another surge problem

[sdaztecs92115]

Hi all, I bought an MSP this past summer. I LOVE it! I am however having a problem with a surge. The car is a 2003.5 and is bone stock with 40,000 miles on the ODO. I am well aware of the surge problems the MSP have with factory tuning, this is not my problem. The car has been great until the recent change in the weather. Now that it is cold outside I get a surge or jolt at about 4,000 RPM(this happens especially when the turbo is cold). It feels like i push the clutch in half way, then let it out without letting off the gas. There is no clutch slippage though. It happens especially when I do not down shift. If I am in 5th gear going 60 and punch it it will surge/jolt at 4,000. Do you all think my waste gate actuator is shot or does it sound like I have a boost leak? Or is this just how a cold turbo feels, AZ is so hot most of the time I may just be feeling something normal with cold weather. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AcolyteMSP]

Hi all, I bought an MSP this past summer. I LOVE it! I am however having a problem with a surge. The car is a 2003.5 and is bone stock with 40,000 miles on the ODO. I am well aware of the surge problems the MSP have with factory tuning, this is not my problem. The car has been great until the recent change in the weather. Now that it is cold outside I get a surge or jolt at about 4,000 RPM(this happens especially when the turbo is cold). It feels like i push the clutch in half way, then let it out without letting off the gas. There is no clutch slippage though. It happens especially when I do not down shift. If I am in 5th gear going 60 and punch it it will surge/jolt at 4,000. Do you all think my waste gate actuator is shot or does it sound like I have a boost leak? Or is this just how a cold turbo feels, AZ is so hot most of the time I may just be feeling something normal with cold weather. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you are hitting fuel cut, but its hard to say why there are many causes.
You got a boost gauge in the car?
Also what mods are done to the vehicle?

What part of AZ you in, its nice to see another MSP owner.
The mazda guys around here (AZMC) do not have a lot of boosted members.

I got my MSP in june and its been nothing but problems :\
Hope you have better luck than me.

 

[AtenzaNY62]

how do you hear the surge when your car is bone stock? by surge you mean compressor surge? i thought you can only hear it after the bov/bpv goes off...

 

[sdaztecs92115]

First off, thanks for the replies...

AcolyteMSP -> I live in Mesa off the 101 and Guadalupe in Dobson Ranch, we should meet somewhere.

AtenzaNY62 -> I don't hear the surge, I actually feel the surge/jolt. I am a newbie, so what I might be feeling is fuel cut. After the surge/jolt the car revs fine until the next surge. This all happens when the car is under load. If is start in first and take the RPM to 6,000 in each gear it happens way less frequent. IF I put it in fifth at 50MPH and floor it, at 4,000 it will jolt every time.

 

[magnumP5]

Sounds just like fuel cut. Get a boost gauge immediately. Since you are in AZ, I doubt you are hitting fuel cut because of cold weather. What I've seen most is that the wastegate actuator is going bad and you are boosting more than you should be. Also, I would never boost hard in 5th gear, ever. Even at stock boost that is an easy way to eventually blow your motor. Just downshift and you'll be fine.

 

[acroadam]

can you eliminate fuel cut? cuz my car is doing the same...its cold here in missouri..so maybe its the cold??

 

[AcolyteMSP]

Yes you can eliminate fuel cut the best way is to get an EMS
however there is a cheaper version and i personlay wont be doing it
but many members have and are running ok. JoeP Fuel Cut Defensor

 

[acroadam]

whats the pros and cons for a joeP?

 

[magnumP5]

whats the pros and cons for a joeP?

Pro: no more fuel cut
Con: your car will no longer cut fuel when it thinks it is running unsafe (ie you could blow your motor)

 

[powderider87]

So, with Joe's dealio can i just put it on in the winter to eliminate the fuel cut then take it off in the summer when i don't need it so the engine can run safe again.

 

[M.S.C - M.S.P]

this kind of sounds like the problem i'm having. while excelerating my car will jerk back and forth a little and then it will run smooth and normally. is this fuel cut? also i just had one of the motor mounts changed and it fixed the problem a little, could it be another broken mount? i live in miami and it hasnt been the least bit cold

 

[Knox Joe]

IF I put it in fifth at 50MPH and floor it, at 4,000 it will jolt every time.

damn is no one reading this!

Quit doing that! At 50 you should be in 3rd or 4th.

Are you trying to blow up your motor? (dunno)

He's probably leaning out causing the "surge" by loading the engine like that in 5th gear.

do a search!

 

[Knox Joe]

this kind of sounds like the problem i'm having. while excelerating my car will jerk back and forth a little and then it will run smooth and normally. is this fuel cut? also i just had one of the motor mounts changed and it fixed the problem a little, could it be another broken mount? i live in miami and it hasnt been the least bit cold

You're not getting fuel cut in Miami.

Could be motor mounts, both my front and rear were broke. Welds gave away.

Mods?

 

[magnumP5]

damn is no one reading this!

Quit doing that! At 50 you should be in 3rd or 4th.

Are you trying to blow up your motor? (dunno)

He's probably leaning out causing the "surge" by loading the engine like that in 5th gear.

do a search!

Missed that completely but DAMN! Yeah, do not do this - EVER! Even at stock boost levels I would never boost in fifth gear more than like 2 psi and never for more than like 2 seconds.

 

[powderider87]

Anyone know the answer to my question?

 

[magnumP5]

Anyone know the answer to my question?

Yes, you could but I don't see why you would want to. I think you have it mixed up. Fuel cut isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's the ECUs way of keeping the car from exploding when it thinks the conditions are bad. Using a fuel cut defender (FCD) you are essentially removing this fallback measure. Sure, most of the time you'll be fine but personally, if my car were fuel cutting, I would try to figure out why. If nothing is wrong per se then just back off the boost a little until it warms up. I drive 90% without ever getting into positive boost - it's fun, but not required.

 

[M.S.C - M.S.P]

You're not getting fuel cut in Miami.

Could be motor mounts, both my front and rear were broke. Welds gave away.

Mods?

no engine mods, just a drop

 

[magnumP5]

no engine mods, just a drop

wastegatre actuator good?

 

[FLAMSP]

Why would Mazda release a car that is unsafe to boost more that 2 psi for 2 seconds in 5th? The car is ok to boost when you want it to in 3rd or in 5th at stock levels/setup your fine! Just don't beat on the car. I had a similar jerking issue when my radiator needed to be replaced you could check that.

 

[magnumP5]

Why would Mazda release a car that is unsafe to boost more that 2 psi in 5th? Doesn't make sense to me. The car is made to boost when you want it to in 3rd or in 5th at stock levels/setup your fine! Just don't beat on the car. I had a similar jerking issue when my radiator needed to be replaced you could check that.

The issue is that Mazda really didn't design this car to be turbocharged at all! The FSDE engine is unchanged - same internals as the n/a engine. The only engine parts "made" for this car were the exhaust manifold, turbocharger and s-pipe which were made by Callaway. The only other different engine parts added really were a SMIC, a different radiator and a small oil cooler and IIRC these were all taking from some Mazda model which was a turbo diesel. So really, Mazda just slapped this car together in efforts to make a performance sedan. If you ever find pics/details of the MSP concept designed by Callaway/Racing Beat you'll be amazed! The thing had built block, forged internals, FMIC and more!

EDIT: (forgot to get to my point) This is why you shouldn't boost hard in 5th - the engine was not designed to take that load. Sure, it will be fine for a while but I have definitely seen cases where people have blwon their motors on stock boost.