wrx sti...trade worth it ?

[_red rocket_]

...The fact you just said I own an MS3 makes me think you haven't paid attention to anything I've said.....(hand)...


...you got LUCKY paying 32k for an STI limited which was BELOW the MSRP
you said only an idiot pays 1000 or more on the invoice, but the invoice for the STI limited is 31k and the MRSP is 33k. I'm willing to bet that very few paid that low of a price like you did, and a lot of people ended up paying the MSRP or more. A lot of people end up paying more than the MSRP when they buy a car.

You must have been a smooth talker.... come with me so you can talk them down on a c6 z06 for me (thumb)

oh and did you finance your STI? Cause financing adds up to the total "out the door" cost for what someone is going to pay, since it's like a "loan" and they tack interest on that, so technically my car is 21k if I round it up.

touche on the MS3/MS6 thing, maybe it was too much (beer) for me. $20k for a MS6 is a screamin deal. Good for you on that deal.


Both the standard and limited STI for 2007 were $31,618 (invoice) +$625 (destination) = $32,243. I personally include invoice and destination for the overall cost of the car of where you should start from, just to clarify. And MSRP (again invoice + destination) was $34,120. There was no difference in invoice or MSRP price between the Limited and Standard version STIs for 2007. But, there were a lot of dealers trying to charge a premium for the Ltd. I saw some as much as $40k...MSRP + dealer adjustment. Yeah, right.

Like I mentioned before...call and speak with only fleet/internet sales guys. They are always more willing to cut deals. They will not spend a lot of time with you but it is worth it to get yourself a better deal. Again, call around to multiple shops first though. I actually ordered my STI Ltd 3 months before pricing and release of the car. I secured my deal at $500 over invoice/destination at the time of the negotiation.

About the loan thing...I always seperate the three different parts of a car deal. Price of new car...trade-in...loan package and always keep these numbers seperatley. I have gotten screwed in the past when I didn;t do that and some numbers got switched on me without my knowing.

In my latest deal on my STI, I sold my 04 WRX private party and I secured a loan through my credit union. The day I purchased my car, I went there and took a test drive then handed the sales guy a check for the car and licensing and then drove away. Everyone should strive to get their transactions done that way if they can. So much less stress. However, I kinda like dealing with car salesmen now as I treat it like business. And if I feel I am being taken advantage of, I will certainly bring it up and walk out if needed. They need my money more than I need their specific car which can be found at many other locations.

 

[Koenig]

touche on the MS3/MS6 thing, maybe it was too much (beer) for me. $20k for a MS6 is a screamin deal. Good for you on that deal.


Both the standard and limited STI for 2007 were $31,618 (invoice) +$625 (destination) = $32,243. I personally include invoice and destination for the overall cost of the car of where you should start from, just to clarify. And MSRP (again invoice + destination) was $34,120. There was no difference in invoice or MSRP price between the Limited and Standard version STIs for 2007. But, there were a lot of dealers trying to charge a premium for the Ltd. I saw some as much as $40k...MSRP + dealer adjustment. Yeah, right.

Like I mentioned before...call and speak with only fleet/internet sales guys. They are always more willing to cut deals. They will not spend a lot of time with you but it is worth it to get yourself a better deal. Again, call around to multiple shops first though. I actually ordered my STI Ltd 3 months before pricing and release of the car. I secured my deal at $500 over invoice/destination at the time of the negotiation.

About the loan thing...I always seperate the three different parts of a car deal. Price of new car...trade-in...loan package and always keep these numbers seperatley. I have gotten screwed in the past when I didn;t do that and some numbers got switched on me without my knowing.

In my latest deal on my STI, I sold my 04 WRX private party and I secured a loan through my credit union. The day I purchased my car, I went there and took a test drive then handed the sales guy a check for the car and licensing and then drove away. Everyone should strive to get their transactions done that way if they can. So much less stress. However, I kinda like dealing with car salesmen now as I treat it like business. And if I feel I am being taken advantage of, I will certainly bring it up and walk out if needed. They need my money more than I need their specific car which can be found at many other locations.

Thanks for all that, I'm aware of the credit union, We use one in our family, it's been a good one. That's what I used for my MS6.

And that fleet and internet sales thing, I thank you for that, no one's actually ever told me that before, so I've always dealt with the guys on the sale's floor. I think my next car I'm gonna be going through fleet and internet guys for a deal.

That 40k on the STI limited sounds exactly what i heard about. I've read/heard online of some people having paid like 38k for their STI limited. I know there was no price difference but hey, no big ass spoiler and leather (thumb).

And you're right about the paying too much, that's why I said I think people would be smarter and better off saving money by just getting the base vehicle and getting wheels and an in-dash dvd/nav system on your own.

Now if only there was some way to completely talk a car deal OUT of the destination fee altogether, (lol)

Oh and you have to admit, some people just don't have the proper funds (credit union) or knowledge to go through fleet or internet sales, so I do feel a lot of people are going to be financing with the dealer bank and paying more than MSRP for some of the 2008 STIs.

 

[funkyman]

I don`t think any dealer in the USA would currently sell an 2009 STI for less than MSRP since its scarce,and there are plenty of enthusiastic buyers with credit and money.Its not as if every dealership has it and there are dozens in the showroom

 

[Koenig]

I don`t think any dealer in the USA would currently sell an 2009 STI for less than MSRP since its scarce,and there are plenty of enthusiastic buyers with credit and money.Its not as if every dealership has it and there are dozens in the showroom

it really does depend...... I was able to purchase a (at the time) brand new 2003 Yamaha YZF R6..... now at the time those bikes went for about maybe 10k msrp....... I was able to snag mine for $7,000.

How did I do that? Well I didn't finance. I walked in with a duffle bag full of cash..... a "right then and there" purchase, they will usually take that (depending on how needy they are and how low you can talk them down).

Financing allows them to pile on whatever incentives. But if you either have the cash cause you have the money

or you take a loan from your bank/credit union. You're more likely to talk them under the MSRP. Most people aren't aware of that though, and so they do indeed finance a car through the dealership itself.

I made that mistake only once, and since then I've simply used my credit union, and avoided their talks into using their banking instituite.



and P.S.
I do miss my bike...... she was taken from me because assholes can't tell the different between a green and red light.

BEFORE

AFTER

Yes the handle bar is indeed bent, as it looks, no handle bar goes that close to the gas tank on a bike, and my hand wouldn't even fit there if i were to try and grip it

my dog bones are broken

crack on the subframe (this i found out actually went from one side all the way to the other....either needed a new subframe or a master welder)

I ended up parting out the bike for teh monies.

 

[CHICO2003]

The reason why my MS6 was so cheap is because Mazda was just now coming out with the ms3. So I was able to talk down the dealer, as they realized with the newer MS3 they might not sell as many MS6s, that's flat out plain and simple negotiation.

Dude... did you REALLY buy a new MS6 for $20k? Not bustin your balls or anything but that's almost an unbelievable deal. I'm assuming you had a trade... If not, you da man!! If you did...this sort of thing actually happens a lot. Dealers will create the perception that they're giving you a much better deal then they are... while making up the difference by selling your trade-in. I'm not saying this happened... if it didn't, congrats are in order. Even if it did, you probably STILL got a good deal overall... just maybe not as good as you think.

Recently a buddy of mine bought a leftover 07 WRX. He was all pumped and went on and on about how he got it for $3k less than invoice. Granted, it had about 150 miles on it and is the least desirable trim/color combo (TR/grey) but still... we were skeptical. Turns out, after some digging, he traded in his SE-R SV for $4k The thing was immaculate and only had 45k miles on it... It was paid off so, in his mind, he felt like that $4k was a bonus. Meanwhile, he could have easily gotten at least $6k and possibly more on his own... No doubt the dealer will sell it for at least that and, as I said before, look to make up what they 'lost' on the new car sale.

My point is... by leaving the trade part out of the equation, he almost had us convinced he was the world's best negotiator. I mean... even with dealers making money on kickbacks and what not, $3k off invoice is pretty ridiculous. These people need to eat too!

 

[builthatch]

FWIW, that white wrx with red wheels is not an STi. it's a customized WRX that was at SEMA...

OP, i'm curious why your wife, who admittedly is a horrendous driver, has to drive your powerful car(s)? it's my opinion that you should worry about what you drive for you, and if she is indeed such a bad driver, keep her safe and encourage her to get a CRV, RDX or CX-7 since this is a mazda board, or something similar and keep her out of turbo 'sports' cars.

either that, or get her some indepth driving courses.

seriously. it sounds to me she needs to be in a low strung 4wd safe and stable vehicle until she proves otherwise.

in terms of the debate between the cars, these cars have distinct differences that need to be considered.

the first is that the HB WRX, including the STi version, is on it's first year of production. i never ever recommend getting a car destined for a series run the first year no matter who makes it. i got my just-sold 97 hatch as it was the second year of the run, and i got my current 07 si sedan as it was the second year the latest gen sedans were out. same with my ms3...

the second is that these are two cars who have distinct price differences. we are talking a car that most likely will end up going off the lot for close to 40k before taxes vs. one that is around 25k with taxes. naturally, you pay for what you get, but still. it's a matter of affordability. can you afford it? it will no doubt outperform the ms3 in every manner except price and probably reliability, so again the question is if you want to have that payment and want to pay the additional insurance that the STI will create.

the third is one that matters ALOT to me and is totally personal. i do not like 4cyl boxer engines and full time awd on a daily driver type car. there is no real need for it unless you are rallying or racing in some capacity, regularly. more to buy, more parts to break, etc. there is a safety aspect, but if you want to be safe, get the afformentioned CRV. for daily driving, a ms3 with super-affordable Winterforce MS tires on all 4 corners and adult driving style should be 100% adequate for driving in all conditions in NJ.

 

[Koenig]

Dude... did you REALLY buy a new MS6 for $20k? Not bustin your balls or anything but that's almost an unbelievable deal. I'm assuming you had a trade... If not, you da man!! If you did...this sort of thing actually happens a lot. Dealers will create the perception that they're giving you a much better deal then they are... while making up the difference by selling your trade-in. I'm not saying this happened... if it didn't, congrats are in order. Even if it did, you probably STILL got a good deal overall... just maybe not as good as you think.

Recently a buddy of mine bought a leftover 07 WRX. He was all pumped and went on and on about how he got it for $3k less than invoice. Granted, it had about 150 miles on it and is the least desirable trim/color combo (TR/grey) but still... we were skeptical. Turns out, after some digging, he traded in his SE-R SV for $4k The thing was immaculate and only had 45k miles on it... It was paid off so, in his mind, he felt like that $4k was a bonus. Meanwhile, he could have easily gotten at least $6k and possibly more on his own... No doubt the dealer will sell it for at least that and, as I said before, look to make up what they 'lost' on the new car sale.

My point is... by leaving the trade part out of the equation, he almost had us convinced he was the world's best negotiator. I mean... even with dealers making money on kickbacks and what not, $3k off invoice is pretty ridiculous. These people need to eat too!

lol, yeah people can make more money if they sell a car private, or even go through CARMAX, before they let the dealer give them the money on a trade.

In all honesty....... I did do a trade in....... but the trade in was for $2,000.

Before I went to the dealer...... I KBB'd my beat up truck and private sale value was for $2,000.

The salesman gave me the private sell value off the truck (it was run down, had a over 160k miles on it, and used a lot for off-roading when hunting). I wasn't sure if they would even be able to sell that, or they just might, lol. It was still running strong, it just looked run down and had some dents and scrapes all over cause of tree branches in the woods. so i suppose painting it and fixing the dents and selling it for 5k or whatever.

I think I got a pretty decent deal out of the whole thing, I wouldn't say it was mind blowing. keep in mind, at the time this WAS a 2006 model MS6.....there were already 2007 MS6s on the lot with it, lol.

now if I got a 2007 model for 20k out the door that would be pretty mind blowing, but I don't see that happening, lol.

As it happened I found out it was the last of 2 2006 models on the lot, and they already had like 8 or 9 2007 models..... those were stickered for like 30k, and mine was 27k or 28k according to the window sticker, I vaguely remember. I guess they seemed anxious to sell them so they wouldn't sit there on the lot while customers are buying the 2007 models for only 2k more.

I went with 25k hoping to talk them down to that or even 24 from the 28 sticker......... not considering trading my truck in as i didn't think I'd get much for it. after I was talking to them and showing interest in the car, they were going to "cut me a deal" and offer it for 24k..... then I asked about trading the truck in, 2k for that.....

so I'm looking pretty @ 22k, and I started suggesting if they were willing to go lower than sticker on the 2006, maybe I should check the 2007 and see how low they'd go for that, maybe get the newer model for like 26k or 27k..... I guess they wanted to get rid of the 2006s or something, cause after I said that there was a bit of back and forth between us and after a long while of SLIGHTLY going down in price he told me 20k was the lowest he could go, any cheaper than that he might as well give me the car for free, HA!

Oh and I was at the dealer for I think like 4 hours....it's possible 5 but I don't think..... doing all this talking and the sales guy going back and forth between rooms. Maybe they just needed to get rid of the "older" models. I don't really know.

But I am happier with the 2006 because that's the rated 274 HP, since the 2007 models were rated 270.

I don't think 20k was much of a steal.......I just think I talked them down pretty good though.

I seriously don't see myself being able to do that ever again......... unless the next dealer I buy a car from, happens to have brand new previous year models on the lot, with the newest year models.

It seems dealers are quick to get rid of the older models, I've heard about friends of friends being in a similar situation and getting a car cheaper. Everyone has something to say when you tell them how you got the car. (blah)

 

[Koenig]

the first is that the HB WRX, including the STi version, is on it's first year of production. i never ever recommend getting a car destined for a series run the first year no matter who makes it. i got my just-sold 97 hatch as it was the second year of the run, and i got my current 07 si sedan as it was the second year the latest gen sedans were out. same with my ms3...

Just curious how you get a 2nd year run on a car that is still in it's first year run......... (your MS3, as there isn't a 2006 model).

it will no doubt outperform the ms3 in every manner except price and probably reliability, so again the question is if you want to have that payment and want to pay the additional insurance that the STI will create.

Price yes...... looks possibly (some of the new STI just looks flat out ugly/odd, at least in stock form)....... reliability? I dunno about that.

Check out the video of the STI jumping 171 feet through the air....... nothing mechanical broke on that car, only a piece of plastic paneling from the bodykit broke off. While people have been on this board complaining about their motor mount breaking on their MS3

the third is one that matters ALOT to me and is totally personal. i do not like 4cyl boxer engines and full time awd on a daily driver type car. there is no real need for it unless you are rallying or racing in some capacity, regularly. more to buy, more parts to break, etc. there is a safety aspect,

full time AWD is useful for any number of things. especially the safety aspect as you mentioned

~safer acceleration, on slick, iced, wet, or snowed pavements/road surfaces (this includes summer and spring when it rains)

~better cornering ability (cars that corner, accelerate, and brake ALL on the front wheel, can not be THAT reliable, my GF's Mazda 6 [fwd oriented] certainly doesn't feel that way compared to my MS6 [awd oriented])

~you are more likely to correct a mistake (like sliding or starting to fish tail) in an AWD car...... and these cars have active transfer, they're not set at a split torque difference, they (and the evo) have computations to determine what wheels need what power and such.

But I understand that's a personal opinion, regarding the full-time AWD, it was good of you to mention the safety aspect of it.


I do agree very highly with what you said to the OP about his wife/GF.

If he's considering this car simply cause she has trouble driving in the snow with the MS3...... it sounds a little like she might have too much of a lead foot.

A car like this can only make her/implore her to drive faster. Its not hard to be EASY on the gas or the car when the roads are wet or snowing (yet no one seems to drive slowly in torrential downpours, and they wonder why they hydroplane and slide out of control and crash).

And STI which the new ones can do what? 12.7[12.9?] in the 1/4? I'm not so sure his wife should be driving a car like that, if she has trouble with an MS3.

She would be better off/safer as you said with a truck/suv that has 4x4 capability, and the OP can keep his MS3 for himself with a good set of winter/snow tires.

And a good 4x4 truck/suv can be had for a HECK of a lot cheaper than 40k

 

[builthatch]

Just curious how you get a 2nd year run on a car that is still in it's first year run......... (your MS3, as there isn't a 2006 model).

i purchased an '08 MS3

second model year.

 

[CHICO2003]

In all honesty....... I did do a trade in....... but the trade in was for $2,000.

I think I got a pretty decent deal out of the whole thing, I wouldn't say it was mind blowing. keep in mind, at the time this WAS a 2006 model MS6.....there were already 2007 MS6s on the lot with it, lol.

...and mine was 27k or 28k according to the window sticker, I vaguely remember. I guess they seemed anxious to sell them so they wouldn't sit there on the lot while customers are buying the 2007 models for only 2k more.

I went with 25k hoping to talk them down to that or even 24 from the 28 sticker......... not considering trading my truck in as i didn't think I'd get much for it. after I was talking to them and showing interest in the car, they were going to "cut me a deal" and offer it for 24k..... then I asked about trading the truck in, 2k for that.....

so I'm looking pretty @ 22k, and I started suggesting if they were willing to go lower than sticker on the 2006, maybe I should check the 2007 and see how low they'd go for that, maybe get the newer model for like 26k or 27k..... I guess they wanted to get rid of the 2006s or something, cause after I said that there was a bit of back and forth between us and after a long while of SLIGHTLY going down in price he told me 20k was the lowest he could go, any cheaper than that he might as well give me the car for free, HA!

But I am happier with the 2006 because that's the rated 274 HP, since the 2007 models were rated 270.

I don't think 20k was much of a steal.......I just think I talked them down pretty good though.

With 160k miles on your truck, I'm assuming it was paid off. That said, was that (or any other downpayment for that matter) factored into your $20k out the door price? If so, clearly it wasn't truly $20k. I mean, if I were to trade in my (paid off) MSP for say... oh I don't know, lol an MS3... I'd hopefully get a cool 5 g'z for it. So my "out the door" price would thus be lessened by 5 grand. Is it then accurate to say that I negotiated the MS3 down to $17 grand out the door? A: Only if I qualify it by mentioning the trade.

Regardless of that though... $20k... or perhaps more accurately, $22k is a steal regardless of the fact that it was a leftover. I realize dealers want to move those... but as you stated, the sticker was $28k and, based on my research (I was this close to buying one myself) the invoice was right around $25k. Granted, there was a time when there were some pretty nice incentives in place... but still. To say you didn't get a steal when you paid 10k off sticker (I'm estimating 2k worth of taxes and bs like that) and obviously at least 5k off invoice... that my friend is as steal.

 

[Sierra117]

Check out the video of the STI jumping 171 feet through the air....... nothing mechanical broke on that car, only a piece of plastic paneling from the bodykit broke off. While people have been on this board complaining about their motor mount breaking on their MS3

Is it just an every day STI or one of the rally cars? The only ones I've seen jumping that far are the rally cars, and there is a bit of difference between jumping one of those and one right off the lot.

 

[flipstylex]

(iagree) (hahaspit)(lol2)(rlaugh)(lol)(2thumbs)(wedge)

7:mins to read from last post phew ..

 

[jflo]

if you can, go for it. i seriously doubt you'll be regretting it

 

[Yoichi]

beh new sti is a step in the wrong direction if you ask me.


ms3 + cash difference for the win! Put a few grand into performance mods for your ms3 and you will be beating stis all day. you dont wanna go fast in the snow anyways, it was mentioned before, both cars have the same breaking abilities, just get good tires and you will enjoy winter. there is a 110% improvement to be made with good SNOW tires, no all season bulls***.

Put a few more grand on the STI and it is untouchable. Who keeps their STI's stock??

 

[Koenig]

Is it just an every day STI or one of the rally cars? The only ones I've seen jumping that far are the rally cars, and there is a bit of difference between jumping one of those and one right off the lot.

I believe it was a slightly modified STI but not a full out rally car.

A lot of the rally cars don't have much differences between the stock STIs, there are differences yeah, but it's not an entirely different car. There are also people who rally like an "amateur" class and they don't fully build their STIs.

I'm already aware that stock STIs have a strong drivetrain (from porsche? or something) but the clutch or transmission itself is kind of crappy.

Plus the one in the video is the previous model STI........ so who knows for the 2008 STI, it maybe be problem prone, being a first year new design/platform run....... since someone said it's a different platform and based of the Legacy GT, can't say as far as reliability goes for that one. I prefer the 2004/2005 STIs, I haven't like any of the models that have followed so far (the previous or current).

Plus who really leaves their STI stock anyway? He'll probably get that speed addiction, and get a cobb accessport and some other things and end up getting a better clutch etc etc. These days if I see an STI, I rarely see a stock one. Last time I saw a stock one was like 2 months ago, and a chick was driving, and I think she'd just gotten it, so it'll probably be modified soon enough if not already.

 

[_red rocket_]

...I'm already aware that stock STIs have a strong drivetrain (from porsche? or something) but the clutch or transmission itself is kind of crappy.

The STI drivetrain is actually very stout. It takes a lot of torque, above 500awhp, and clutch dump abuse to cause problems on the 6 speed STI drivetrain. Even then you are probably more likely to break an axel or diff first.

The WRX 5 speed is the one that has seen more problems but those are almost always related high torque, above 300awhp, and clutch dumps.

 

[Koenig]

but as you stated, the sticker was $28k and, based on my research (I was this close to buying one myself) the invoice was right around $25k. Granted, there was a time when there were some pretty nice incentives in place...

Yeah the truck was mine, owned and paid for..... I was about to ask until I read your last sentence. was the invoice really 25k? cause I remember how mazda was having that sale and taking like 4k off the price of the 2006 models to get rid of them, and I've heard of people managing to purchase an MS6 for 24k out the door. Which is pretty good....

i purchased an '08 MS3

second model year.

I missed this, but now I know. I wasn't aware they had '08 MS3s out yet, nice. But eh, I already got the car I wanted so I haven't been keeping up with newer cars now, lol. Although I will be keeping an eye out come 2009 when "supposedly" they're going to have the new model Mazdaspeed6, which I hope is somewhat based off the 2008 Mazda6, but with better taillights

The STI drivetrain is actually very stout. It takes a lot of torque, above 500awhp, and clutch dump abuse to cause problems on the 6 speed STI drivetrain. Even then you are probably more likely to break an axel or diff first.

The WRX 5 speed is the one that has seen more problems but those are almost always related high torque, above 300awhp, and clutch dumps.

Well yeah that's what I was trying to say, the drivetrain is tiptop, i think I remembered reading something about them being designed or built by porsche? probably not.

I just meant about how I've been hearing about how people have been messing up 1st or 2nd gear in their STIs or such, with the teeth being sheared off, under HARD abusive shifting/acceleration? I'm probably remembering incorrectly and it's probably something else that was messing up, I just remember reading something about it over on nasioc regarding people having clutch problems or such.