I decided to make a new thread for the WOMP SC since the other one was getting a bit long. Now that there has been a big step foward in production of the kit I want to try and get more support for it.
W.O.M.P. Supercharger Specs:
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36077
W.O.M.P. Supercharger Specs:
Copied from orginal thread at protegeclub.comThis thread is being made to go over the many changes I've made on this project over the past few months. There is a lot of information flying around that is not 100% accurate and I'd just like to put everything out there in an open and honest forum where interested parties can learn about why I've chosen to build this way. All comments are welcome but please be remember to be constructive and avoid just bashing something because you feel it could be done differently. I'm open to suggestions but not abuse. I would also prefer to answer all questions about this IN the thread as my inbox fills up rather quickly.
Thanks,
Matty P
W.O.M.P. Supercharger Kit
RETAIL COST --- $2695+shipping
- Powerdyne BD-600 Supercharger w/ 1yr factory warranty (may upgrade to a BD-11A due to limited quantities of the BD-600)
- Haltech F10X fuel computer
- DaveB custom mounting brackets and pulley
- 2.5" stainless steel piping
- silicone hose w/ reducers
- t-bolt clamps
- high flow conical air filter
- Bosch bypass (recirc) valve
- FAL slim-line fan (your color choice blue,red,yellow,black)
- Boost guage + guage pod (your choice, see protegegarage.com for more info)
- All associated nuts/bolts/connectors/wire ties/washers/etc.
GROUP BUY PRICING -- $2500+shipping (when time comes)
Now some explanations.
#1. Why I chose a centrifugal blower over a roots blower.
I originally started this project with an Eaton M62 that I was going to mount above the exhaust manifold and just fabricate a discharge chute for the compressed air. This idea was doomed from the start. There are numerous reasons why I stayed away from the roots blower on this application. I'll just hit the highlights.
*excessive heat, cutting and splicing of critical engine harnesses, TB relocation, compressor location not ideal, not cosmetically pleasing, lack of ability to create higher boost pressures, sheer weight, etc. *
I knew a centrifugal blower would be a better design for this vehicle because of it's more compact design, ease of installation, greater power produced (more scalable), nicer appearance, etc. The roots blowers are INSANELY cheap....don't think I didn't try to make it work. In the end practicality won out over thriftiness.
#2. Why I chose the Powerdyne Supercharger for this kit.
Originally I didn't! This has been an evolving process and I've done my best to inform everyone along the way of obsticles I've faced and what I've done to overcome them. One of those obsticles was to make sure I could design something simple enough for a shade-tree mechanic with basic handtools to be able to install this in their driveway without modification. This means no taping of the oil pan, no welding, no cutting metal (unless you want the FMIC option), etc. I knew that I wanted a "self-contained" blower. The only two self-contained blowers I have found are Powerdyne and ATI's Procharger. I LOVE the procharger. It is an amazing unit and very possibly the best supercharger on the market today. However, procharger doesn't feel that there is any money to be made supporting the Protege community and was unwilling to negotiate with me at all on pricing. Just their headunit cost me $2100. This is obviously pricing me out of my target price. I continued looking. A friend of mine who is a semi-pro drag racer turned me on to Powerdyne. He has a 5.0L mustang with a powerdyne blower and after talking with him about it and driving the car and hearing it (or not!) I was sold. The powerdyne blower has a few advantages over other superchargers. They are self-contained so there is no oil lines or coolant lines used. They are less expensive than a similar Procharger blower. They are internally belt-driven, not gear driven. They make NO NOISE. Even under full boost with no hood on you can't hear a tell-tale supercharger whine. Since a recirc valve is used very little discharge noise is heard and with a hood on the car none is heard. Because they aren't lubricated or gear driven they do not add excessive heat to the intake charge. Powerdyne shows 20-30* above ambient temp increases on their 6psi Mustang kit. This is AMAZING considering a turbo will add about 150* WITH intercooling. There are numerous reasons why this is a great blower for the car and I've touched on some of the better ones and I'm sure they will be discussed later on.
#3. How do you address engine control and fuel management?
I have gone through several options these past few weeks all the while knowing that one was better than the others. FMU's and voltage clamps do what they're supposed to do but they are band-aids. Stand-alone fuel management is the only reliable way to control how your vehicle runs and guarantee performance gains and reliability un-matched by other devices that "trick" the car into doing something. I will be using and including the HALTECH F10X stand alone fuel computer with EVERY kit. This unit (including protege-specific harness and sensors) retails for $1100. If you subrtract the $310 I was spending on the fmu and clamp you add $790 to the overall parts cost. I have only added $200 to the overall cost of the kit. Those unfamiliar with HALTECH it's a safe bet to say that they have one of the best engine management systems in the world. This new unit is WINDOWS TUNEABLE making it much easier to adjust later. I will provide your base maps and you will need to dyno-tune to correct for a few variables I have no control over. The F10X includes, ecu, protege-specific wiring harness, 2 power relays, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, MAP sensor, throttle position sensor, com cable (for laptop), windows software and a users guide. The F10X can do amazing things such as (but not limited to) Turbo timer (not needed but neat), Torque converter control (for your auto guys), rev/speed limiter control, thermofan, intercooler fan, shift light, VICS control (uh-huh), auxillary fuel pump, traction control, etc. I could spend hours going over the depth and range of this unit but I won't. Just know that THIS is how you want to control and tune any forced induction car. (www.haltech.com)
#4. What other mods will I need for this kit to work on my car?
This is often overlooked when adding a serious power-adder to a vehicle. The rest of the system must be able keep up with all of the extra air you're now cramming into the vehicle. I will be creating the intake, Haltech will handle the fuel, stock ignition is plenty good enough. That just leaves exhaust. Right now my car has the OBX 4-1 header on and I have noticed that it opens up the engine bay a lot which comes in handy when installing this blower. Also, it allows the engine to breather a lot better than the stock exhaust would. IT IS HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU UPGRADE YOUR EXHAUST TO INCLUDE A HEADER OF SOME KIND AND A HIGH-FLOW CAT (if you need it). I suggest the OBX header from protegegarage.com for those who do not have a visual emissions inspection. I suggest the Wagner header and DP for those who do have visual inspections. With a proper tune on the Haltech you will not throw a CEL with one cat and you will pass a sniffer test (again if properly tuned). I do not have any emissions testing here and sadly cannot pre-tune the ecu so you can pass emissions. This will either have to be done by yourself or a compitent tuner.
Aside from exhaust everything needed to make this run well will be included in the kit. Of course you will need to run a minimum of 91 octane unless you feel your tuning skills are THAT good. Also, the stock fuel system has been proven to hold well over 250whp with tuning. At this time I dont think any upgrades are needed to the fuel system.
#5. What happened to the front mount intercooler idea?
Intercooling became an issue when I was working on using the Procharger blower. ATI sells their superchargers with a small front mount intercooler because their blowers have internal gears and gear oil that get hot and add heat to the intake charge. This in turn makes the system less efficient and an intercooler is REQUIRED to keep the temps at an acceptable level. With the Powerdyne this is not a concern. Powerdynes are internally belt driven so they produce no additonal heat or gear whine. Also since they aren't driven by hot exhaust gas they don't add 300* temps to their charge. Another great feature of the Powerdyne is in case of failure. Eventually the internal belt inside the blower will break. This is not a big problem at all. Should the belt break while you're driving the car YOUR CAR REVERTS BACK TO STOCK. It will idle and run like normal with the only sideaffect being no boost. Now, should you insert an intercooler into the mix then engine will actually have to suck harder to get air in it will cause some slight driveability issues. Intercooler can be added and will most likely be an option at one set price (shooting for $650) for both kits.
#6. What additonal maintaince will be needed with a supercharger?
Better keep an eye on your tires!Honestly, none. You will want to make sure your vehicle is in tip-top shape at all times but you should be doing this anyway! Powerdyne blowers contain 4 bearing packs and a drive belt. Typically these last for about 55Kmiles. At that time Powerdyne suggests a rebuild of the blower. I can rebuild the headunit for you with upgraded bearings and a full Kevlar GATES belt for about $250. After the upgrade the belt shouldn't need replacing for about 75K miles and the bearings should never need replacing again. Compare $250 every 50K miles to the cost of additonal oil changes, synthetic oil, octane boosters, etc that a turbo requires and it's VERY reasonable.
#7. How much power will this supercharge make?
Good question, don't know myself. Judging by similar products on similar vehicles I would (and used to say) about 170whp @ 7psi. This, however, doesn't take into account that the powerdyne is a much larger blower capable of much higher cfm flow rates. Doesn't take into account the Haltech engine management, doesn't take into account our larger 2.0L block (versus the hondas 1.6L), etc. I do not like to quote numbers so I will make a prediction: with haltech tuned by someone who knows what they're doing....93 octane...6psi....200whp. Not a problem at all. The inclusion of the Haltech increases the potency of this product that much more. Our cars are tuned horribly from the factory and band-aid fixes like resistors and vaccuum-based fuel adders don't tune it properly. Sure they work but not up to the level of this fuel controller. I will be shocked if I can't throw down at LEAST 180-200whp on the dyno. ... 9psi guys may wish to invest in stock in a tire company.
#8. Why does this require me to remove my AC?"
There are several important reasons why the AC has to come out. It's easier to understand if you know the first major rule of supercharging...the blower pulley has to be in a direct line of sight from the crank pulley. As with a turbo charger you are forced to mount the blower in a specific location so it can be driven by the crank. With a turbo it has to mount to the head at the exhaust manifold. Sure it can be mounted in a different location and a sub-standard header used to feed it but you sacrifice doing that. The same is true for a supercharger. I could've made 6 different brackets and idler pulleys and gear drives to mount the blower on the drivers side and still retain the AC. This is a very poor way to deliver power to a supercharger. The more connections you have between the crank pulley and the blower pulley, the less efficient you are. Now, why the AC compressor? Well, this supercharger is designed to increase overall driveability. Removing the powersteering pump severly hurts driveability. I understand about heat...trust me. We have 99* days here with 90% humidity and no wind. I like AC but not as much as I like boost. In order for the blower to be able to receive air and still fit in that same plane with the crank pulley it has to be mounted up top on the passenger if the engine bay. The ps pump is very tiny and neatly tucks up under the blower right near the engine block. This does 2 things. 1. it takes up less space that is used for the charge air and 2. placing the smaller ps pump up close to the block in the lower spot provides more "belt wrap" on the blower pulley to prevent slipping. Another thing to keep in mind is the belt routing. The belts and pulleys all have to spin the correct way pump properly. you cant just throw another pulley inbetween two pulleys without reversing their direction....now you've got to add ANOTHER pulley to correct that. There is very little space as it is. If it's any consolation Powerdyne was working on a 1.6L honda civic supercharger kit. It required removal of the ac also. Vortech had a big recall on their 1.6L and 1.8L honda/acura superchargers because the AC would kick on and destroy the drive belt. Their ac has to go also. Believe me when I say I'm not being lazy and taking the easy way out. Compromises have to be made somewhere.
This is all I can type right now. I'm going cross-eyed starring at this screen. If you have a question not listed above post it and I will make an addition to the list. I know I'm leaving out a lot.
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36077
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