2.0t03speed
Member
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- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
no im on the stock msp ecu i havent even bought the f/ic yet i am going to soon tho
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What power should i be putting down?
- Thread starter udrive2slow
- Start date
2.0t03speed
Member
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- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
yea i kno its like the ftc lol
udrive2slow
Member
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- in need of a ms protege
ok yay wow i dont go on this thread in one day and it goes from 4pgs to 7 lol... so ya my car is back im running 11psi and i have no problems no fuel cut bcuz i have a mazda reflash and i have the split second AFC so i kno im getting enough fuel and air bcuz the maps r from mazda so ya im all good there... plus if the internals r good to 250 then y should i worry about running 11psi if im supposedly only gonna get like 200whp at max??
Ricktalife
Member
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- 2012 Subaru WRX
how much does it cost to get a reflash from the dealership? and do they still do it for the msp?
2.0t03speed
Member
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- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
the only thing the mazda flash does is advance timing which on boosted cars is bad
Ricktalife
Member
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- 2012 Subaru WRX
i see. thanks for the tip.
2.0t03speed
Member
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- 08.5 CWP Speed 3
no problem
because as I've said before there is a difference between air PRESSURE and air FLOW
people blow their motors on the stock turbo at anything over 10 psi, just don't do it unless you really feel gutsy....that extra slight 1 psi kick back in the seat isn't worth 3+ grand to repair it is it? lol
people also run gt28's all day long at 10 psi and don't run into problems...they kick out much higher horsepower numbers but they don't blow because they are flowing more air at a lower pressure
as for why the motors tend to fail at 250 that has to do with how weak the rods are, they break under stress...you could be running 250 without predet all day long and they will likely eventually break due to stress
you don't hit fuel cut cause of your split second however, the reflash is what I had and I'd hit fuel cut easily at 10 psi on the stock turbo lol
people blow their motors on the stock turbo at anything over 10 psi, just don't do it unless you really feel gutsy....that extra slight 1 psi kick back in the seat isn't worth 3+ grand to repair it is it? lol
people also run gt28's all day long at 10 psi and don't run into problems...they kick out much higher horsepower numbers but they don't blow because they are flowing more air at a lower pressure
as for why the motors tend to fail at 250 that has to do with how weak the rods are, they break under stress...you could be running 250 without predet all day long and they will likely eventually break due to stress
you don't hit fuel cut cause of your split second however, the reflash is what I had and I'd hit fuel cut easily at 10 psi on the stock turbo lol
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could it be that you have too much volume at >10psi leaving the stock map maxxed out and the motor not getting enough fuel for the volume of air (running horribly lean). if you were to run a larger turbo, the volume would be greater than a stock turbo at 10psi, which could cause the engine could blow at the same psi or less with an upgraded turbo?
i'm not saying that you don't run 10psi without a problem...just trying to base why people say it isn't the best idea on something concrete.
i'm not saying that you don't run 10psi without a problem...just trying to base why people say it isn't the best idea on something concrete.
udrive2slow
Member
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- in need of a ms protege
idk i c both of your view and are totally correct but im not leaning the car out if anything i run a bit rich all the time in boost so tht if far from a problem... and im starting to think that my car doesnt have the stock turbo on it because if what everyone saying is true then i should only be putting down MAYBE 200whp at max... but yet i raced my friend the other day who dyno's 234whp on a wrx and walked all over it with out a problem... nd from driving his car vs. mine i deff have more power and alot of ppl say the same... so im starting to think my turbo is upgraded but idk really... and i kno that the rods are really weak on these cars mazda built them totally wrong lol
yea they did lol
topher, again there is a difference between pressure and volume, you can kick out 20 psi of air pressure and blow your motor on the stock turbo or you can kick out as much airflow out of a much larger turbo at 10 psi and receive (likely) more or less the same amount of power and not blow the motor
its not a matter of how much air you flow through it, the more air you flow isn't gonna blow the motor...its the amount of pressure that air is putting on the motor
if you wanna run more than 10 psi though, be my guest it's your car *shrugs* but the general consensus after 5 years is that anything over 10 psi will blow your motor...the time frame may not be right away in all cases but generally if you run over 10 psi you will blow the motor *shrugs*
topher, again there is a difference between pressure and volume, you can kick out 20 psi of air pressure and blow your motor on the stock turbo or you can kick out as much airflow out of a much larger turbo at 10 psi and receive (likely) more or less the same amount of power and not blow the motor
its not a matter of how much air you flow through it, the more air you flow isn't gonna blow the motor...its the amount of pressure that air is putting on the motor
if you wanna run more than 10 psi though, be my guest it's your car *shrugs* but the general consensus after 5 years is that anything over 10 psi will blow your motor...the time frame may not be right away in all cases but generally if you run over 10 psi you will blow the motor *shrugs*
idk i c both of your view and are totally correct but im not leaning the car out if anything i run a bit rich all the time in boost so tht if far from a problem... and im starting to think that my car doesnt have the stock turbo on it because if what everyone saying is true then i should only be putting down MAYBE 200whp at max... but yet i raced my friend the other day who dyno's 234whp on a wrx and walked all over it with out a problem... nd from driving his car vs. mine i deff have more power and alot of ppl say the same... so im starting to think my turbo is upgraded but idk really... and i kno that the rods are really weak on these cars mazda built them totally wrong lol
that doesnt mean anything with him having 234 whp take a look at the weight difference between the cars.. you are probably 400 lbs lighter, plus the wrx being all wheel drive are great from a dig but on top end the msp from experience seems to be better. 400 lbs doesnt seem like alot i know but it does make a big difference when it comes to acceleration of a car.. look at in this aspect.. a mustang gt whose whp is roughly 230 stock cant beat a MSP with 185 whp.. all in the gearing weight and driver
indeed
plus awd cars may have more power, but there is much more drivetrain loss because it has a driveshaft, center diff, rear diff, rear axels, and rear wheels to drive on top of everything
so an awd car rated on the factory sticker (meaning at the crank, not the wheels) that produces (for example) 250 horsepower will not necessarily be faster than a fwd car that produces 225 horsepower (for example) because it has so much more to spin post-crankshaft
plus awd cars may have more power, but there is much more drivetrain loss because it has a driveshaft, center diff, rear diff, rear axels, and rear wheels to drive on top of everything
so an awd car rated on the factory sticker (meaning at the crank, not the wheels) that produces (for example) 250 horsepower will not necessarily be faster than a fwd car that produces 225 horsepower (for example) because it has so much more to spin post-crankshaft
udrive2slow
Member
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- in need of a ms protege
ya i deff thought about the weight factor... but a mustang weighs a crap ton more than ne wrx lol nd also i said he dyno'd 234whp thts wheeled horse so hes not losing ne of that thru the drive train... and trust me i know all about power loss through drive trains lol... but ya idk just struck me as weird but yet neox.286 im still a little bit lost on what your saying... now i dont mean to sound ignorant which i deff am gonna but plz help me understnad this... im running my stock turbo at 10psi nd my friend (hypothetical) is running 10psi on his gt28 on the exact same car with the same mods as me... so from wht u say above
"people blow their motors on the stock turbo at anything over 10 psi, just don't do it unless you really feel gutsy....that extra slight 1 psi kick back in the seat isn't worth 3+ grand to repair it is it? lol
people also run gt28's all day long at 10 psi and don't run into problems...they kick out much higher horsepower numbers but they don't blow because they are flowing more air at a lower pressure
"
means that he is safer to run the 10psi than i am? even though 10psi is still the same pressure with a lot different air flow (more being the gt28)??
"people blow their motors on the stock turbo at anything over 10 psi, just don't do it unless you really feel gutsy....that extra slight 1 psi kick back in the seat isn't worth 3+ grand to repair it is it? lol
people also run gt28's all day long at 10 psi and don't run into problems...they kick out much higher horsepower numbers but they don't blow because they are flowing more air at a lower pressure
"
means that he is safer to run the 10psi than i am? even though 10psi is still the same pressure with a lot different air flow (more being the gt28)??
no it doesn't mean it is safer
you are still kicking out more power
but 10 psi is safer than over 10 psi, another factor in that is that the stock ecu WILL run lean on occassion over 10 psi which can lead to predetonation
hes not safer than you, but he isn't going to blow it for the same reasons, hed blow it from the stress of more horsepower not from running too much pressure on it...you can hit predetonation from too high of pressure as opposed to flowing more air
you are still kicking out more power
but 10 psi is safer than over 10 psi, another factor in that is that the stock ecu WILL run lean on occassion over 10 psi which can lead to predetonation
hes not safer than you, but he isn't going to blow it for the same reasons, hed blow it from the stress of more horsepower not from running too much pressure on it...you can hit predetonation from too high of pressure as opposed to flowing more air
neox, don't misunderstand what i'm saying...i'm not going to run over 10psi ever...i can't afford to blow my motor...i just want to understand how if you're pushing more air on a larger turbo at the same psi on a stock turbo, wouldn't you lean out the a/f mixture a bit? sure, it's the same pressure, but it is more air.
yea, but more air does not equate to more pressure...pressure is the issue, not the amount of air you flow
you lean out from running more air and more pressure...pressure will lean it out more, but airflow is also a factor
however the stock msp tune is EXTREMELY rich, and leaning it out some is not a huge issue as long as you are monitoring it...10 psi on the t28 is totally acheiveable after everyone's experience with it in the last 5 years, I've seen cars running 10 psi on a t3/t4 without issue on the stock tune....don't misinterpret me saying that the t28 is not risky with saying that the t28 is safe under 10 psi
my point is that once you cross the 10 psi border you will run into problems on the stock tune, and even with an upgraded tune you are risking it...below or at 10 psi on the stock tune is safe, based off of the experiences of the members here...it is riskier than stock, yes, but you shouldn't run into problems with it
you lean out from running more air and more pressure...pressure will lean it out more, but airflow is also a factor
however the stock msp tune is EXTREMELY rich, and leaning it out some is not a huge issue as long as you are monitoring it...10 psi on the t28 is totally acheiveable after everyone's experience with it in the last 5 years, I've seen cars running 10 psi on a t3/t4 without issue on the stock tune....don't misinterpret me saying that the t28 is not risky with saying that the t28 is safe under 10 psi
my point is that once you cross the 10 psi border you will run into problems on the stock tune, and even with an upgraded tune you are risking it...below or at 10 psi on the stock tune is safe, based off of the experiences of the members here...it is riskier than stock, yes, but you shouldn't run into problems with it
udrive2slow
Member
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- in need of a ms protege
ok but u still dont make sence... tell me how 10psi on the stock turbo is different than 10psi on the gt28 turbo... besides the fact tht the gt28 will push more air in?... nd trust me im far from leaning out lol i have a narrow band
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