What tuning system are you using, and why?

[Marauder.45]

Yes I see this subject has been gone over many times, but lets try to do this in a professional manner. This isn't a mine is better than yours thread, this is why you use yours thread. I'd like to have a fresh discussion of the matter to help me select mine.

1) What system are you using? Cobb, CP-e standback, something else?




2) Why did you choose that particular one? Was is certain features of the device? Was it cause everyone else said it was good?



3) Now that you have used it for a while, what about it do you dislike the most? If you could change something about it what would it be?




Any additional comments about the system you would like to make, or something just in general.




Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Blendercloud]

1) I'm using the Cobb AccessPort.

2) I'm using this device for several reasons. Firstly, there is no tapping into the wiring of the vehicle's ECU which grants the ability to return completely to stock without evidence of reflashing. The Cobb AP allows you to datalog numerous mechanical and electronic parameters. It allows you to view live engine and system data. You can even check and review engine codes with it.

Finally, one of the biggest reasons I went with the Cobb AP is because there are actually Cobb personnel who peruse these forums as well as others in search of their customers and those customers' questions. Cobb has been the only company in the EMS market that I have seen that doesn't let "Customer Service" stop at a hotline. This has turned me into a Cobb loyalist.

3) To this point, the only things I can think about changing about the Cobb AP is that the OBD-II port plug (called the dongle) is big and can be in the way when trying to drive and view live data/datalog and that there aren't very many different Cobb-made maps. With that said, Cobb has recently made the AccessTuner Race program available to allow their customers to make their own maps and fine-tune existing maps. I've applied to download it, but have not used it yet.


Additional Comment:
The system may be more expensive than some of the other solutions on the market, but it is so resourceful that it is very much worth it. Being able to datalog everything from knock to wastegate duty is absolutely incredible.

I hope you find this informative.

 

[tunersteve]

1) Cobb AP

2) I won it during one of Cobb's contests, and it was on my list of future mods anyway.

3) I wish that tuning maps was a little more user intuitive, but the OTS maps are fairly solid for what they give you.

Additionally, I'd like to say that going with the AP is a nice solution for most MS6 drivers who are looking to extract a little more power out of a given mod setup. It's not going to throw gobs of extra hp in there, but to make the overall drivability of the car better in almost every circumstance. I'm sure the same can be said for just about any tuning solution, but for setup and installation, this is quick and painless.

 

[Marauder.45]

excellent responses(2thumbs)

Hoping to see some CP-e responses. If you have one chime in please.

 

[Blendercloud]

Bumping this thread for more responses. C'mon guys, let's get this "Sticky-worthy".

 

[tunersteve]

I don't think there will be a problem stickying it if it fills up more.

 

[coyfish]

Really comes down to your own level of interest / goals. The majority of people use cobb because its easy, relatively safe, cheap, and straightforward. The CPE standback is unquestionably the "better" tune because it allows for the most user customization. Granted you, or a good shop, have to be adequately knowledgable to get the most out of it. That being said the CPE is more expensive and more difficult to install / manage but it is best for those seeking big HP numbers. The speed 6 is pretty safe until you get over 315-320 whp. Then you really need to make sure everything is in check and CPE seems like the best way to do that.

 

[FORZDA 1]

....The CPE standback is unquestionablythe "better" tune because it allows for the most user customization...../QUOTE]

Not sure where you're getting your info, but it's incorrect. The AP allows "almost" full control of the entire ECU. Certainly all the "tuning" parameters, from within the ECU itself via flash. The SB and ALL the other tuning solutions are "piggyback" interceptors that can only modify the sensor inputs to the ECU, yet the ECU logic and firmware tables determine the outputs. With the AP, I can go into those tables and change the values to control the ECU outputs without screwing with the sensor inputs. There is ONLY one tuning solution available that allows true tuning without replacing the OEM ECU with an aftermarket ECU and that is the AP. There are more folks familiar with the SB right now, but it is in no way the "better" tune device.

To even get "close" to the capability of the AP, you must purchase the SB, the PnP harness, the FullControlFlash(throttle), the FuelCut flash (for cold weather operation), and you must send your ECU to CPE for these two single flash items. Oh and you will need to pay someone to install these parts for you if you can't do it yourself.

TO install the AP, you connect the dongle to the OBD2 port, flash the selected map into the ECU and disconnect the dongle. You're done. Now go drive your car and have fun....

 

[tunersteve]

....The CPE standback is unquestionablythe "better" tune because it allows for the most user customization...../QUOTE]

Not sure where you're getting your info, but it's incorrect. The AP allows "almost" full control of the entire ECU. Certainly all the "tuning" parameters, from within the ECU itself via flash. The SB and ALL the other tuning solutions are "piggyback" interceptors that can only modify the sensor inputs to the ECU, yet the ECU logic and firmware tables determine the outputs. With the AP, I can go into those tables and change the values to control the ECU outputs without screwing with the sensor inputs. There is ONLY one tuning solution available that allows true tuning without replacing the OEM ECU with an aftermarket ECU and that is the AP. There are more folks familiar with the SB right now, but it is in no way the "better" tune device.

To even get "close" to the capability of the AP, you must purchase the SB, the PnP harness, the FullControlFlash(throttle), the FuelCut flash (for cold weather operation), and you must send your ECU to CPE for these two single flash items. Oh and you will need to pay someone to install these parts for you if you can't do it yourself.

TO install the AP, you connect the dongle to the OBD2 port, flash the selected map into the ECU and disconnect the dongle. You're done. Now go drive your car and have fun....

Not to mention the sheer cost of this. You're looking at almost $2000 in features before you even load a map to the car.

 

[tunersteve]

Not sure where you're getting your info, but it's incorrect. The AP allows "almost" full control of the entire ECU. Certainly all the "tuning" parameters, from within the ECU itself via flash. The SB and ALL the other tuning solutions are "piggyback" interceptors that can only modify the sensor inputs to the ECU, yet the ECU logic and firmware tables determine the outputs. With the AP, I can go into those tables and change the values to control the ECU outputs without screwing with the sensor inputs. There is ONLY one tuning solution available that allows true tuning without replacing the OEM ECU with an aftermarket ECU and that is the AP. There are more folks familiar with the SB right now, but it is in no way the "better" tune device.

To even get "close" to the capability of the AP, you must purchase the SB, the PnP harness, the FullControlFlash(throttle), the FuelCut flash (for cold weather operation), and you must send your ECU to CPE for these two single flash items. Oh and you will need to pay someone to install these parts for you if you can't do it yourself.

TO install the AP, you connect the dongle to the OBD2 port, flash the selected map into the ECU and disconnect the dongle. You're done. Now go drive your car and have fun....

Not to mention the sheer cost of this. You're looking at almost $2000 in features before you even load a map to the car.

 

[FORZDA 1]

Not to mention the sheer cost of this. You're looking at almost $2000 in features before you even load a map to the car.

Yeah the AP is a relative bargain at $695 and you're done. Unless you want a custom tune for your car. Then you can do it yourself with the free ATR software, or pay a tuner to do it for you as with the other tuning solutions. Your choice, not a requirement as it is with any other device available.

 

[all4bspinnin]

just wait until opensource hits the market for the speed 3/6 ...image all the tuning capabilities of the AP and you have to pay $0 to download it from the net!! Opensource is ftw!

with that being said, i have a cobb AP and i like it a lot. Im a little disappointed that it cannot delete the check engine light for the EGR and VCTS delete... ive called cobb a few times and im still waiting for a response... everyone keeps telling me they'll call me back... i'll give it some more time.

 

[ssinstaller]

Y
1) What system are you using? Cobb, CP-e standback, something else?
2) Why did you choose that particular one? Was is certain features of the device? Was it cause everyone else said it was good?
3) Now that you have used it for a while, what about it do you dislike the most? If you could change something about it what would it be?

1)SB and all associated flashes.

2)It was available first, and COBB basically dicked around the MS6 market for over a year, before telling us they were giving up, and then a year later finally releasing a product MS3, and then finally getting around to the MS6.

Even still I considered switching, but the SB has consistanly dynoed higher on all the BT cars, dispite COBB's supposed "total control" over our ECM.. The highest HP MS6 actually lost power switching from the SB to the AP(with a custom map tuned buy Christian)...

You can also get the SB along with all the flashes for just slightly over 1K if you look around.

3)I would like to be able to log via the OBD2 port directly into the SB, I can currently only log the sensors the standback intercepts and my Innovate wideband via the aux box...

 

[Marauder.45]

Excellent response.


I have gone with the AP myself. Primarily for price and ease of use. I get that you may be able to eek some more out of the standback, but that is above my skill level so I feel safer using the AP.

 

[vrspeedemon]

just wait until opensource hits the market for the speed 3/6 ...image all the tuning capabilities of the AP and you have to pay $0 to download it from the net!! Opensource is ftw!

with that being said, i have a cobb AP and i like it a lot. Im a little disappointed that it cannot delete the check engine light for the EGR and VCTS delete... ive called cobb a few times and im still waiting for a response... everyone keeps telling me they'll call me back... i'll give it some more time.

any links to this opensource????

 

[ms6acton]

Excellent response.


I have gone with the AP myself. Primarily for price and ease of use. I get that you may be able to eek some more out of the standback, but that is above my skill level so I feel safer using the AP.

that is why i will be buying the ap sometime this summer. just feel safer not messing around with anything

 

[FORZDA 1]

1)...........the SB has consistanly dynoed higher on all the BT cars, dispite COBB's supposed "total control" over our ECM.. The highest HP MS6 actually lost power switching from the SB to the AP(with a custom map tuned buy Christian).............

I'm pretty sure the highest hp Speed6 dyno'd was whoosh and word is he was on the OEM ECU with a simple BCD and MBC, no additional tuning.....

IMO, the SB is as good as it gets for piggybacks and it has been in the field for a few years now for people to use it. The AP only a few months. Give it some time for the more aggressive folks to get familiar with the AP tuning capabilities and I'm pretty sure the AP will equal the SB numbers. Note that "tuning" the engine is accomplished by tweaking the SAME parameters(boost/timing/fuel/cam timing) no matter what the tuning hardware and/or software. Most simply don't understand what's going on and just assume it's magic. There really is no magic.

If you're looking for the biggest dyno number, then it will ALWAYS be the dude or dudette with the desire and unafraid to pop the motor to get it. It will always post the biggest number just before it blows..... Oops! Time to start over and back it down a bit, huh...

 

[Marauder.45]

I'm not looking to push the envelope, just get what's being locked up in there.