Are we using true synthetic?

[mazpro]

I use Mobil 1 and try to change it at 5,000. it alway goes by another 500-700 miles till I change it. so usualy at 6k

 

[Protege52003]

I use Mobil 1 and try to change it at 5,000. it alway goes by another 500-700 miles till I change it. so usualy at 6k

I used to do this, but now it seems to be longer intervals.....7+ k and the oil still looks good. I do check it religiously and she is always good......

-R

 

[SciFiMan]

Chemistry student, eh? Can I get one of your professor's oil scrubbers at Autozone for $29.95? It's academic dude. You can spend that much on oil if you're a rich kid but you won't notice any performance difference in the seat of your pants. And unless you do a long-term lab study of two engines, carefully torn down and inspected before and after, and then run Mobile 1 (changed on time) and a $30/quart oil (never changed) for 100,000 real world miles, then internally inspect the engines again, well, you may notice a difference. But in either case the engine will be well within any wear tolerances for the mileage. Smokey had the luxury of rebuilding his expensive engines whenever he wanted to. Me, I have to let mine sit for 150K miles and then I just get a new car.

those are very good points, but the oils you listed are not started from scratch. A true synthetic as the site you gave says that synthetic oil is started from scratch and has no petroleum in it.

Here are a few signs of a true synthetic. The price per quart at the minimum will be $25.
Another thing about them is that you can run the car from time of purchase until it dies on the same oil put in at the first change (if its truely synthetic). A true synthetic oil has the ability to be cleaned. You can take the oil and "scrub" it as my professor likes to say and then put it back in the motor. Of course you change your oil filter too.

Smokey Unik wanted to prove a point (which he liked to do often) about oils. So he used the same synthetic oil throughout the entire season. (hes an old/dead nascar driver if you didnt know.)

So when you are looking at "fully synthetic" oils and it is 6-10 dollars a quart dont be fooled.

I mean i like the stuff thats out now. I personally use mobil one but i am going to get the real stuff for once to see how good it actually is, just because i want to try it.

 

[deaconfan34]

I said i would like to get the real stuff once to try it.

And if you run mobil 1 compared to the real thing its going to cause less friction and less resistance on the crank and all that fun stuff. I wouldnt see why using that wouldnt let you feel any difference. I mean your not making HP you are just "saving" it.

I mean i run mobil1 and i love it. I still change it every three thousand miles, and i know some of you are saying i dont need to change it until like 6k or plus but oh well. I just think that if you were to use that you could notice a little bit of a difference...not much but on a dyno i could deffinately see it showing up. And on full blown race cars like take formula one motors, if you were to use both on those motors i am sure that the real thing is going to do alot better than the mobil 1. OH well.

 

[goldstar]

those are very good points, but the oils you listed are not started from scratch. A true synthetic as the site you gave says that synthetic oil is started from scratch and has no petroleum in it.

Here are a few signs of a true synthetic. The price per quart at the minimum will be $25.
Another thing about them is that you can run the car from time of purchase until it dies on the same oil put in at the first change (if its truely synthetic). A true synthetic oil has the ability to be cleaned. You can take the oil and "scrub" it as my professor likes to say and then put it back in the motor. Of course you change your oil filter too.

So when you are looking at "fully synthetic" oils and it is 6-10 dollars a quart dont be fooled.

I mean i like the stuff thats out now. I personally use mobil one but i am going to get the real stuff for once to see how good it actually is, just because i want to try it.

If I correctly understand what you're saying, I don't believe that I agree with you. The true synthetic oils I listed are synthesized from either Group IV or Group V base stocks, the only two base stocks recognized as synthetic by the API. As such, they contain no petroleum constituents. As you put it, they are started from scratch with no petroleum in them. They are the real stuff.
Mobil 1 and Amsoil are derived from Group IV polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock
Red Line and Motul are derived from Group V Polyol ester base stock

The API recognizes three classes of petroleum base stocks, Groups I, II and III. Non-synthetic or mineral oils are generally derived from Groups I and II base stocks.

The class of oils called semi-synthetic are those that contain some synthsized hydrocarbons from Groups IV or V (very little) mixed with petroleum-based hydrocarbons (much more).

Finally, there is that class of oils that is labelled and sold as fully synthetic but in fact contains no synthesized hydrocarbons derived from PAO or Polyol ester. These oils are group III types formed by hydrocracking petroleum base stock molecules. This is how Castrol Syntec and probably Royal Purple are made. Hydrocracked oils are superior to mineral oils but they are not synthetic and lack some of the properties only found in synthetics.

My point is that the Four listed oils are fully synthetic but yes, as you say, there are synthetic oils that are much more expensive and have superior properties. However, I doubt very much that, aside from the astronomical cost, you would notice any difference in your engine compared with currently available true synthetic automotive oils. Hydrocracking mineral oils is an extremely expensive process but deriving synthetic oils from Group IV PAO's is even more expensive and sythesizing oils from Group V esters is the most expensive process of all. This is one reason why Red Line is more expensive than Mobil 1.

For a variety of reasons, oils synthesized from esters are superior to any other type of synthetic. If you're interested in the reasons for this, go to:
www.hatcocorporation.com/pages/about_esters.html
This will tell you more about the subject than you'll ever want to know. For the last 30 years, ester based synthetic oils have been the only oils used in gas turbine (jet) engines because, among other reasons, they can withstand 400 deg F temperatures without breaking down and can remain in the engines for extremely long lengths of time (sometimes years) before requiring change. Likewise, super automotive oils can and have been developed that can remain in the crankcase for virtually the life of the engine but at considerable cost. These super oils are not more "synthetic" than current automotive oils, they are just different in their construction. I also don't think there would be any performance advantage from these super oils since when it comes to friction reduction, modern true synthetic automotive oils already do an excellent job. Most of the performance advantage comes from switching from a mineral-based to a synthetic oil rather than a switch from one synthetic type to another.

In any case, I'm very happy to stay with Red Line oil, at least for the present.

 

[deaconfan34]

Tooshay, I pretty much got PWNT. not really i am just learning and i am glad you pointed this out to me. I think i am going to have to go with redline for now cause you know your oils and you approve it. Thanks for informing me of this in a nice way and not flaming me like most people on here would. you get rep

 

[goldstar]

deaconfan34, thanks for your kind words. I enjoyed having this discussion with you and I never flame or attack people who may disagree with me or have a differing viewpoint. Unless, of course, I am personally attacked myself. Then, being all too human, I'm afraid I reply in kind. Unfortunately, it seems that some people cannot disagree with you without at the same time attacking you for the beliefs or opinions you hold. Lately, I have been personally involved in two incidents of this nature on this Forum and I regret my role in both of them. I would much rather use the Forum for informational puposes than as a vehicle for hurling insults back and forth.

 

[damaster]

I have a couple of questions for goldstar and the other experts on this forum: I've been using Mobil1 5w30 and 10w30 since my first oil change on my 2002 Protege ES. I change my oil out every 10-12k KMs, and always use the Mazda OEM oil filter. My driving habits often entail pushing the engine beyond 5k RPMs. My last oil change was done at 74k KMs and this time I decided to try Red Line 10w30. I don't usually check my oil level between change intervals, but I decided to check it recently (at 78k KMs). The dipstick showed the oil level halfway between E and F, but I'm sure I filled it to F when I did my oil change (about 3.3-3.4 liters).

First question: is this normal that the oil level has gone down? My engine does not seem to be "burning" any oil as my exhaust fumes are normal. I don't recall ever checking the engine oil level between intervals when I was using Mobil 1, so not sure if this is an issue that has come up since switching to Red Line.

Second question: I've topped it up to the F line again, should I just switch out the oil?

Third question: Is 10-12k KMs too long for oil change intervals, especially in Canada? The oil is pretty dark when I drain it, but "pretty dark" is quite relative. If so, I'll make it a point to change it out every 6-8k KMs from now on.

Fourth question: I was gonna try switching to Royal Purple this next oil change since so many people seem to have great things to say about it and also because I'm concerned about the oil level dropping with Red Line. goldstar, why do you not recommend Royal Purple and highly recommend Red Line? Just curious.

Thanks

 

[deaconfan34]

well for one, every engine is going to burn some amount of oil no matter what. Since your motor has been used to the thicker oil and you just changed to synthetic it is very possible for it to burn a little more because the motor was broken in for a thicker oil. If your motor is very dark when you change it at 10 to 12k's i would recommend shortening that time a little bit, it never hurts to play it safe. thats just my opinion on the matter and thats what i would do. best of luck to ya

 

[damaster]

thanks deaconfan34. I've actually been using synthetic since day one as I said in my previous post:

been using Mobil1 5w30 and 10w30 since my first oil change on my 2002 Protege ES