a dealer that was, among other marques, mazda and subaru. we saw plenty of cobb flashed WRXs come through the gates, and it was readily detectable. i've discussed the scenario to death and people are going to believe whatever they want to believe about the product they love the most so that's pretty much where i'll leave it. the fact that Cobb engineers themselves have said it is detectable should pretty nullify any debate on the matter, but I doubt thats going to happen.

Thats the problem. Just as much brand loyalty in the aftermarket as there is anywhere else. You'll have fan boys pouring in, giving out false information to make their product look good. One of the guys I work with now used to be a service advisor at a Nissan dealership (you should hear his stories on what it was like when the occasional Skyline or SR20 swapped 240 came in), and I used to be one at a BMW dealership. We were talking about it, and agreed we thought it was funny when people tried to bring in obviously modified cars where the modification obviously caused the issue. 99% of the time it was because the installer did a bad job, but I digress. I love it when the fan boys try to prop something up (such as dealerships not being able to see Cobb flashes), and when people who have hard expierence come in and say otherwise, they get all pissy.

and besides, if you mod the car extensively and blow it up, what right do you have to even demand that warranty take care of it? call me a goody goody, but to me thats taking responsibility. thats a hot topic of debate for another date.

What? Personal responsibility? NEVAR!

 

[mazdaspeedjay]

I work for a mazda dealership as a tech the above are true to my knowledge. and the one above me i don't both with qoutes is really true. Look if you modify the car with basic bolt ons it's easier to hide aftermarket parts cause if you keep the stock stuff but half the time people don't both to disconnect wire ties and zip locks the right way they usually just rip them out to even though you put it back to stock i can still tell you've played with it. bottom line is this and this is how i do things. if the person in question is honest and brings their car in as is i don't automaticly void the warranty. i try to figure out if any of the parts cause the problem and if they do i tell the customer to put the car back to stock and or remove the part that started the problem and see what happens. if it still happens bring the car back as stock as possible and it'll make things easier trying to replace stuff under warranty and keep my bosses happy. Alot of people aren't like me and are a holes and automaticly void the warranty and screw you guys. Basicly do the right stuff and take your time on installs don't half ass stuff cause half ass just causes problems. take your time removing stuff like wiring harness holders ties downs zip ties connector holders etc. don't just rip it out cause it won't budge. When i see a guy trying to hide the fact that he modified his car and is being dishonest then i void it cause if they were just up front and honest in the first places it goes along way.

I'm seeing alot more dealerships showing alittle more leanency towards after market parts but i do still see those old school methods out there. I live and work in baltimore so if you're in my area hit me up i'll try to help you out. bottom line is just be straight and honest and see what happens call and ask questions before you go in to a dealership for work some will say no your warranty is void and some will say well it depends if the part/s is causing the problem. Bottom line is we as a shop and as techs make alot more money when you have to pay to fix it then if warranty pays me to it so they're always going to want customer pay over warranty except if their warranty scores are down and then they'll do what ever you want to your cr to get a good survey back. My most funny one was i was working as a VW tech at a dealer and this guy brought in a 1.8T GTi. He broke his engine mount and tried to say he didn't modify his car or drive it hard. Mean while the waste gate lines had been tampered with. he left the wiring harness in for his boost controller but no controller. had cross drilled rotors and ebc pads. the air box bracket was missing so it use to have a intake and BOV his pending CEL's and history had BOV codes from running a atmospheric BOV and not resurc like it should. And to top it off he disconnect the boost gauge line for his autometer gauge but the lines were left in the car and he forgot to take his boost gauge out of his ghetto cup holder. That guy made my day.

 

[matsuda]

it is not a ford based computed system. if it was, there would be tons of flash tools available by now.... fords are easy ! i am going by what cobb themselves have said on their forums on their site.... yes the dealer can see when the ecu was lasted updated.

WTH???

Mazda service departments use the Ford IDS system, which replaced the now obsolete WDS.

That is a fact so why would you claim otherwise?

 

[boost_me]

I agree 100% ken

church!

 

[Captain KRM P5]

WTH???

Mazda service departments use the Ford IDS system, which replaced the now obsolete WDS.

That is a fact so why would you claim otherwise?

dealerships use both systems still. the newer systems they use are not identical pound for pound to the ones that a ford dealer uses. do you work for mazda?

 

[matsuda]

dealerships use both systems still. the newer systems they use are not identical pound for pound to the ones that a ford dealer uses. do you work for mazda?

The WDS is no longer supported so there haven't been any updates since 2006.

The IDS system used by Ford and Mazda dealerships are 100% identical for both the hardware and software. Database updates to the IDS system apply to both Ford and Mazda vehicles. In other words, an IDS system at a Ford dealership has exactly the same functionality as an IDS system at a Mazda dealership.

As far as working for Mazda is concerned, let's just say that I have some good connections.

 

[desperado-c]

The WDS is no longer supported so there haven't been any updates since 2006.

The IDS system used by Ford and Mazda dealerships are 100% identical for both the hardware and software. Database updates to the IDS system apply to both Ford and Mazda vehicles. In other words, an IDS system at a Ford dealership has exactly the same functionality as an IDS system at a Mazda dealership.

As far as working for Mazda is concerned, let's just say that I have some good connections.

Work for Mazda? He's obviously the heir apparent to the Matsuda Kabushiki-gaisha (that's Mazda Motor Corp to you, gaikokujin) fortune.

 

[tru-boost]

ok, so the scan software is the same but the ecu types are not ?? is that correct ? from what i hear the mazda ecu's are a PITA to mod. ford on the other hand, you have about 20 options for ecu tuning. there are chips and flash tools all over for the new fords. but for mazda, we are left with a piggyback being the "best" option. for now at least.