happy and angry
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Traction control and stability control don't apply the brakes hard or all that suddenly. It's pretty progressive, not an on/off thing.
True, but it's not sudden or urgent with traction control or stability control in this car. The problem was your tires did not suit the conditions at all. It does not take sudden or overly firm applications of throttle or brakes to compromise traction on ice or snow with the stock tires. Try your little experiment again later in the winter with proper tires, and notice the difference in how well the TCS works.
Prove this statement. Demonstrate to me that you could have controlled the vehicle with summer tires on better than the TCS/DSC system could have. I am incredibly skeptical. You are attributing the cause of your problems to a computer system you don't understand and don't trust rather than the more obvious problem - summer tires on snow an ice.
Are you kidding me? You were running summer rubber in a winter storm, you lost control, and you think it was the TCS/DSC that was causing you problems? Uh....
That's kind of a broad (silly) assumption to make. I also live in Canada, and my experience with driving in snow and ice is at least as extensive as yours. I just don't feel that getting into a "I HAVE A BIGGER SNOW DRIVING EXPERIENCE E-PENIS" pissing contest with you is particularly relevant (also speaking to authority is a logical fallacy but I digress).
No, they aren't, but you can account for that by driving conservatively based on the conditions outside. Where as if you intentionally lose traction you are putting yourself in a very real and very precarious situation where you might not be able to get it back. And then maybe you'll be sitting in a ditch telling the police "I just sort of e-braked a little to test how slippery it was" while a tow truck hauls your little car out of a situation you intentionally put it in as an experiment.
Yes yes, these are all things experience teaches you, same with winter driving courses, etc.
Don't you sort of get to do this during most of your driving? You know, at stop signs and stop lights and railway crossings and, oh, I don't know, pulling out of your driveway? Plus, shouldn't all your experience and knowledge about winter driving have taught you (by now) that it is better to drive with enough caution to give you a margin of error with your grip? Plus, that you shouldn't be running performance summer tires in snow and then blaming your handling issues on some computer nannies when the error was quite obviously the person behind the wheel that did not put the correct rubber on his vehicle for the conditions?
Oh, you're that guy. The brake checker. Makes sense.
Unlikely.
Knowing this, one might think it is better to simply drive cautiously enough so that you are never so close to the edge of grip on one surface that changing to another compromises your ability to drive. One might be able to, with enough experience, derive feedback from their vehicle that alert them to changing conditions that do not require random brake tests or swerving on snow and ice. One might understand that driving to conditions means understanding how conditions change, how the car will respond to those changing conditions, and being able to recognize those conditions without actively placing the vehicle in a situation where grip is compromised. Maybe.
Foresight like driving to conditions?
Yes, they do. But not from you. Please don't encourage people to brake check and swerve on snow and ice to constantly re-evaluate conditions. They should just take a winter driving course from someone who knows what they are talking about (not you). I'm not saying you can't drive in the winter, I'm saying that your entire approach is pretty daft. You do not, in slippery and icy conditions, actively cause a skid in the car, especially on summer tires, and then act surprised when control is compromised. You do not b**** about TCS/DSC when you put it in a situation where it has insufficient grip to do its work. Also maybe read the manual about it, it's pretty helpful.
I am VERY happy that the countless years of combined experiences from various safety institutes, car manufacturers, researchers, statisticians, engineers and emergency services strongly disagree with the opinion of two guys on the internet who are stupid enough to run summer rubber in winter conditions and then b**** about the consequences.
Well at least we can agree on that.
I am going to repeat this because it is worth repeating. Make sure you have appropriate rubber on your car for the conditions. Make sure you understand what the TCS/DSC is going to try to do when it activates. Understand your limits as a driver. Take a course about winter traction. Consider how your actions affect drivers around you. Drive safe. These are things you need to do in the winter.
An experienced winter driver does not need to actively experiment with the conditions on the road. They drive with enough caution and enough focus in adverse conditions that they are both aware of the conditions (as they change) and aware that they have enough of a margin of safety (space, time to react, grip, etc) that they can properly react to conditions on the road. Actively compromising traction actively puts your vehicle in a situation where you just might not be able to correct it. A good driver learns how to handle their vehicle in adverse conditions, learns how to drive conservatively for conditions, and learns how to get enough feedback from merely driving that you don't need to look for situations to "test conditions". And when a good driver ***** up (IE: does not put the right rubber on their car) they suck it up and admit it, like a man. They don't look for something around them to blame.
The MS3 is quite simply the easiest vehicle to drive in the winter I've ever owned, and this is coming from someone who has driven a Civic, a minivan, a RWD pickup, an '88 Ford Bronco, and a Lada in ice and snow. Ottawa had the worst winter it has seen in 30 years last year, and this car AND its nannies handled it beautifully, in part because I was running good tires and in part because the TCS/DSC systems when combined with a tire that will actually provide grip work wonderfully on ice, and throttle is easy to modulate when you've turned them off to try and claw out of deep snow. What you did was put the car and its safety systems into a compromised situation on tires incredibly unsuited to conditions, and you're surprised those safety systems didn't just magically find grip in a situation where there was basically none (stock summer rubber on ice and snow). You're also surprised that brakes were applied without you applying them after you intentionally induced a skid. You need to learn how these systems work before you start spouting off to people about them.
