Magnus/Ion vs local muffler shop

[CHICO2003]

That is the question!! There's no doubt that, either way you go, the end result will be far better than what we currently have. But we're MSP owners. We want the most bang for our buck! That's why we bought MSPs afterall!!

So with that being the case.... in one corner we have Magnus/Ion. (and possibly others) The advantages are clear. Prefabricated... ready to install... proven performance. Basically, we already know what we're gonna get! Others have these setups and love em! Nothing to fear there. Disadvantage? Price! $1000 for 40hp? hmm... not bad!! Let's be real! Most of us bought our cars for abound 19 or so... If one of these setups came on the car STOCK... we would have paid an additional grand. (at least I would) but it's different when it comes right out of your pocket instead of built into payments. Nonetheless, it's probably still worth it!!

But wait! There IS another option!! I'm cruisin down the pike when I pull up to a Civic with a huge exhaust on the back. Gee... never saw one of those before! I think to myself as I motion to him to roll his window down. After he gives me a dirty look and tells me I'm #1 with his middle finger, I ask him where he got his exhaust... he kindly tells me and peels out when the light turns green. This leads me to call various shops... So far, after calling 4, they've all told me the same thing. It's not worth it!! They all recommend going with the first option because they have never done a setup for this car before and it's a risk on their part. Not only that, but they could only get me a 2.5" pipe at the most! I know... I was surprised too! I thought they'd want my business so bad that they'd just find a way to get it done and worry about it later. Despite the rep these guys often get, a lot of them are really pretty cool. Just like us really! They've got rides and they understand where we're coming from. Even with that being the case... I'm sure if I were to keep looking, I'd find SOMEONE who could do it for a lot less than it would cost with a Magnus or Ion... but is it worth it??? I'm defintiely getting an exahaust put on... no matter what!! The question is... who do I turn to?

Any advice/feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[funnylittlman]

I would always go w/ something that is proven.... IMHO

Hope that helps.

For me, stock is fine for now.. I don't need to burn up the road between lights here in D.C. where the traffic is the worst in the nation.

 

[nattyboy513]

i agree that you should go with proven. i didnt think that the import scene was about who can get the cheapest parts. this is my first real car, and i am doing everything right. someone's says, "tune your car right, because your soul is in that car." and while that is a little sappy/profoundish, its true. its just my opinon that anything worth doing is worth doing right...

 

[MSPDAVE125]

First off you have to realize that Stainless Steel is not cheap and for a high volume muffler shop to stock it would not be a great investment. Let alone the guy working there even knowing that you are supposed to use a 308 stainless rod to weld 304 stainleess steel. Fabrication is costly and time consuming. 2.5" Shoe bent, Aluminized steel is okay for stock boost and and for climates where snow is not an issue.

But if you plan to build in the future you might aswell do it right the first time and pay for quality. Invest your money wisely by buying quality high performance parts.



Ion is using Titanium Carbon. Very light, very durable, Sounds different than you would expect.

I am so happy with the gains I got from the Magnus system. There is nothing like freight training a Type-R out of the hole and making HIM have to catch YOU!

And as you hit second gear the wheels let go and the tach screams to redline. Hit third and your gone!

www.magnusmotorsports.com
905-264-1989

Ask for Seann Pegg

Ask him how many Tatoos he's got!

 

[CHICO2003]

So MSPDAVE,

Do you think Ion has a better setup??? I know it's gonna be another month till theres is out but...is it worth waiting for since they're both about the same price?

 

[Wesman]

azian6er
You are not really comparing apples to apples. Magnus's cat back is $695 USD, not $1000.
MSPDAVE have you heard the ION system?

 

[CRDMS1]

i got a quote from a muffler shop to do a cat back 3inch exhaust for me for 240 bucks plus the cost of the muffler. Its 3inches, its barely crush bent and it is basically the same as a magnus or ion minus the stainless steel, small crush bends, and the time it takes to install it.
--Bryan

The Magnus and iON systems are full turbo-back...not just cat-back. HUGE difference.

There are several issues related to the stock MSP exhaust system, but I suggest reading the appropriate threads...gather your facts and try to make an INFORMED decision. A full turbo-back for $1000 is a lot of money, but can make sense depending on what your goals are (performance). A cat-back or axle-back will be much less and will sound great but you're leaving the major restrictions in place so don't expect much.

Peace...(hippy)

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

azian6er
You are not really comparing apples to apples. Magnus's cat back is $695 USD, not $1000.
MSPDAVE have you heard the ION system?

magnus has the turbo-back system for sale, its 1050 i believe.
i went out to a shop and got an estimate too and got pretty much the same price as AZIAN6ER did.
im no expert when it comes to this but piping is piping to me.
if its 3" mandrel bent you get, then its going to be 3" all the way.
either way i dont see how performace would differ if the piping is the same size.

 

[iON Performance]

OK guys, we need to clarify some info here

Ok, our turbo-back exhaust basically comes in 2 flavors:
*Note when we mean turbo-back, we're replacing everything right at the exhaust dump of the turbine housing, not at the 3 bolt flange like Magnus*

(1) Street spec - which has (1) 3" hi-flow cat.
(2) Race spec - which as (0) hi-flow cats.

The systems (street spec & race spec) are made of 3" T316 & 304 Mandrel bent stainless steel. The regular system will come with a SS rear muffler. Optionally a CF/SS rear muffler will be offered as well.

Our down-pipe will be 1 piece replacing the 2 cast-iron pieces (hence making the full exhaust only 4 pieces vs. 5 pieces). It'll feature bell-mouth extraction which minimizes lag. The down-pipe will also be ceramic coated w/ a 1700F ceramic coating.

The 3" hi-flow cat section will replace the 2 cats, and can be swapped out for our race pipe which is 3". This makes for a quick easy boost in power for the track.

Our "true turbo-back" system (regular street spec system) will be offered to club members for $1000US + shipping [a Presale will be offered and will be $1000US + 1/2 shipping]

The optional CF/SS rear muffler weighs in ~ 2.5lbs and is available as an upgrade for $350US.

For those who want the street spec system and want the race pipe, that'll be a $100US option.

Here's Magnus' "turbo-back" which we'd refer to as a "down-pipe back system"

 

[ForceFed]

iON,
Not to dog your PROFESSIONAL "OPINION",but I have actually found something that you have said that is wrong for a change.
The stock MSP exhaust is only a total of 5 pieces including the "S" from the turbo.You have the "S"(1),the D/P(2),The cat section(3),the "B" pipe or if you would like to call it the extension pipe(4),and the axle back section which includes the muffler(5).Now as for the Magnus system being 3'',I'm with you on the fact that the actual bend of the D/P is no more than 2.5'' due to the bolt pattern diameter of the "S" section.Besides the fact that the outlet on the "S" section is only 2.5'' and creates a restriction of that diameter regardless of what size the rest of the exhaust system is.
What I would personally buy ,if it was made was a new "S" section that is a full 2.5" or larger mandrel bent that would bolt up to the factory exhaust or some of the already available D/P 's that some of us have.
iON,you keep claiming to be making these products ,But as of yet,I have not seen any pics of a lot of the products you are offering nor seen anyone who has picked them up from you?
Where is this exhaust?
Is your FMIC done and shipping?
Where are these hard pipes?
Well from what I hear ,you are shipping your springs but the last post I saw asking you a question on it,you didn't have a good answer on YOUR product.
Who made these springs?
You guys?
If not ,did you work closely with them?
What about the cross drilled rotors for the MSP?
Have you sold these "STOCK" drilled units?
If so ,how many have cracked already because they are not designed for the extra stress from the cross drilling?
Were they cryo-stress treated?
If not ,I hope you sent a return shipping label with them.
I could go on and on with this but I will stop here.
I think you guy's will get the picture?
If I am wrong on something ,I will formally say right now that
"I stand corrected!"
But I don't think so.

Just my.2 cents??????
Matt

 

[MazdaSpeed0020]

I am also curious about a few of the questions ForceFed asked. But my two cents about the whole issue is that you get what you pay for. Obviously the Ion and Magnus systems are better, why spend 240 bucks on some piece of s*** pipes that are not SS and not mandrel bent. We own a good quality car, might as well put a good quality product on it. If money is that much of a problem save up for a while. You obviously have some money, you own a MSP. I wouldnt go and in my opinion ruin my car by putting on a exhaust system like that just to save a little.

Matt

 

[t3ase]

iON,
Not to dog your PROFESSIONAL "OPINION",but I have actually found something that you have said that is wrong for a change.
The stock MSP exhaust is only a total of 5 pieces including the "S" from the turbo.You have the "S"(1),the D/P(2),The cat section(3),the "B" pipe or if you would like to call it the extension pipe(4),and the axle back section which includes the muffler(5).Now as for the Magnus system being 3'',I'm with you on the fact that the actual bend of the D/P is no more than 2.5'' due to the bolt pattern diameter of the "S" section.Besides the fact that the outlet on the "S" section is only 2.5'' and creates a restriction of that diameter regardless of what size the rest of the exhaust system is.
What I would personally buy ,if it was made was a new "S" section that is a full 2.5" or larger mandrel bent that would bolt up to the factory exhaust or some of the already available D/P 's that some of us have.
iON,you keep claiming to be making these products ,But as of yet,I have not seen any pics of a lot of the products you are offering nor seen anyone who has picked them up from you?
Where is this exhaust?
Is your FMIC done and shipping?
Where are these hard pipes?
Well from what I hear ,you are shipping your springs but the last post I saw asking you a question on it,you didn't have a good answer on YOUR product.
Who made these springs?
You guys?
If not ,did you work closely with them?
What about the cross drilled rotors for the MSP?
Have you sold these "STOCK" drilled units?
If so ,how many have cracked already because they are not designed for the extra stress from the cross drilling?
Were they cryo-stress treated?
If not ,I hope you sent a return shipping label with them.
I could go on and on with this but I will stop here.
I think you guy's will get the picture?
If I am wrong on something ,I will formally say right now that
"I stand corrected!"
But I don't think so.

Just my.2 cents??????
Matt

(werd)

 

[CHICO2003]

Well my mind's made up! The only question is... do I wait for Ion's exhaust setup or go with Magnus?

It looks like ForceFed asked Jack from Ion some tough questions. Though it may look like Matt has the upper hand at the moment (and T3ase obviously agrees) don't underestimate this guy! He really knows his stuff! I'm fully expecting him to write a response that not only puts your questions at bay, but also reaffirms what I already know about his expertise. Once he does... I think you guys will have to give him the respect he deserves. So what if his website isn't complete??? He's got a new company and he's doing his best to get it off the ground. My hat's off to anyone who has the ballz to do something like that. Sure, Magnus has a great websit... so does Injen and many others. But did they start like that? I wasn't there but I'm sure they got their start the same way. One thing's for sure... Jack not only knows his stuff but he consistently goes out of his way to educate us. He's sent me a few lenghty emails that were clearly personalized towards my specific questions. You just can't get service like that! All without the promise of business in fact!!

So anyway... enough ass kissin!! You guys know all I really want is a discount on his upcoming exhaust setup!!! hahaha j/k

 

[srd555]

ION,

Request:

Would you be willing to make a 2.5 S pipe with 2.5 down pipe and cat that will go to the stock cat back or B-pipe location?
Or would you be willing to make your current 3S and down pipe /w cat, taper after the cat to 2.5 so it can bolt to the b-pipe?

Also just to clarify, your s/down pipe comes with:
1) An extra o2 sensor bung.
2) A flex pipe
3) And is ceramic coated

Right?

Reason:

I am a simple man with simple goals. My goal is to have 180-190 whp with the minimum amount of noise or visual clues i.e. I do not want a huge coffee can muffler sticking out from under the car with a 4.5 tip on the end of it. Since most of the exhaust manufacturers are going for that huge muffler look I have decided to get my cat back custom made with the muffler it the stock location and the tip extended just like the stock MSP. I would like to stay 2.5 because it is more than adequate for my needs, not to mention that it is easier to quiet 2.5 that it is to quiet 3. I intend to put the biggest resonator and muffler under the car that will fit.

 

[MSPDAVE125]

WESMAN: No I have not heard Ion's system. However I have heard many full titanium systems with Carbon cans on them. Titanium definitely has a different tone to it!

I think they both sound wonderful!

 

[CRDMS1]

iON,
iON,you keep claiming to be making these products ,But as of yet,I have not seen any pics of a lot of the products you are offering nor seen anyone who has picked them up from you?
Where is this exhaust?
Is your FMIC done and shipping?
Where are these hard pipes?
Well from what I hear ,you are shipping your springs but the last post I saw asking you a question on it,you didn't have a good answer on YOUR product.
Who made these springs?
You guys?
If not ,did you work closely with them?
What about the cross drilled rotors for the MSP?
Have you sold these "STOCK" drilled units?
If so ,how many have cracked already because they are not designed for the extra stress from the cross drilling?
Were they cryo-stress treated?
If not ,I hope you sent a return shipping label with them.
I could go on and on with this but I will stop here.
I think you guy's will get the picture?
If I am wrong on something ,I will formally say right now that
"I stand corrected!"
But I don't think so.

Just my.2 cents??????
Matt

Maybe I'm wrong, but the tone of your post seems more like an attack than anything potentially constructive. The first part of your post is inconsequential nit-picking, and the questions are individually legitimate, but spamming them in one post is a bit excessive (don't you agree?) and intended to discredit and/or demean. Since when have you heard anything negative about iON? If you know something about iON Performance, you should just say so for the benefit of the forum membership or shut the f*** up until you do. IMHO, of course (hippy)

In my limited experience with iON (Jack), he has been nothing but polite, responsive, and very willing to provide solid, factual information when asked.

Sorry for the strong response, but it aggravates me when people attack for no apparent reason other than to boost their ego and seem all-knowing to others. Try a little humility sometime, and you'll make more (real) friends.

Peace...(hippy)

 

[chwood]

-- Sorry for the strong response, but it aggravates me when people attack for no apparent reason other than to boost their ego and seem all-knowing to others. Try a little humility sometime, and you'll make more (real) friends.

um, so you've concluded then that he's asking those questions just to be a punk, as opposed to caring about the answers?
Sure the post was strong, but you leapt to a conclusion that you can't support. Rebuke him for his tone, but you don't have enough ground to safely assume what you have.

Jack does seem like a standup and knowledgeable guy.
Guys like that, when called-out, bring the goods and can back it up.

When that happens, it'll mean more than anything else so just chill.

 

[iON Performance]

ForceFed - thanks for your post. The # of pieces was a typo, you do know 5 & 6 are next to each other right? So thanks for catching that.

Our systems are designed to optimize performance. Hence the "s" piece and "down-pipe" will be incorporated into 1 unit. Having it flanged there will create an unnecessary restriction to flow.

Also, we didn't "claim" we're currently manufacturing all these products, we said we're developing. That's the operative word here.

Our stage 1 FMIC kits are being manufactured as we speak, along with the optional CAI and hard-pipe kit.

Our turbo headers have completed all computer modelling and simulations and we've already started mocking up prototype units.

Our turbo-back is almost complete as well, and will be moving onto the manufacturing process shortly.

In regards to our springs, you probably didn't pick up on the obvious riddle. The springs are not made in house, as it doesn't make sense for us to manufacture springs on a limited run basis. As mentioned on the thread about the springs they are manufactured for us. The company we have doing them is well seasoned in the world of Group N rally and Super Touring cars. And yes we do work closely with them, as they do all of our Subaru & Mitsubishi springs as well. I don't think Caramilk tells people how they put the caramel into the chocolate do they?

As for the X-drilled rotors for the MSP, the drilling pattern is soley based on the casting of each individual rotor and it's structure. When used PROPERLY and not abused (ie: hosing down the brakes after a spirited drive, or not properly breaking them in) they will not crack. Even your stock rotors will crack when put under these specific conditions. Before we had gotten our WRX rotors casted, we had x-drilled the OE rotors w/o problems as well. A WRX is heavier then the MSP, and will generate more heat from the brake system. Never had any complaints about those. And yes the rotors are stress relieved after the x-drilling process. Cryo isn't the only form of stress relief. We do use the cryo process for our turbos though. We could bore everyone with all the individual intimate details of the process, but that would be quite tedious and a total waste of time.

Thanks again for catching the typo, however next time before posting directly from mouth to print, please read more carefully.

 

[MSPDAVE125]

Maybe I'm wrong, but the tone of your post seems more like an attack than anything potentially constructive. The first part of your post is inconsequential nit-picking, and the questions are individually legitimate, but spamming them in one post is a bit excessive (don't you agree?) and intended to discredit and/or demean. Since when have you heard anything negative about iON? If you know something about iON Performance, you should just say so for the benefit of the forum membership or shut the f*** up until you do. IMHO, of course (hippy)

In my limited experience with iON (Jack), he has been nothing but polite, responsive, and very willing to provide solid, factual information when asked.

Sorry for the strong response, but it aggravates me when people attack for no apparent reason other than to boost their ego and seem all-knowing to others. Try a little humility sometime, and you'll make more (real) friends.

Peace...(hippy)

I'm totally down with that!

Vendors are here to give you an opportunity to purchase quality parts. If you are so unsure of their products don't buy them, don't inquire about them and definitely don't question their abilities.

When you have marketed a product and are ballsy enough to post it here. Then you might have some ground to stand on.

Feedback is important to these Vendors. However there are methods and manorisms that are more constructive than bombardments like the post we have just seen from ForceFed.

Enjoy your car and don't stress over what is good and what is not. For everything there is a learning curve, for both customers and manufacturers alike. If everything was perfect the first time.....This forum would not exist. Because no one would have to b****!

 

[CRDMS1]

-- Sorry for the strong response, but it aggravates me when people attack for no apparent reason other than to boost their ego and seem all-knowing to others. Try a little humility sometime, and you'll make more (real) friends.

um, so you've concluded then that he's asking those questions just to be a punk, as opposed to caring about the answers?
Sure the post was strong, but you leapt to a conclusion that you can't support. Rebuke him for his tone, but you don't have enough ground to safely assume what you have.

Jack does seem like a standup and knowledgeable guy.
Guys like that, when called-out, bring the goods and can back it up.

When that happens, it'll mean more than anything else so just chill.

Read the first 3 words of my post...sometimes it's hard to tell what people are really thinking but, not knowing otherwise, I think it was excessive and intended to discredit iON for no apparent reason.

Peace...(hippy)