wrx sti...trade worth it ?

[Drake13]

Exactly like chico said..... it's all just a matter of the person's preference, that's why I told him to test drive the 2008.

I mean I got my ms6 for 20k out the door. now 40k? that's 20k for my car... and that other 20k ? i can do a numerous amount of things to my car... or i can get a 2nd car, or i could invest the money in some things i know of, double it in 2 years, and buy something i might want even more.... like a c6 z06

no no no.. you got it all wrong.. Nissan Skyline

• VR-series twin-turbocharged 3.8-liter V6.
• 480 hp @ 6,400 rpm. 430 lb-ft torque @ 3,200–5,200 rpm.
• Dual overhead camshafts with variable intake-valve timing.
• Cast aluminum cylinder block with high-endurance/low-friction plasma-sprayed bores.
• IHI twin turbochargers, one per cylinder bank.
• Pressurized lubrication system with thermostatically controlled cooling.
• ATTESA ET-S All-Wheel Drive (AWD) with independent rear-mounted transaxle integrating transmission, differential and AWD transfer case.
• Rigid, lightweight carbon-composite driveshaft between engine and transaxle.
• Electronic traction control plus 1.5-way mechanically locking rear differential.
• Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC-R) with three driver-selectable settings: Normal (for daily driving, controls brakes and engine output), R-Mode (for ultimate performance, utilizes AWD torque distribution for additional vehicle stability) and Off (driver does not want the help of the system).
• Hill Start Assist prevents rollback when starting on an incline.
• 6-speed Dual Clutch Transmission with three driver-selectable modes: Normal (for maximum smoothness and efficiency), Snow (for gentler starting and shifting on slippery surfaces), and R mode (for maximum performance with fastest shifts). EEEEEKKKK
• Fully automatic shifting or full sequential manual control via gearshift or steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters.
• Dual clutch design changes gears in less than 0.5 second (0.2 second in R mode).
• Downshift Rev Matching.
• Predictive pre-shift control (in R mode) based on throttle position, vehicle speed, braking and other information.





Oh wait.. i think thats going to be more like 65k.. WAY over the budget sorry

 

[Koenig]

call me crazy but I don't like the look of the new skyline..... I drove it in nfs prostreet as well........

I'm sorry but the only skylines I really like are the r33 vspec ii, and the r34 v-spec ii nur..... and the r34 nismo z-tune.

the new skylines look too much like a g35 with a funky bodykit slapped on it....... just not my style

plus that car is going to sound nothing like the rumble of an LS7 (thumb) So I'd like the corvette, lol I already have an AWD import, so I'd like an american car to go with my japanese

 

[Aaron2112]

2008 Viper ACR for me lol, this is dreaming though. american with the japanese so steak and rice. lol

 

[Koenig]

steak and rice can be a nice combination

I do enjoy some rice and beans with a nice steak :-D

 

[_red rocket_]

I mean I got my ms6 for 20k out the door. now 40k? that's 20k for my car... and that other 20k ?

You should really compare out the door prices of both cars. And, did your 20k price include factory NAV? So, anyone who pays 40K for a STI with NAV is a complete fool or has too much money. Not trying to rag on you here, just wanting to point out a fair comparison.(thought)

2008 Subaru WRX and STI Research page

about 1/2 way down it shows MSRP and invoice pricing. No one should be paying more than $500 - $1000 above invoice.

2008 STI invoice/destination = $33,655
2008 STI w/ BBS wheels invoice/destination = $35,512
2008 STI w/ BBS wheels & NAV invoice/destination = $37,182

Personally, I probably wouldn't pay the extra $2k for the BBS wheels as there are better light weight choices out there so I would be paying $34,155 tops for a 2008 STI. Call around to internet/fleet sales guys and you will be able to get those prices. Still, much higher than a MS3 but there is a lot more to the car to "help" justify the higher price.

BTW, some not so good news about GM and their take on future performance cars.

GM: Emission law may hamper muscle cars

Personally, I think it is complete BS on the part of GM and a way to draw attention and help boost sales. "Got to have it before it doesn't exist anymore" comes to mind.

 

[IAMHOLLYWOOD]

comin from someone in south florida i personally love the MS3 and think the STi is a late rip off in the looks depot. thats jsut me tho. i grew up in MA with fwd cars and never had any problems, thanx to good all weather tires. stick with ur MS3 and throw some $$ into it

 

[PaulVincent]

I love the looks of the new STI, but I simply cannot justify the 150% + cost increase of the STI over my MS3. That difference is the price of: a new Busa, a ZX14, or any of the Japanese liter bikes (GSXR1000, etc), so it just doesn't make any sense to get the STI. Plus, when I look at what that same dollar amount can do for my '94 RX7, why would I want to invest all that money in an STI (realize if money grew on trees, I would have the STI immediately)? So, if the STI makes sense for you..., get it and love it.

 

[Hikaru9]

To answer your question, I'd say yes and no.

Yes, the STi is an awesome car that every car enthusiast should experience at least once in the lifetime (or the Evo). If you can afford it, this should be a no brainer.

No, the trade isn't worth it since you already own an MS3 which has all the performance you want as a "daily driver" for much less dough. Sure... AWD has its advantages in poor weather conditions, but it's stopping you should worry about, not acceleration. I had Tirerack ship me a set of all-season tires even before my MS3 was delivered since I picked up the car on 12/29. Luckily all-seasons get me through the winter just fine in Northern Virginia. If it snows much where you live, then get winter tires. Virginians maybe lovers, but definitely not good drivers. I see way more SUVs in the ditches than small cars when it snows because these people like the acceleration in the snow so much that they completely forget about the poor deceleration capability of their vehicles. On that note, if you wife really sucks at driving, send her to a performance/ defensive driving school.

Bottom line... drive what will make you happy, but moving to an STi (especially for an MS3 owner) just because of the AWD is a poor decision in my opinion. *^_^*

 

[Koenig]

You should really compare out the door prices of both cars. And, did your 20k price include factory NAV? So, anyone who pays 40K for a STI with NAV is a complete fool or has too much money. Not trying to rag on you here, just wanting to point out a fair comparison.(thought)

2008 Subaru WRX and STI Research page

about 1/2 way down it shows MSRP and invoice pricing. No one should be paying more than $500 - $1000 above invoice.

2008 STI invoice/destination = $33,655
2008 STI w/ BBS wheels invoice/destination = $35,512
2008 STI w/ BBS wheels & NAV invoice/destination = $37,182

Personally, I probably wouldn't pay the extra $2k for the BBS wheels as there are better light weight choices out there so I would be paying $34,155 tops for a 2008 STI. Call around to internet/fleet sales guys and you will be able to get those prices. Still, much higher than a MS3 but there is a lot more to the car to "help" justify the higher price.

BTW, some not so good news about GM and their take on future performance cars.

GM: Emission law may hamper muscle cars

Personally, I think it is complete BS on the part of GM and a way to draw attention and help boost sales. "Got to have it before it doesn't exist anymore" comes to mind.

No where did my post say anyone getting an STI is a complete fool, I AM specifying a fair comparison, no my car didn't come with NAV and I can have NAV installed for a HELL of a lot cheaper than the extra $2000 that Mazda wants for it.

How many cars have you ACTUALLY purchased in your life?

the MSRP is NOT what all car shops sell it for...... they DO need to make a profit, and a nice one at that to get the ball rolling for them. and yes a lot of them do charge 1000 or over the invoice fee....

if you can walk into a Subaru and have them set you up with an STI and the BBS wheels and Navigation for 37k....... please let me know where so I can call them and ask them personally.

before I got my car for 20k, I had went to a DIFFERENT dealership, and they wanted to sell me an MS6 with 800 miles, that was supposed to be a "demo" car and this was at the time of Mazda having the sales to get rid of the 2006 models.

so they "dropped' 2.5k off the price...... offered me 2k for my beat up truck, and the out the door price was STILL 34k........ so I knew they were just trying to **** me, not to mention they listed the "destination fee" at $750, when before that they had only listed the destination on my GF's Mazda6 S for $600. So they were trying to tack on an extra $150 on the destination fee alone so they could pocket it. NicE!!

and NO it did not have NAV or a sunroof (thumb)

please don't compare MSRP prices....... you have to compare out the door prices, and a lot of times the "invoice" listed is not what you're going to be paying, because no one wants to work for free...... the dealership needs to make money, and the salesman themself needs to make commission.

oh and that site that I showed you........ if anyone bothered to read it at the top (not just you but several others)

they state that they in no way guarantee the info on that page...... and that it may in fact contain errors....... so don't use that page for pricing...... use Subaru.com......... or call the dealer.

After taxes, and tag and title transfer and everything you're paying Subaru...... with the wheels and NAV it's going to come out very close to 40k or slightly over it.

I also know this because my cousin's boyfriend with an 04 STI has been to the dealer considering a trade-in for the 2008......and when he went through the process they told him the final price was 36k and change (keep in mind that's with his old sti as a trade in), and before you ask yes he opted for the wheel and nav package.

He said he'd rather just keep his 04 then, cause if he's gonna pay 40k he'd rather be spending it on a nice luxury car, like a Lexus or something.



I just went to subaru's page to build my own STI

I selected blue and the gold BBS with NAV package (3,800 added to a base price of 34,995)

here's what everything came to:

IMPREZA WRX - STI
Exterior: WR Blue Mica
Interior: Graphite Gray Alcantara with Carbon Black leather bolsters
Transmission: Manual 6-speed

Base MSRP* $34,995
Transmission $0
Packages $3,800
Accessories $0
Destination & Delivery $645

Total $39,440

Notice that I hadn't even added accessories yet......

Here's my final total with some Accesories..... like the auto dimming mirror with compass (for those assholes that like to ride behind you with the brights on)
subwoofer package (cause I'm sure some people will be wanting SOME thump that isn't too loud compared to aftermarket kits)

and a center console arm rest extension, for large people like me:

IMPREZA WRX - STI
Exterior: WR Blue Mica
Interior: Graphite Gray Alcantara with Carbon Black leather bolsters
Transmission: Manual 6-speed

Base MSRP* $34,995
Transmission $0
Packages $3,800
Accessories $1,020
Destination & Delivery $645

Total $40,460

I don't know about you, but that certainly looks like 40k....... before taxes and everything else.

and even the one with no accessories...... that 39k is going to go into 40k by the time taxes and such are added to the equation.

So yes........ people ARE going to be paying 40k for these cars with the BBS wheels and the NAV package

SMART people are going to just go with the base price, and buy their own wheels for cheaper (either hook ups or places like tirerack) and their own NAV system as well (best buy sells a NICE touch screen NAV system for $800..... that price includes the installation, so you're not paying extra to install it........ just an example), and you could get get some wheels from tirerack or a hook up, so could actually spend no more than 2,000 on that..... saving you $1,800 you would have paid the dealer.

and before anyone thinks of saying "that price is added into your monthly payment etc etc"

if you can afford to purchase a 35+k car without worry, I'm sure you have a nice credit card in which to buy your aftermarket NAV system and wheels



[edit]
whoops....... forgot to mention, I also added the alarm system and the wheel locks so people can't jack your BBS golds

 

[sfalexi]

Buy whatever you want man. Your money, not ours. Myself, I couldn't afford a 35k car. But if I coulda, I woulda bought a BMW 3-series. Just always wanted one. If you always wanted an STI and now you can get one, go for it. I personally want to be able to look back and say, "Yeah. I did what I could with what I was given, and I'm happy about it." I can't get a 35k car. But I CAN get a MS3. And I'm happy about it!

Alexi <- budding philosopher (which means he won't be able to afford ANY car in the future . . . )

 

[_red rocket_]

No where did my post say anyone getting an STI is a complete fool, I AM specifying a fair comparison, no my car didn't come with NAV and I can have NAV installed for a HELL of a lot cheaper than the extra $2000 that Mazda wants for it.

Before this turns into a b**** fest and this thread is full of arguing...calm down. I did not post information that was criticizing you...was just saying you should compare like options on the cars and use like purchase prices. You were the one comparing a STI at MSRP pricing to an out the door MS3, when there is no way in hell you paid MSRP...at $20k for your MS3. Obviously, you realize that you should work for the best deal you can get on cars you purchase. That means you did not pay even close to MSRP for your MS3. I was only asking for like pricing and like optioned cars. If you are going to say the STI is going to cost $40k, then state the same MSRP pricing for a MS3 with NAV. No way it is anywhere near $20k. No argument here that an aftermarket NAV system is money better spent. But again, my point was a fair comparison.

How many cars have you ACTUALLY purchased in your life?

Plenty...which is why I made the statement that it is foolish to pay more than $500 - $1000 over invoice for most standard new cars. We are not talking exotics here, just your everyday cars. The STI and MS3 are standard everyday cars regardless how many fanbois see otherwise.

The MSRP is NOT what all car shops sell it for...... they DO need to make a profit, and a nice one at that to get the ball rolling for them. and yes a lot of them do charge 1000 or over the invoice fee....

if you can walk into a Subaru and have them set you up with an STI and the BBS wheels and Navigation for 37k....... please let me know where so I can call them and ask them personally.

I am surprised you asked me how many cars I have purchased. This above statement makes me wonder how many cars you have ever purchased. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. But, there are holdbacks, dealer incentives and such which help sweeten the money a dealer can make. MSRP is the sticker price a customer will see on the car. There are plenty of dealers who will sell cars at invoice so they do not have to keep their money tied up in stock just sitting on their lot. You do have to call around and know how to talk and have the right attitude to get yourself a great deal. A dealer will not just offer you invoice as you walk onto their lot, you have to earn it. And yes, if I were in the market for a 08 STI with BBS and NAV, I would not pay over $37,682 for the car before licensing and taxes. It probably wouldn't happen on the first call I would make, but I would get it. In fact, I did a year ago on my current STI. I paid out-the-door on my 07 STI Limited, $32,943. That was $500 over invoice plus $200 for 4 years of licensing. There is no sales tax where I live and the car had 5 miles on the odometer. The Limited STI was a car that was fetching a very high price for those fools that didn't know better and who paid it. You want to see the sales receipt?

please don't compare MSRP prices....... you have to compare out the door prices, and a lot of times the "invoice" listed is not what you're going to be paying, because no one wants to work for free...... the dealership needs to make money, and the salesman themself needs to make commission.

Uh...where do I start? I only said to compare MSRP vs. MSRP...OR...compare invoice + $500 to invoice + $500 with like options...that is all.

Yes, salesmen do need to make money and they still can make money even selling at invoice. A fair deal to both parties is $500 - $1000 over invoice. The dealer makes money and the purchaser is not getting screwed. There are still other purchasers out there that will not ever pay over invoice. I am not that shrewed and I do not have a problem paying $500 over invoice as it is fair for everyone.

Example...back to the STI Ltd I purchased a year ago. Before licensing, I paid $32,743 for my car. That was $500 over invoice/destination. The holdback on my car was $990. That means the dealer made a total of $1490 off of me. They did not even come close to working for free.

oh and that site that I showed you........ if anyone bothered to read it at the top (not just you but several others)

they state that they in no way guarantee the info on that page...... and that it may in fact contain errors....... so don't use that page for pricing...... use Subaru.com......... or call the dealer.

I did bother to read that page that I posted the link to. In fact I had that site printed out when I purchased my first 04 WRX in 2003. That site was DEAD-ON in their pricing. You may not want to believe it, but there are many on nasioc and iwsti who know the pricing on that page IS correct.

No way to guarantee? hehe, standard disclaimers. Believe what you will about how much it will cost to buy a 08 STI, but I will again state that it is a fool who pays $40k for the 08 STI when you could get it much cheaper.


Yes I do not own a Mazda product. Yes, I own a STI and previously owned a WRX. I also own a F250, not that it means anything...just thought I would throw that out there to mix it up. I am not here as a troll...but, if you really must know, research my previous posts if you haven't already. I actually do find a lot of the information on this site interesting. The MS3 and STI are both great cars that deserve respect no matter how many red-neck hill-billys put them down.

 

[Drake13]

Before this turns into a b**** fest and this thread is full of arguing...calm down. I did not post information that was criticizing you...was just saying you should compare like options on the cars and use like purchase prices. You were the one comparing a STI at MSRP pricing to an out the door MS3, when there is no way in hell you paid MSRP...at $20k for your MS3. Obviously, you realize that you should work for the best deal you can get on cars you purchase. That means you did not pay even close to MSRP for your MS3. I was only asking for like pricing and like optioned cars. If you are going to say the STI is going to cost $40k, then state the same MSRP pricing for a MS3 with NAV. No way it is anywhere near $20k. No argument here that an aftermarket NAV system is money better spent. But again, my point was a fair comparison.



Plenty...which is why I made the statement that it is foolish to pay more than $500 - $1000 over invoice for most standard new cars. We are not talking exotics here, just your everyday cars. The STI and MS3 are standard everyday cars regardless how many fanbois see otherwise.



I am surprised you asked me how many cars I have purchased. This above statement makes me wonder how many cars you have ever purchased. Invoice is what the dealer pays for the car. But, there are holdbacks, dealer incentives and such which help sweeten the money a dealer can make. MSRP is the sticker price a customer will see on the car. There are plenty of dealers who will sell cars at invoice so they do not have to keep their money tied up in stock just sitting on their lot. You do have to call around and know how to talk and have the right attitude to get yourself a great deal. A dealer will not just offer you invoice as you walk onto their lot, you have to earn it. And yes, if I were in the market for a 08 STI with BBS and NAV, I would not pay over $37,682 for the car before licensing and taxes. It probably wouldn't happen on the first call I would make, but I would get it. In fact, I did a year ago on my current STI. I paid out-the-door on my 07 STI Limited, $32,943. That was $500 over invoice plus $200 for 4 years of licensing. There is no sales tax where I live and the car had 5 miles on the odometer. The Limited STI was a car that was fetching a very high price for those fools that didn't know better and who paid it. You want to see the sales receipt?



Uh...where do I start? I only said to compare MSRP vs. MSRP...OR...compare invoice + $500 to invoice + $500 with like options...that is all.

Yes, salesmen do need to make money and they still can make money even selling at invoice. A fair deal to both parties is $500 - $1000 over invoice. The dealer makes money and the purchaser is not getting screwed. There are still other purchasers out there that will not ever pay over invoice. I am not that shrewed and I do not have a problem paying $500 over invoice as it is fair for everyone.

Example...back to the STI Ltd I purchased a year ago. Before licensing, I paid $32,743 for my car. That was $500 over invoice/destination. The holdback on my car was $990. That means the dealer made a total of $1490 off of me. They did not even come close to working for free.



I did bother to read that page that I posted the link to. In fact I had that site printed out when I purchased my first 04 WRX in 2003. That site was DEAD-ON in their pricing. You may not want to believe it, but there are many on nasioc and iwsti who know the pricing on that page IS correct.

No way to guarantee? hehe, standard disclaimers. Believe what you will about how much it will cost to buy a 08 STI, but I will again state that it is a fool who pays $40k for the 08 STI when you could get it much cheaper.


Yes I do not own a Mazda product. Yes, I own a STI and previously owned a WRX. I also own a F250, not that it means anything...just thought I would throw that out there to mix it up. I am not here as a troll...but, if you really must know, research my previous posts if you haven't already. I actually do find a lot of the information on this site interesting. The MS3 and STI are both great cars that deserve respect no matter how many red-neck hill-billys put them down.

wow what a novel.. what did i miss? (boom04)

 

[flipstylex]

hhmm... took a couple days off, and now, sum real interesting facts on buying a subaru......

anyways, i looked on www.subaru.com and they have pricing for sti's, the mitsubishi website is not ready to bring out the evo till next year...

anwyays, do any of u guys have the sti hatchy at your local dealership yet ?i always pass by mines and it seems that it did not come in yet

 

[funkyman]

hhmm... took a couple days off, and now, sum real interesting facts on buying a subaru......

anyways, i looked on www.subaru.com and they have pricing for sti's, the mitsubishi website is not ready to bring out the evo till next year...

anwyays, do any of u guys have the sti hatchy at your local dealership yet ?i always pass by mines and it seems that it did not come in yet

The STI has not arrived to the USA yet,it is on preorder.As i said 38k out the door for base model compared to 24 out the door,kind of makes you think again.(attn)

 

[IAMHOLLYWOOD]

ummm yea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm2rWx0zcvM

 

[CHICO2003]

lol wtf? to the dude saying he got his MS6 sport for $20k out the door... congrats. assuming you didn't trade in a car (and lose money) that's one hell of a deal. But to say comparing out the door pricing on cars is the only fair way is asinine. Sure, for one's own purposes that makes sense. But on a board like this with so many variables, it's absurd. Thus, the only fair way to compare the prices of cars across the country is to indeed look at the sticker prices (and any incentives that might be available). Different dealers charge more/less for the various fees... taxes obviously vary quite a bit. And let's not forget the whole trade-in nonsense. Dealers make all their money on used-cars and can usually take people for a ride... no pun intended.

Fact of the matter is... Mazda was, for a time, nearly giving away the MS6. Nowadays, I believe, it's selling (or not) for around the sticker price (which can easily get into the $30kish range.)

The Sti, on the other hand, will not suffer the same fate. Not only is there already a strong fanbase installed but the press has been extremely positive thus far. Those things certainly couldn't be said about the MS6... hence the reason Mazda piled on the incentives.

Does anyone actually think Subaru will have a hard time selling these cars? I realize it's a lot of money but come on... has that stopped anyone in the past? Look at all the geysers out there with their shiny WRC Blue and gold wheel late model Sti's... can you say midlife crisis? lol Combine those types with the spoiled, rich punks who's daddy will buy them whatever they want and you've got a stock that's set to rise.

 

[SwampAss]

I'm not sure why we are so hell bent on comparing two cars that are considerably different. There is NO competition for the STi other than the Evo. The MS3 might match or even eek out a stock STi on a highway roll but who cares? I don't know see many STi drivers out there wishing they had MS3s.
Some people here went from an STi to an MS3 but that was due to the convenience of the hatch and the comfort afforded by the mazda that the scoobies lacked since they are hard edged cars.

The Mazdaspeed 6 was set to compete with the legacy! Hallo!

I was shopping used STis for the same price range I bought my car. I went with a NEW MS3 because it best suited my needs. I wanted the STi. After consideration, my whole wheat side went with the Mazda where as my frosted side wanted a brash, unapologetic car like the scoob.

 

[Koenig]

Before this turns into a b**** fest and this thread is full of arguing...calm down. I did not post information that was criticizing you...was just saying you should compare like options on the cars and use like purchase prices. You were the one comparing a STI at MSRP pricing to an out the door MS3, when there is no way in hell you paid MSRP...at $20k for your MS3. Obviously, you realize that you should work for the best deal you can get on cars you purchase. That means you did not pay even close to MSRP for your MS3.

I wasn't trying to turn anything into a "b**** fest" but......The fact you just said I own an MS3 makes me think you haven't paid attention to anything I've said.....(hand)

The reason why my MS6 was so cheap is because Mazda was just now coming out with the ms3. So I was able to talk down the dealer, as they realized with the newer MS3 they might not sell as many MS6s, that's flat out plain and simple negotiation.

you got LUCKY paying 32k for an STI limited which was BELOW the MSRP
you said only an idiot pays 1000 or more on the invoice, but the invoice for the STI limited is 31k and the MRSP is 33k. I'm willing to bet that very few paid that low of a price like you did, and a lot of people ended up paying the MSRP or more. A lot of people end up paying more than the MSRP when they buy a car.

You must have been a smooth talker.... come with me so you can talk them down on a c6 z06 for me (thumb)

oh and did you finance your STI? Cause financing adds up to the total "out the door" cost for what someone is going to pay, since it's like a "loan" and they tack interest on that, so technically my car is 21k if I round it up.

 

[sfalexi]

"only and idiot" seems to be pretty strong. But it certainly depends on the cars popularity too. there are no rebates or special financing offers for the MS3 because it's selling well as it is. If you don't buy it, there's someone coming along behind you who is interested as well. When i looked up pretty much every website that gives the "average cost" in areas for a car, the average price people were paying for an MS3 was, well, MSRP. It's in pretty high demand, with good reviews, and I see a lot of dealers in my area actually marking it UP 3000 or more. Doesn't mean someone will buy it at that price, but they sure think someone will.

While sure an "idiot" can be someone who walks into a dealer and pays whatever the sticker price is right off the bat, it doesn't mean that if you can't bargain the dealer down to 500 over MSRP automatically makes you an "idiot". Could be the car, or the area, or the dealer, or your negotiating skills. Not cause you didn't try or due the research.

 

[Koenig]

ummm yea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm2rWx0zcvM

Stunt Junkies for the win..... the only thing that came off that car was a piece of the body kit. That's durability right there.

But to say comparing out the door pricing on cars is the only fair way is asinine. Sure, for one's own purposes that makes sense. But on a board like this with so many variables, it's absurd. Thus, the only fair way to compare the prices of cars across the country is to indeed look at the sticker prices (and any incentives that might be available). Different dealers charge more/less for the various fees... taxes obviously vary quite a bit. And let's not forget the whole trade-in nonsense. Dealers make all their money on used-cars and can usually take people for a ride... no pun intended.

Fact of the matter is... Mazda was, for a time, nearly giving away the MS6. Nowadays, I believe, it's selling (or not) for around the sticker price (which can easily get into the $30kish range.)

The Sti, on the other hand, will not suffer the same fate. Not only is there already a strong fanbase installed but the press has been extremely positive thus far. Those things certainly couldn't be said about the MS6... hence the reason Mazda piled on the incentives.

Does anyone actually think Subaru will have a hard time selling these cars? I realize it's a lot of money but come on... has that stopped anyone in the past? Look at all the geysers out there with their shiny WRC Blue and gold wheel late model Sti's... can you say midlife crisis? lol Combine those types with the spoiled, rich punks who's daddy will buy them whatever they want and you've got a stock that's set to rise.

Well I actually was comparing the out the door with "sticker" prices.... a fully loaded MS3 with NAV and all the good stuff you can get.... totals out to what? at sticker price MSRP? 25k (rounded up)? The STI fully loaded MSRP (with just the bbs wheels and nav system) totals out to 39K (round it up and that's 40k).

so regarding MSRP on the dealer sites, that's 15k more.

I already told the guy, if he could afford it, get the STI.

Cause if it came down to the "money is no object" thing, I would hands down get an STI, and yes I would get it over an EVO (althought I'm not liking the new direction of looks they are taking things.... but at least the new hatch STI looks a lot better than the ugly tribeca nose previous STI)

I know people are going to be paying the STI, I have no doubt of that, especially the rich kid part, I went to school with a kid who's dad bought him a brand new STI when they first came here. I doubt they are going to have any difficulty selling the cars at all, and I do not doubt that there are people who are going to end up paying around 40K for the car.

Oh and the lowered price on the MS6 was from back when they were coming out with the 2007 models and needed to get the 2006s off the lot. At least that's why I was told by one of the salesman (the guy who hooked me up with my car )

But if they come out with a 2009 model that looks like the new Mazda6 coming out, I'd consider a trade on my current ms6 for one of those