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[LovinMyMS3]

It's people like this that make forums an undesireable place to look for info. If you feel like you're wasting your time, click the "back" button and look elseware. I was on this forum years ago and people like you weren't around. It saddens me to know that things have changed.

Anyway, thanks for the informed opinions guys. I'm still mulling it over.

Actually I've been here a lot longer than you. You're not looking for info. You're looking for people to hand feed you since you can't look for yourself. I just got tired of the same crap from people to lazy to look up their own info so I left.

 

[Flagship]

Actually I've been here a lot longer than you. You're not looking for info. You're looking for people to hand feed you since you can't look for yourself. I just got tired of the same crap from people to lazy to look up their own info so I left.

You're right. I'm not looking for any info at all and I want to be hand fed. Now go away.

 

[JamesCH]

You mentioned being tall; I'm in the same boat. The Stang can feel pretty cramped at times.

My brother is 6'4" and liked the layout of my MS3 a lot (2cents)

 

[Flagship]

My brother is 6'4" and liked the layout of my MS3 a lot (2cents)

Damn you used to do Formula SAE? Badass. What school?

 

[JamesCH]

The Cooper Union

http://www.cooper.edu/organizations/professional/sae/index.html

Edit: I drove auto-x and endurance

 

[Flagship]

The Cooper Union

http://www.cooper.edu/organizations/professional/sae/index.html

Edit: I drove auto-x and endurance

That's really cool. AR doesn't have an FSAE program, college or otherwise. I'd be all over it if we did.

 

[JamesCH]

Start a team! That's what my friends and I did. If my little college of less than thousand can have a competitive team, anyone can.

/threadjack

 

[Flagship]

Start a team! That's what my friends and I did. If my little college of less than thousand can have a competitive team, anyone can.

/threadjack

Haha no threadjack here. The OP asked about it

I'm outta school now, so that's a no-go. I'm thinking about building a kart, though. I can compete in karting when I'm 60 if I want.

 

[Rix6]

I second the kart idea! I have been autocrossing in F125 shifter karts for about 8 years now. It is a complete blast! Karts handle much better and are more easy to drive fast than FSAE cars anyway.

 

[Flagship]

I second the kart idea! I have been autocrossing in F125 shifter karts for about 8 years now. It is a complete blast! Karts handle much better and are more easy to drive fast than FSAE cars anyway.

Oh damn, you're throwin punches now!

I'm tryin to live out my Formula 1 fantasies, man... in any way possible! Unfortunately, I got outta school recently so FSAE as a student is out of the question. And there's no FSAE courses in AR, so teaching is out of the question, too. Karting might be the only way for me to pretend that I'm Schumacher now...

 

[JamesCH]

I second the kart idea! I have been autocrossing in F125 shifter karts for about 8 years now. It is a complete blast! Karts handle much better and are more easy to drive fast than FSAE cars anyway.

(fuoops) Hehe.

Oh damn, you're throwin punches now!

Ow! Rix is hitting below the belt, and hard! In FSAE competitions the rules really limit the car in terms of performance, we have a 20mm intake restriction that really limits engine power. The best tuned teams get up to 85hp, most get around 70hp and the top-end of the engine (12,000RPM+) is almost useless. For SCCA you can take that restriction out and get double that power and a wider power band, think 140hp+ to 15,000RPM, or 18,000rpm for the Yahmaha RR. And we're already pushing 3sec 0-60 times with the restriction.

We also have a minimum ground clearance spec and minimum suspension travel spec to comply with, but again, for SCCA one could drop an FSAE car another inch or so and stiffen up the suspension significantly. Though it's hard to imagine a Kart handling better than the last FSAE car my team made... our suspension designer has a way of designing cars that tell the driver exactly what they want. Granted that is definitely not the case for all FSAE cars, I have seen some that were atrociously designed and made.

IIRC SCCA has a category for FSAE cars now as there are a number of teams and individuals who race them after their one legal FSAE season (you can only enter an FSAE car in FSAE races for 365 days from the first race they're in).

Of course having said all of that, a shifter Kart would be cheaper to buy and maintain, if you don't mind looking a little goofy .

 

[Rix6]

James,

Please don't take what I said in a negative way. I love the FSAE program. It is a fantastic way for young people to get hands on experience with racing technology. I helped the UMR guys with their FSAE car and it was great. I drove their car on an autocross course and provided feedback on the cars performance. The power is fantastic!

But for an individual, even if you could buy an "expired" FSAE car, you would be better off with a shifter kart. The kart industry has had years to fine tune their chassis and upgraded / replacement parts are readily available & reasonably priced. As far as driving, the FSAE is slightly faster in terms of acceleration but the handling will never match the shifter karts for a number of reasons including rules and restrictions on the suspension plus the fact that their are limited resources available for design and testing of the FSAE cars.

Have you driven a shifter kart? Properly setup, their is nothing that can match its cornering capabilities. I say this having driven almost every kind of racing vehicle you can imagine all the way up to A-Mod race cars.

Anyway, its all good stuff and I didn't mean to bruise your ego.

 

[JamesCH]

Haha, I only meant my statements in jest, of course. Karts and FSAE are apples and oranges.

I have been looking to get something that get me my adrenaline fix without breaking my wallet now that I've graduated, I might have to look into a Kart myself. Though the lack of any crash structure does scare me a bit.

 

[Flagship]

Haha, I only meant my statements in jest, of course. Karts and FSAE are apples and oranges.

I have been looking to get something that get me my adrenaline fix without breaking my wallet now that I've graduated, I might have to look into a Kart myself. Though the lack of any crash structure does scare me a bit.

I'm putting a couple of guys together as we speak to build a kart. I'm worried about the lack of a roll structure, too. My dad knew a guy that died in a kart wreck way back. I'm trying to find the exact restrictions right now.

 

[Rix6]

That is why I race autocross. No worries about flips or crashes. The wheel to wheel racing is where you can get hurt in a kart.

 

[JamesCH]

That makes a lot of sense, ever seen wheel-to-wheel contact in F1? It's horrific. Unfortunately there's not a lot of Auto-x in my area, but there is a reasonable amount of time-attack which would scare me a bit...

Karts are cro-moly steel frames, so one could make a roll cage to bolt or weld on as long as it didn't stiffen up the frame too much, right?

 

[Flagship]

That makes a lot of sense, ever seen wheel-to-wheel contact in F1? It's horrific. Unfortunately there's not a lot of Auto-x in my area, but there is a reasonable amount of time-attack which would scare me a bit...

Karts are cro-moly steel frames, so one could make a roll cage to bolt or weld on as long as it didn't stiffen up the frame too much, right?

That's what I'm trying to figure out right now. It'd be nice to have that security. I'm guessing not just because I've never seen a competition kart with a roll cage.

I wonder if it's cool to have a roll bar, not a full cage.

 

[JamesCH]

A good solid roll bar would probably do the trick. In FSAE the spec is 1.00inx0.095in round steel tubing, which is pretty solid and can take a lot of sliding and grinding on pavement.

The trick would be designing attachment points that still allow the chassis to flex the way it needs to. I could sketch something up in SolidWorks for you if I had some rough dimensions.

 

[Rix6]

That makes a lot of sense, ever seen wheel-to-wheel contact in F1? It's horrific. Unfortunately there's not a lot of Auto-x in my area, but there is a reasonable amount of time-attack which would scare me a bit...

Karts are cro-moly steel frames, so one could make a roll cage to bolt or weld on as long as it didn't stiffen up the frame too much, right?

You could easily add a cage on, but anything added on the frame is going to ruin the handling of the kart. The frame is actually the suspension. You would not dream of welding something onto the coil spring of a car's suspension, right? For the same reasons, you don't want to add any additional structural members to the karts frame. It is a very delicate and complicated system, but in order for the kart to turn, the frame has to twist. Since there is no differential, caster in the front suspension lowers the inside tire and raises the outside tire as you turn. This action twists the frame as you turn the wheels, which then unloads the inside rear tire in order to allow the kart to turn. I have experimented with less caster angle and shorter front axle stubs and it doesn't take too much change to get the kart "out of wack" where you can turn the front wheels and the kart just keeps plowing straight ahead.

To fine tune the "suspension" of the kart, you can buy rear axles with different stiffness specs, longer or shorter wheel hubs, seat braces (which provide a more direct load path from the drivers mass to the rear axle bearings) and even seats with different stiffness ratings. These parts along with various settings such as front and rear ride height, front and rear wheel track, seat placement, caster and camber settings, and various choices for steering ackerman give you an infinite number of things to play with ( and theoretically optimize performance) but significantly altering the frame stiffness and / or bending modes would probably get you into an area that could not be compensated for by the limited adjustment ranges available.

 

[RC08MS3]

i had a 2000 GT, miss it, want to go back. this 4 banger turbo s*** is complicated and this one in particular is picky when it comes to tuning and parts. my advise, buy a comfy used reliable DD cheap and what you save on the car payment used to turn the stang into a project and make real power easy, cheaper and more practically.