What happens if you bore/stroke an engine this size?

[sfalexi]

I've always heard from my muscle car buddies (and I've always been a fan of muscle cars too - will certainly start a project '87 Monte Carlo SS in a few years) that "There is no replacement for displacement". And that one of the easy and safe ways to get power out of a small block engine is to send it to either get 'blueprinted' or (what intrigues me more) 'bored/stroked' to a larger engine size. The 305 turns into a 327, the 350 turns into a 373 or some wierd change of numbers like that.

I was always wondering in the back of my mind, what happens if you try to get a very small engine (like the mazda 3 or ms3, or some civic engine or something like) bored/stroked? Besides the company probably laughing at you. Would you see gains? Would they be worth having it done? I am sick and tired of being curious and am asking some others who probably know much better than I would about the hypothetical reactions to this action.

Alexi

 

[redspeed]

It depends on the engine. It basically makes the engine bigger, more CC's/Liters. The older big V8's have thick cylinder walls that you can get bored & stroked into oblivion. Some older 4bangers(Datsun/Nissan & Toyota mostly) can also be bored for some very good gains.

For the newer aluminum engines, that is not the case anymore. The cylinder walls on these engines are a lot thiner and are built to more close tolerances, and you can run in a lot of problems like overheating and premature engine wear/failure. Maybe on some engines it can be done, but I don't know.

 

[the ill switch]

"There is no replacement for displacement".

The replacement for displacement is boost. Your poor muscle car friends have to tear their engines apart and send them to machine shops to see gains. All you have to do on an MS3 is slap on an MBC and crank up the turbo a few PSI.

Of course I'm not advising that you wantonly raise your engine's boost, but hopefully you get the point - muscle car tuning philosophy doesn't exactly translate to modern boosted engine turning philosophy very well. A MS3 engine is a marvel of modern design and features an approach that was totally un-thought of when those muscle car engines were originally designed. Hence, a lot of the things that people do to older muscle cars are more or less irrelevant on a MS3.

 

[Sierra117]

"There is no replacement for displacement".

I call it T^3 (T cubed). Technology, turbos, and tuning. Thats you replacement for displacement.

And that one of the easy and safe ways to get power out of a small block engine is to send it to either get 'blueprinted' or (what intrigues me more) 'bored/stroked' to a larger engine size.

I really wish I could find the exact link, but I'm almost dead positive I read somewhere that the SAE came out and said that making motors bigger with more cylinders is the most ineffcient way to make power.

I was always wondering in the back of my mind, what happens if you try to get a very small engine (like the mazda 3 or ms3, or some civic engine or something like) bored/stroked? Besides the company probably laughing at you. Would you see gains? Would they be worth having it done? I am sick and tired of being curious and am asking some others who probably know much better than I would about the hypothetical reactions to this action.

Alexi

Many companies offer stroker kits for tons of lower displacement cars. I know a common one for the Poopras is 3.4L. The black AMS Evo down in P-Cola was running a 2.3L Stroker for a bit as well, and I've seen plenty of Skylines making big power by bumping up to 2.8L from the 2.6L. You just have to find a company that has an interest in it.

I wouldn't think jumping up to 2.5L would hurt this motor to much with a stroker kit.

 

[Mocoso]

IMHO: boring/stroking a turbo engine CAN give you more power but you run a big risk of busting the engine due to thinner walls - it may no longer handle the boost and if you have to lower the boost you in essence have diminished the value of more displacement...Im sure its not as popular on turbo engines due to the added risk involved....

 

[mspHtown]

IMHO: boring/stroking a turbo engine CAN give you more power but you run a big risk of busting the engine due to thinner walls - it may no longer handle the boost and if you have to lower the boost you in essence have diminished the value of more displacement...Im sure its not as popular on turbo engines due to the added risk involved....

you thin the walls if you bore the engine, not stroke it. i agree with boring the cylinders is not worth the risk and on a four banger there isnt too much gain (speaking from experience with a protege).


however, there are gains in stroking the engine and i do think they are worth it. the more displacement you have the more power out of boost you will have. so cruising around you will have more pick up with out any boost as compared to smaller displacement. once you start putting larger and larger turbos on the car, lag will increase. So, the more power out of boost the more responsive and "fun" the car will be without the help of the turbocharger. then imagine when you hit boost !

 

[MSpeedRacer]

I had a escort with a 2.0L DOHC Zetec with VCt and i didnt bore over but i did put the focus sport stroker kit in it and it added 300ccs and 28whp on the dyno it is possible to do but since there is no kit readily available...yet you might have to trouble some folks at eagle, pauter, or even cosworth to make you a set of rods and some good pistons for stroking purposes, allthought there would have to be a lot of calculations and measurements prior to ordering the rods to make sure they would actually work.

 

[orng1]

You spend a lot of $$$

Sure there are benifits to boring and stroking a motor but for the cost of it and the minimal gain... You'd be better off adding a few parts, TBE, EMS, IC. A stroker kit and having the block bored out is going to cost a few $$KK's at the least $3000, for a lot less than that you can have a high HP car with just bolt ons with a turbo car.

 

[Fudgie]

Can you even bore a 3 block or would it need to be resleeved?

 

[the ill switch]

however, there are gains in stroking the engine and i do think they are worth it. the more displacement you have the more power out of boost you will have. so cruising around you will have more pick up with out any boost as compared to smaller displacement. once you start putting larger and larger turbos on the car, lag will increase. So, the more power out of boost the more responsive and "fun" the car will be without the help of the turbocharger. then imagine when you hit boost !

Your statements are true to an extent, but you have to take into consideration the characteristics of a particular engine before making sweeping statements about what increasing the bore or stroke alone will do.

The 2.3l DISI turbo engine in MS3's already has a pretty small bore for it's stroke (87.5mm x 94mm), so stroking it would only make that ratio even more out of whack.

And again, there are lots of different ways to achieve the advantages people might have gotten with stroking an older engine design. You mentioned off-boost power - there are far simpler things than tearing the engine up that can increase off-boost power, even things as simple as adjusting the ignition timing can have a huge effect there.

 

[tru-boost]

i dont think you can bore this engine. the cyl wall are aluminum with a steel sleeve inside. i think the sleeves would need to be replaced. and then once your cyl. wall are wider, you need wider pistons to fill the holes. do these pistons exist ?? want more power.... add bolt ons and more boost ! bore and stroke jobs are for the oldie moldy cars.

 

[clos561]

I call it T^3 (T cubed). Technology, turbos, and tuning. Thats you replacement for displacement.


I really wish I could find the exact link, but I'm almost dead positive I read somewhere that the SAE came out and said that making motors bigger with more cylinders is the most ineffcient way to make power.



Many companies offer stroker kits for tons of lower displacement cars. I know a common one for the Poopras is 3.4L. The black AMS Evo down in P-Cola was running a 2.3L Stroker for a bit as well, and I've seen plenty of Skylines making big power by bumping up to 2.8L from the 2.6L. You just have to find a company that has an interest in it.

I wouldn't think jumping up to 2.5L would hurt this motor to much with a stroker kit.

untill the big v8 slaps a turbo on there....game over

 

[Sierra117]

untill the big v8 slaps a turbo on there....game over

Dunno, don't see to many single Turbo Vettes running around at 1400rwhp. Though Vipers, yes.

 

[Vindikacione]

Do you think there is space to double up- I mean add a Supercharger too?

I seen it done in a Xcion Xc or whichever. Looked nice in theory, but I think it would help the turbo lag problem. Doubt it would fit in the bay though.

I have a feeling there was an old post on this already...

 

[speed3se-r]

The "there is no replacement for displacement" will always holds true. With all things being equal (even the T^3 theory) except for displacement, a larger engine will make or has the potential to make more power than a smaller engine, period. Why else would the aftermarket make stroker kits? More power. Why do Honda's tuner do b20 vtec hybids? More power. Dont know about bore or stroking the mazda's mzr 2.3 turbo engine yet, as no one has probably tried, but if you can saftly and reliably then yes...more power potential. The nissan sr20det's can be bored to 2.2liters turbocharged...JUN makes/made the kit. But it is not cheap nor easy to do....

 

[Vindikacione]

What are the CC or Liter size in F1 cars? Anyone remember. I would imagine it isn't higher than 5.0 liters. Not trying to get off topic, but I know F1 Engines aren't enormous due to size and weight restrictions, but they do put out serious horsepower. Hmmmm.

 

[Sierra117]

What are the CC or Liter size in F1 cars? Anyone remember. I would imagine it isn't higher than 5.0 liters. Not trying to get off topic, but I know F1 Engines aren't enormous due to size and weight restrictions, but they do put out serious horsepower. Hmmmm.

They also rev as high as sport bikes (they had to put a limit on no more than 19,000rpm), and power cars that weigh less than an annorexic cheerleader. I believe for the 2007 year they were using a 2.4L V8. I don't as much follow the rules/technicals of F1, I just like the races and as long as Ferrari is winning, I'm happy.