77 Horsepower!

[kwiktsi]

OK, so you are saying that it is easier to squeeze more hp out of an already high HP motor that is near maxed out than it is to get it out of a highly detuned motor that is nowhere near it's peak potential? AGAIN- WTF is so hard to understand that YES, the ECU is untweakable (right now ) and YES, it is so god damn rich, it should be considered a pollution risk BUT- At the same time, if it is dumping XXX fuel regardelss of airflow, how is increasing the airflow NOT helping the Air/Fuel mixture??? Instead of pulling fuel electronically though, you are adding air mechanically... Arrgggghhh...... (bang) (bang) (bang) I picked this car to mod because I saw you guys needed help and I thought you, in return, were capable of being helped... Maybe I should have picked a car with a more knowledgeable following so I wouldn't have to deal with it. No offense to those of you out there who are knowledgeable or those who seek to LEARN something....
Joe
PS- How many 557 whp LT1 Z28's have you built, 487 whp Talons, 414 whp Jetta's, and a whole s*** load of tuned STOCK (aside from exhaust, air filter and boost) DSM's putting out 250 whp and up to base your knowledge on? I know the Z28 isn't comparable, but just proving I have been there, done that... You???

Less boost is only relitive to the volume of air being moved not to mention we aren't a high compression engine, only 9:1.

If this was an S2000 with a T4 these numbers would be believable. However!

ITS A GOD DAMN PROTEGE WITH A TOTALY UNTWEAKABLE ECU, A TINY TURBO CHARGE AND AVERAGE COMPRESSION!
NOT TO MENTION ONLY 140 WHP STOCK!

77 would be very believable on a car already throwing 250whp but not 140. YOU CAN NOT GET A 50% INCREASE IN HORSEPOWER FROM AN EXHUAST, INTAKE AND 2 PSI.
Not in this world or any other!

We have no dyno to prove anything!
There was never a baseline done on the dyno!
We have never been told the major specifics fo the situation!
So at this point via the present story,

bulls***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

freak it, i'm sellin the msp and gettin an LS-1.

 

[kwiktsi]

freak it, i'm sellin the msp and gettin an LS-1.

Haha- talk about an untunable turbo car .. My friend ran 12.4 with headers, exhaust, gears and crag radial. Put a turbo on it and went 12.7 .. It is currently undergoing a DFI swap and some serious tuning...

Great NA or bottle car, tough to tune with a turbo..
Joe

 

[Heathen23]

OMG I love the discussion but jebus people have a (beer) and a(smoke) on me!

BTW, all of you knowledgeable folks debating these topics I (bowdown) to you because the more you debate the more I learn! So keep up the debates

I'll go back to lurking on this thread and absorbing as much as possible (peep)

 

[1sty]

1. Changing the exhuast will do esentialy DICK for major gains. Members of this board have added T3 turbos and even T3/T4s to cars on stock exhuast then gone to a FULL 3" from the turbo back and have not felt anything major!

THE MSP IS NOTHING NEW.

Its an MP3 with a small turbo strapped on.
If an MP3/P5/LX can't run those numbers with the intake and exhuast setup and a larger turbo then neither can the MSP.

The damn MSP is not a amazingly different vehical then any other protege.

Untill someone answers one simply question you are all full of complete s***!
Why is it the Spoolin (who has proven himself by far the most knowledgable turbo tuner on the board) extracted only 220 whp with a similiar if not better exhuast, a similair if not better intake, a FAR superior turbo at 8 PSI and a LINK's MANAGEMENT SYSTEM?
How is it that a MSP with a tiny turbo and no real tuning can hit the same numbers with only 1 more PSI?

There are only 2 answers:
1. IT CAN'T!
2. Spoolin and the other 50 people that were turboed over 6 months before the damn MSP even came out, don't know s*** about turbos and proteges.

Take your pic!

 

[tekkie]

I have an idea all you non believers send me 100 bucks US each and I will go get my car baselined at the same place xsiv did his dyno, then I will put on the same exhaust and go back to the same place to get it dyno'd again to prove the difference. If I had the extra money I would do it myself but right now I can't afford it

seriously I will take your money lol

 

[Dexter]

why you hatin on the MSP so much

 

[AGR]

why you hatin on the MSP so much

uh huh,,,,,,being an asshole, like Jecky. Many non-MAZDASPEED owners are quite nice; and then, there are the ******* assholes. Why are they ******* assholes?! I don't know. You would think if they couldn't be nice they would stay on their side of the fence. What a dipshit!

I gotta tell ya, Dex; Being around here, you soon find out who is cool, and who is a ******* asshole. Everyone has their bad days, I guess; but that shouldn't reflect on the forums.

I love all the Proteges. So; why is it, when somebody like '1st MP3 in NH' doesn't agree with someone else, they have to go off like a madman?! :wtf:

 

[1sty]

why you hatin on the MSP so much

I am being 100% realistic nothing more or less.
I know the car as well as anyone on here at this point.
I also have been around through all of the time in which all of the other proteges were starting to get turboed up until now.

These gain of 77 whp are completely impossible unless there is more to this story.

You can make outrageous claims but my posed question explains it all. The MSp is ABSOLUTELY nothing special, just a small turbo. With an FPR and aux fuel pump I can throw more fuel then it possibly can! This is the common setup of all other Turbo proteges.

Statements without proof are garbage and I have no patience for them.

I only except proven fact!
There is more to this story or it is BS!

Simply put the MSP is not cabalbe of these number until all that makes it and MSp are removed and it is put to the level of the rest of the turbo proteges.

keep in mind there are 2 turbo kits out there. Each has a far larger turbo then the MSP. Each can throw more fuel then a stock MSP and equal air obviously. Each has a better intercooler then the MSp and each is more tunable. So why have none come close to these numbers other then One?

I have no problems believing when there is legitimate proof.

 

[AGR]

Yes; these indifferences are what can bring tears to my eyes. :'(

 

[1sty]

I gotta tell ya, Dex; Being around here, you soon find out who is cool, and who is a ******* asshole. Everyone has their bad days, I guess; but that shouldn't reflect on the forums.

As for Being an asshole!
I am looking out for you guys for christ sake.
You think this type of thing hasn't been claimed before.
It has and it was never true, if it is fine. But I DEMAND more then a post about it to accept it.

How am I an asshole for Explianing exactly what the MSP is?

Are you guys that blind to think it is superior to any other protege?

Becuase someone takes the overbosted BS away and reveals the plain and simple truth and offers simple fact with a question of proof (which NO ONE HAS HAD THE BALLZ TO ANSWER!), I guess they are an asshole.
Fine, cool by me.

 

[AGR]

I 'll answer. I'll answer...pick me!!

I love my Wife's ES Protege, and I think the P5 is totally sweet (almost bought one)!

Getting totally bent out of shape over a discussion, I think, is getting a bit out of hand. Sure; some things may not seem believable, and maybe they're not - but chill! There simply must be a reasonable explanation.

Or; it may just be the phenomena that is the MAZDASPEED (k)

 

[yashooa]

Well Well

1. Changing the exhuast will do esentialy DICK for major gains. Members of this board have added T3 turbos and even T3/T4s to cars on stock exhuast then gone to a FULL 3" from the turbo back and have not felt anything major!

THE MSP IS NOTHING NEW.

Its an MP3 with a small turbo strapped on.
If an MP3/P5/LX can't run those numbers with the intake and exhuast setup and a larger turbo then neither can the MSP.

The damn MSP is not a amazingly different vehical then any other protege.

Untill someone answers one simply question you are all full of complete s***!
Why is it the Spoolin (who has proven himself by far the most knowledgable turbo tuner on the board) extracted only 220 whp with a similiar if not better exhuast, a similair if not better intake, a FAR superior turbo at 8 PSI and a LINK's MANAGEMENT SYSTEM?
How is it that a MSP with a tiny turbo and no real tuning can hit the same numbers with only 1 more PSI?

There are only 2 answers:
1. IT CAN'T!
2. Spoolin and the other 50 people that were turboed over 6 months before the damn MSP even came out, don't know s*** about turbos and proteges.

Take your pic!

That 77 extra WHP his car produces must really hurt your pussy Miss 1sty. Please people beware of the soft vagina-ed among us please remember them when you post your gains. They will wail in pain and whine like a young girl who is about to menstrate.
Please think of their feelings before bruising the tender coochie ones among us for they are our friends as well.

 

[AGR]

oh my............

(outie)

 

[1sty]

I 'll answer. I'll answer...pick me!!

I love my Wife's ES Protege, and I think the P5 is totally sweet (almost bought one)!

Once again a board memeber dodging the subject with insult and uselessness to aviod having to contribute relevence to the subject at hand.

I don't care if you love the P5, ES, or your MP3 with a T25 on it!
It has nothing t do with the fact this thread has not one thread of FACT to back up its claims. The fact is all the board members expeirence long before you even heard of the MSP proves this to be impossile.

If you think i am still hating the MSP then 1. Grow up and drop the ego trip. 2. look at what I called it and then consider what i drive! AN MP3. To hate it I would have to hate my car aswell, I don't.

 

[boostisgood]

STOP STOP STOP. Yes I wanna see numnbers, I dont think anyone here is arguing FOR the guy who CLAIMS these numbers. We MSP owners ARE aruging the fact that these numbers CAN be achieved with these minimal mods.

I got an email into CALLOWAY CARS, to find out how THEY got 200 whp outta a MSP. Lets hear from them, the boost designers for the MSP tell US how they got the numbers.

Ohhh, and another thing, please stop the bickering, you non MSP boys just totally proved the opposite that many of you all claim. By this I mean the flaming ,and negativity posted to others topics.

Good Day.

 

[boostisgood]

Once again a board memeber dodging the subject with insult and uselessness to aviod having to contribute relevence to the subject at hand.

I don't care if you love the P5, ES, or your MP3 with a T25 on it!
It has nothing t do with the fact this thread has not one thread of FACT to back up its claims. The fact is all the board members expeirence long before you even heard of the MSP proves this to be impossile.

If you think i am still hating the MSP then 1. Grow up and drop the ego trip. 2. look at what I called it and then consider what i drive! AN MP3. To hate it I would have to hate my car aswell, I don't.

I dont think any of us are arguing the guys numbers, or if the numbers are valid. What we ARE arguing is the simple fact that with the MSP platform, and the mods the guy has, these numbers are not hard to obtain.

Ohhh, and the ECU IS TUNABLE, this directly from my Mazdaspeed tech at smail mazda in greensburg pa.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

The problem here is that the information is sketchy at best. You can't just say that "Since this stock MSP dynoed at 141whp in this magazine, our stock MSP is also 141whp". Too many things are different in this dyno to even think about using the same number.

First off, two cars of the exact same make and model can be off by as much as 10HP from another due to differences at the time of manufacturing. Second, you have two completely different dynos in two completely different areas with two completely separate atmospheric conditions. Who knows how accurate both of these are?

The proper test would have been to dyno the stock MSP at the same dyno FIRST. Then base your numbers off of that. I would be much more inclined to believe a 30-40whp gain with intake modification, 3" exhaust, and 2-3psi of additional boost.

Chris

 

[1sty]

Re: Well Well

That 77 extra WHP his car produces must really hurt your pussy Miss 1sty. Please people beware of the soft vagina-ed among us please remember them when you post your gains. They will wail in pain and whine like a young girl who is about to menstrate.
Please think of their feelings before bruising the tender coochie ones among us for they are our friends as well.

An MSP member at his finest.
Amazing, simply amazing.
He can find more way so call someone a pussy then anything else.
I am simply in ahw of his amazing insight into the situtation.

I have kept it totaly based on truth and experience and continue to do so even in the face of completly useless posts like this.

AGR- Wanna call me an asshole, be my guess!
yashooa- can me a pussy all you like!

In the end you have accomplished nothing but proving you are both irrelavent pricks that DON'T GIVE HALF A **** about anyone else unless they have an MSP which is apparently gods goft to the automotive industry as physics have no bearing on its potential.

 

[AGR]

Once again a board memeber dodging the subject with insult and uselessness to aviod having to contribute relevence to the subject at hand.

Dodging? I am dodging nothing. I do not have the knowledge to argue this about tuning, etc... When it comes to that subject, I listen and try to learn from others. I do not claim to know anything about extra power mods., and the like.

Hey! I'm one of the few here, that loves the car with 170HP!! Ain't it a miracle?!