***Turbo Performance Works Piggy Back Info***

[Micah]

ok, I'm calling Nick at the shop to ask him.

... ring ...
... ring ...

There, is currently no simulator available, Nick will be pre-programming the units, the unit will allow a 10% variance. This unit is designed for safety, Nick will discuss individual tuning aspects on a per customer basis to ensure the safety of the system will not be compromised accidentally.

 

[perfworks]

Well, did you get the software? is it up and running?

I have a question about the piggybacks operation that I cannot seem to get clear on.

Lets say I have a presetable boost controller, like the Greddy Profect B, and I have 6 psi (stock) and 10 psi set as the presets. Will your system be able to compensate for that much change in boost whenever I hit the button?

Also will the piggyback need to be reprogramed later when I go FMIC and 2.5" turbo back but still using the same 6 and 10 psi?

Software is up and running.
Thank you for your patience.
Now to answer your question. When the module is ordered i will set the timing and fuel maps to a specific level that we will discuss over the phone or in person. The reason for this is because every car will vary. You see the piggyback controls "how" the ecu sees the increased airflow and how much fuel the stock ecu must provide. There is only so much the stock injectors can do depending on the airflow your turbo provides to the motor. Many piggybacks will be sold with extra injector setups that will increase your HP potential Aprox. 75 - 95 hp depending again on your set up. I would be more than willing to explain the operation in more detail. If you PM me ill give you the number to the shop and my personal contact. If you live too far away i can make arrangements to contact you.

Sorry i didnt answer the question earlier but these past few weeks have been murder with work

 

[perfworks]

Nick as of now i am running my MP3 ecu. I want to keep it so i dont get any CEL. If i swap out to a p5 ECU and use the piggy back will i still have a CEL. Also if i run a FMU for a few weeks, is it safe on an mp3 at 4psi??

Paul with the P5 ecu you will trigger a cel because of what we talked about. The VTCS.
But you guys have to understand that any time you deal with the stock ecu and change ANYTHING it "sees" there is a chance it will trip the light. Most likely the piggy will not but depending on how radical the fuel enrichment. But like i said whenever dealing with the stock unit the possibility is always there. when you take a car that was N/A from the factory and go forced induction these things will happen depending on many variables. So far we have had no issues. This is on OUR turbo kits and stock sensors in place.

 

[perfworks]

Perf. are you out there?

yup, sorry bud

 

[perfworks]

Hmmm... I was under the impression that the piggyback would hold maps for a span of boost levels, say from 1 to 10 psi. It would over-ride the regular ECU at some predetermined boost level (i.e. 2psi) and then control everything until you fall below that preset level. If the tuning is only done for 6psi and 10psi (using that switch), what happens when your boositing 4psi, or anyother value other than 6psi or 10psi. Unless you're saying that the 6 and 10 psi are the maximum values for that map, then it would make sense.

Can you plese clairify, thanks.

The piggy back will "tell" the ecu what level of airflow you have going thru the turbo. The stock ecu is then used to increase duty cycle and fuel enrichment. The more airflow the more fuel.
Now in regards to the two maps. This is ONLY a luxury.Some people choose to run only 5-6 psi on the street . It is very common. We will tune a map specifically for this level so as to be efficient UP TO THAT level. You will have to have either a manual or electronic boost gauge. The map will have the OPTIMAL fuel and ignition settings for UP TO 6psi (as stated example above) The reason for this is that depending on load and throttle position the ecu will supply a given amount of fuel to work with. If you tune to 10psi and you only depress the throttle 75% to get the gauge to read 6psi. the fuel may not be sufficient for the airflow. Its all about having the right values. When you want to increase boost then you will have a map for a higher or lower value. If it sounds at all confusing then pleae call me at the shop or pm me and ill give you my number. There is only so much i will discuss on an open forum. I can go into great detail over the phone or in person.

 

[perfworks]

Re: any simulation?

Is there any simulator for a piggyback?
This way we all can learn on how to read values so when the unit arrives, it wil be only a matter of tune, to shorten the learning curve.

As micah has stated there is no simulator at this time. The unit is very straight foward. Once you get the unit it will come with maps already programmed into it dependign on what we discuss your potentail to be with that motor. Once you get the laptop hooked up i will go over everything with you. Very easy stuff. You look at your a/f ratio and throttle position and increase or decrease your mixture accordingly. The same for timing. If you hear detonation then you decrease your timing values.

 

[perfworks]

On a side note::

joe and micah thank you very much for your time in this project and this site in my absence. It is very kind of you to help me out.

For all those who asked several questions i may not have gotten to:
The unit will do some amazing things. But it all depends on many variables that you control. Such as the type of trubo system you are running, Injector size, Intercooler efficiency ETC. It takes alot of time to get the units almost perfect. I want you guys to be able to incorporate the unit and drive away in a matter of thirty minutes. The only way to do this is with two things. Time for me to tune and info on ALL your mods.There will be a group buy on this and many products after this week is over. For those of you who know me know i do things for a reason and greatly appreciate your patience. This piggyback will come in various stages to help people reach there HP potential and goals. On or about the 28th of this month i will post EVERY PRODUCT WE HAVE AVAILABLE for the protege and our turbo kits.
Thank you all agian for your time and PLEASE dont hesistate to call me at the shop. IT IS WHERE I CAN be reached. If you post i may not get all the info you need.

 

[igdrasil]

Hell now it sound a bit confusing.

Lets say I want to run 12 psi daily (is just example, but yes, I would like to).
Of course I dont want to be pushing 12 psi on every red light, every stop I do, then, If I want to do just a mild acceleration, just to pass lanes, and a pull with 6-9 psi is good enough, you are saying its not going to work?
Or another example, maybe Im climbing up hill and the load is good enough to make 4 psi of boost for a stable mph (like in cruise control). Is it going to be an issue?

Too bad I dont follow conversations in english easy, "excuse me excuse me....talk slow"

 

[perfworks]

Hell now it sound a bit confusing.

Lets say I want to run 12 psi daily (is just example, but yes, I would like to).
Of course I dont want to be pushing 12 psi on every red light, every stop I do, then, If I want to do just a mild acceleration, just to pass lanes, and a pull with 6-9 psi is good enough, you are saying its not going to work?
Or another example, maybe Im climbing up hill and the load is good enough to make 4 psi of boost for a stable mph (like in cruise control). Is it going to be an issue?

Too bad I dont follow conversations in english easy, "excuse me excuse me....talk slow"

Igrasil,
in this case if you plan on running 12 psi daily we will have the map set to 12psi potential for fuel and ignition. At that point NO MATTER what throttle position your at you WILL receive the CORRECT fuel and timing value for your demand. Also we will have to address the airflow at 12 psi with you. If your STOCK MAF meter can handle just the stock injectors at that point. This is why i need to go thru every system. Some may need to increase fuel pressure to the injectors ot increase the amount of injectors in there setup. Some piggybacks will come with extra injector setups for this purpose.

BUT yes the system will work fine for what you are describing.

 

[igdrasil]

If you tune to 10psi and you only depress the throttle 75% to get the gauge to read 6psi. the fuel may not be sufficient for the airflow

Last question....

Lets take this quote nice and slow, i want to understand.

The example I said it is exactly what you are describing here.
If you tune my piggyback for 10 psi, and I push 75% of the throttle then I will have problems?? Because, thats a daily driven routine for me.
Didnt you mean if you tune my piggy for 6 psi and then I raise the boost to 10psi and I only hit the throttle to precisely get 6psi on the gauge....thats where the problem starts...right?
Or am I getting this backwards.

 

[Bigg Tim]

If you tune to 10psi and you only depress the throttle 75% to get the gauge to read 6psi. the fuel may not be sufficient for the airflow.

This kinda confused me. It kinda doesn't go with the following:

in this case if you plan on running 12 psi daily we will have the map set to 12psi potential for fuel and ignition. At that point NO MATTER what throttle position your at you WILL receive the CORRECT fuel and timing value for your demand.

So for when we are using lets say a 10PSI map, we will still recieve an optimal air/fuel mixture if the boost level doesn't get that high like 5PSI???? If this is the case, why not just run the bigger map all the time?

 

[igdrasil]

Yeah, you did same question I did right before you.
He needs the clear that up, I think he meant:

Up the boost to 10 but piggy tuned to 6psi and you try to control boost with throttle to try to reach 6psi and not over.

i think if there is a level of tune we can do, we can address that safe enough, it will not be efficient, but not so bad, I think just raising the fuel delivery will do the trick, because the lack of it can raise temperature levels and detonation can occur.
But this is just me...

Well at least it will be better than running the stock ECU and 10psi of boost with just fuel enrichment.

 

[Micah]

ok, I'll ask Nick to confirm this at the shop. I'm headed there in like 10 Minutes.

I believe Nick was referring to what would happen if Nick had it tuned to 6, and then you turned it up to 10. I've seen the software - and you need to tune the fuel map according to load/rpm/fuel. At least that is what it looks like to me. I haven't started learning how to use it yet.

Last question....

Lets take this quote nice and slow, i want to understand.

The example I said it is exactly what you are describing here.
If you tune my piggyback for 10 psi, and I push 75% of the throttle then I will have problems?? Because, thats a daily driven routine for me.
Didnt you mean if you tune my piggy for 6 psi and then I raise the boost to 10psi and I only hit the throttle to precisely get 6psi on the gauge....thats where the problem starts...right?
Or am I getting this backwards.

 

[Bigg Tim]

I have no doupts in his product I know it will be awesome. Just when I think I start to understand it, somebody else ask's a good question then I want to know how it works even more. I'll find out soon enough.

 

[PaulMP3]

Nick im gonna give you a call tom. I have off work weds. I would love to come to the shop to check it out and talk.

 

[perfworks]

ok, I'll ask Nick to confirm this at the shop. I'm headed there in like 10 Minutes.

I believe Nick was referring to what would happen if Nick had it tuned to 6, and then you turned it up to 10. I've seen the software - and you need to tune the fuel map according to load/rpm/fuel. At least that is what it looks like to me. I haven't started learning how to use it yet.

this is what that statement meant. Sorry i should have said the "MBC tuned" . Thank you for answering micah. I wasnt able to respond earlier sorry . I was at the shop all day sunday.

 

[Micah]

No s***, really - you were at the shop all day Sunday - can't imagine what that was like. lol.

Why is time moving so slow? I just wanna go to the shop and work there so I can get my car done.

 

[dficken]

So what's the status on your install? How much further do you have to go?

 

[Micah]

Should be installing everything today and tommorrow. Dyno on Wednesday/Thursday.

 

[PaulMP3]

I should be comming to the shop weds. I hope i get to see your car micah.