Towing teardrop camper with a auto tranny

Actually, I never said I towed with the 5. I have been advocating never to tow with the 5 at all, lol. As for the hitch, Mazda themselves and local shops (like Burnaby Hitch) only have a tiny 1 1/4" hitch for the 5, which I would Never tow with, regardless of vehicle. I was saying I was fully loaded and "The 5 could not handle even a tiny 700lbs Boler trailer at that rate." comment was; could you imagine a light Boler at the same time? I had a 2" hitch on a previous CX-5 with my Thule Helium bike rack, the bikes never swayed. On the 5, there was a lot on flex on the 1 1/4" hitch with just 75lbs on it!

As for the trip we went on, just to be clear;
16cu ft roof box: 4 folding chairs, 4 sleeping bags, a 14x14 shelter, inflatable mattress = just under 70lbs.
2 adults = 300lbs
2 kids = 150lbs
gear behind the 2nd row; clothes, tent, 2 tarps, cooking gear, portable battery and misc = 300-350lbs
2 bikes + Thule helium, 25lbs each approx. = 75lbs
total approx 910lbs.

My Edge is the 3.5L V6 AWD Limited which can tow 3500lbs max. with the factory tow package. Without the factory tow pack it is limited to 2000lbs. This specific towing pack includes the hitch, wiring, oil cooler, heavy duty radiator and fan and anti-sway control. It's cost was $37,400 after Ford's rebates and incentives. I'm definitely not comparing the 5 to the Edge, there is no comparison, whatsoever.


Just return from my trip to the Black Hills. Logged over 2600 miles with the only hiccup from my mazda5 was the A/C froze up a few times. My estimated total weight for the small pop up camper and cargo was around 900lbs. Lowest mpg was 21, highest was 35 with a overall avg of 28. Kept the speed at 65 mph but a few time had to speed up to 75. Biggest effect on gas mileage I found was driving into a strong headwind. For me under a 1000 lbs (cargo + towing) would be the max I would try hauling in my 5.
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Just return from my trip to the Black Hills. Logged over 2600 miles with the only hiccup from my mazda5 was the A/C froze up a few times. My estimated total weight for the small pop up camper and cargo was around 900lbs. Lowest mpg was 21, highest was 35 with a overall avg of 28. Kept the speed at 65 mph but a few time had to speed up to 75. Biggest effect on gas mileage I found was driving into a strong headwind. For me under a 1000 lbs (cargo + towing) would be the max I would try hauling in my 5.
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I really hope, for your safety and others on the road you get pulled over and told to drop your trailer. Saw a few instances of that on our 2 week road trip a few months ago, they don't tolerate it here. It would be a lesson but a good one.

Can't image, even if it was rated to do so, towing with a 5 around here. Our family of four 450lbs plus gear, what type of trailer would I tow? May as well keep on tenting. The mountain passes and hills around here would kill the 5. I had a CX-5 GT that could tow 2000lbs: just not enough to carry a trailer to sleep 4 people.

Saying this I have looked around a lot for a trailer for my Edge. Finally found one, Palomino Basecamp 8b (could have gone to the 10 series at 1900lbs but the extra 2 feet of floor space wasn't noticeable, the $6000 CDN difference was!), dry weight is 1631lbs and gear, food, water, etc, plus family of 4, even if that totals about 1100lbs we are still about 800lbs under total weight.

I just shake my head when people think they can get away with towing when the vehicle is clearly not capable of doing it properly and safely. I don't care what other counties do or say, I'm in this country which says the 5 can't tow.
 
People think because you can physically attach a tow hitch and produce enough power to pull it that it's OK and safe. On one hand I'm shaking my head in dismay, and on the other I realize it's a different era and people don't know any better. Shops installing tow hitches instead of telling people to go home and hug their children make matters worse.
 
20150515_125027.jpg



It's all about the tongue weight...
 
That 5 is probably parked in front of the trailer and not hooked up. Trolling, not towing.
 
...and if it is towing that car, it just another example of stupidity. Light end, FWD, completely over loaded with a wet road = trouble.
 
Can't image, even if it was rated to do so, towing with a 5 around here.
This statement does not make sense and sounds bias. If your argument is one should not tow b/c IT IS NOT rated to do so, then why cant you image towing if IT IS rated to tow?? I think the cars body/style does not pass your eye test not big or manly enough?


My .02 to add some technical details to this discussion. Before anyone considers towing, you really should have some basic understanding of not just IF it will work (b/c you read/heard a grape vine yes or no) but better understand WHY it would or would not work. There are two separate questions getting mixed up. (Question 1) Is the Mazda5 capable of towing, followed by (Question 2) how much can the Mazda5 tow?

You should have a basic understanding of parts involved. A vehicle is either a body-on-frame (all trucks, rarely any SUVs these days) or unibody chassis (cars were body-on-frame way back but efficiency has moved all cars and most SUVs to unibody, for good reason ability to design energy absorbing crumple zones, chassis flex for nimble road manners, lighter weight for better MPG, more cabin space gained from not having to rest on a ladder frame, and cheaper to make). What were once real SUVs built on a ladder frame have almost all moved over to unibody. Running joke is that the previous highly capable Pathfinder (body-on-frame) has become the Mallfinder (unibody). Now the question becomes why can these tow but not cars?
Chassis 101 http://www.web2carz.com/autos/car-tech/2332/body-on-frame-vs-unibody-construction
body-unibody.jpg


A real tow capable vehicle has one of these hidden underneath.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlO2N076aq8

Todays unibody SUVs are more car like and will never be as capable as a body-on-frame truck or older SUVs, which originally truck based. Todays SUVs are reinforced in key structural areas to allow the chassis to carry more weight in addition to the fact that the frame gauge is engineered thicker, logically since the car will also be heavier (relates to Question 1). Other components such as engine, transmission, cooling, brakes, and suspension control may or may not get beefed up (relates to Question 2). This is why they offer towing packages, which are just add-ons to beef these up.

The other factor to tow-ability is type and quality of the hitch, and more specifically where and how it is fixed to the car. There are a few hitch options for the Mazda 5 that are installed/attached to the car VERY DIFFERENTLY! I cannot stress this enough. There are hitch designs that attaches to the bumper beam, ones that attaches to the bumper beam or one unibody frame rail + tow hook, ones that attached to both unibody frame rail. Where and how the hitch is connect to the car impacts the sturdiness and how much leverage is applied to the frame. FWIW, the bumper beam is a serviceable part held on by 4 bolts per side so 8 bolts think about that. All decent hitches are mounted to the frame rail look at hitches for trucks/SUVs to get an idea.

You need to know where a particular hitch attaches to the car to know if the attachment point is reinforced and how much leverage is applied from distance of hitch receiver to axle. The Mazda 5 does not have a reinforced rear end, which is partly why it is not rated to tow or carry much tongue weight (my guess). The question is rather how much weight can it really tow before risking potential frame damage or exceeding components limits. I think youll exceed what the shocks, transmission, etc. can handle before worrying about exceeding weight limit. As noted, the car is pretty heave as it is and build in platform intended for a compact car.
Mazda 5 frame
chasis-1.jpg


IMO, the last and minor hurdle is the how capable/how much weight the car can handle. You can add things to beef these up (bigger/better brakes, coolers, shocks/springs/air coils) but my conclusion is unless you are towing waaaay above your weight class, this is a minor to non-issue if driven with care. So, the debate should be to figure out how much weight is the limit. LONG TERM feedback from actual users (with full disclose of what they are using and how they are towing) would be the real world bench mark legalities aside.

On a different but similar subject, the CX5 uses the new Sky Active (marketing name) chassis shared with the Mazda 3 and 6. I dont know if the Mazda 3 or 6 is rated to tow but look at the frame diagram and youll see the CX5s rear frame rails (where a proper hitch would be mounted too) are reinforced but not on the Mazda3.
Mazda 3 SkyActive frame
skyactiv-body_08_en.png


CX5 SkyActive frame
cx5_1.jpg




Disclaimer: Never towed a thing in my life so you can ignore pretty much everything above :D
 
Well, if the colors are the indicators of the strong parts of the unibody, then the CX5 looks to be a ladder frame built within the unibody.

Do you have a color key to describe the green and red of the 5?
 
Disclaimer: Never towed a thing in my life so you can ignore pretty much everything above :D

I have, but only with ladder frame vehicles. Small or large.

The smallest was my old 1983 Chevy S-10 with 110 hp 2.8L engine (owned from 1989 to 1995). There would be three of us 160 lb guys in the cab, two 250 lb dirtbikes in the bed, and a 350 lb. four wheeler on the trailer hooked to the ball hitch on the bumper. Beats me what the trailer weighed, it was only large enough for the 4 wheeler.

That old truck had less power, less torque, and less braking than my 5 does now. So the only advantage I suppose would be the ladder frame.

Speaking of the ball hitch mounted to the bumper, that bumper was only held to the ladder frame by a handful of bolts, too.

The national speed limit back then was only 55 mph, so it wasn't the challenge it would be today with a 75 mph speed limit.

Just thinking out loud here as I've never towed a thing in a unibody vehicle. Yet. :)
 
You know, I fully forgot in my above post that a ladder frame usually means having a rear drive axle. I've never towed anything with a only a front drive axle. That could be interesting.
 
This statement does not make sense and sounds bias. If your argument is one should not tow b/c IT IS NOT rated to do so, then why can’t you image towing if IT IS rated to tow?? I think the car’s body/style does not pass your eye test – not big or manly enough?

Disclaimer: Never towed a thing in my life so you can ignore pretty much everything above :D

Looking at the specs as is you can load about 1100lbs inside the 5. You are not to tow anything. The 5 manual states this clearly.

So what I was implying was if the 5 could tow the limit would still be 1100ish total weight. 2 adults lets say 300lbs with gear another 200lbs (being very generous here) that leaves 600lbs for a trailer (a tent at that rate is a bether solution! ). Now you are maxed out, you should be under you max tow weight for safety.

You have not towed you said, only copy/pasted some tech paper. Go to a trailer forum and see what they say when you say you are going to tow with a 5 and how you should be under your max regardless of vehicle.
 
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https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/towing-with-a-car-not-rated/105457/page1/
^^ One of the best threads on the topic of towing, insurance, and Euro regs. I’m all for discussing all things automotive but it has to make logical sense.


@ FiftySix – agree that 4 bolts is pretty strong when it comes to an attachment point. I was going off memory and recall seeing something I did not like. Went back to my pic and remember the issue is more on that attachment point or how/where it was connected to the car. The 4 bolts are attached to a “not so sturdy” vertical panel. The welds also leave a lot to be desired.

I don't have a color key for the Mazda 5 pic but I would conclude that since the Mazda 5 uses the same platform as the old Mazda 3 (refer to “current model” chassis pic of the Mazda 3’s SkyActive diagram), and the color code while different but almost identical placement and intensity leads me to believe the “current model” Mazda 3 diagram = our Mazda 5.

RWD for towing makes sense due to heavy tongue weight scenarios where it could lift the front end where FWD may not get proper traction. I don’t think anyone here is going near that.


I think this topic would have driven some of you bananas.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123831570-The-elusive-2%94-receiver-hitch
or doing this.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...hitch-install-on-lt-’10&p=6216591#post6216591
 
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/towing-with-a-car-not-rated/105457/page1/
^^ One of the best threads on the topic of towing, insurance, and Euro regs. I’m all for discussing all things automotive but it has to make logical sense.


@ FiftySix – agree that 4 bolts is pretty strong when it comes to an attachment point. I was going off memory and recall seeing something I did not like. Went back to my pic and remember the issue is more on that attachment point or how/where it was connected to the car. The 4 bolts are attached to a “not so sturdy” vertical panel. The welds also leave a lot to be desired.

I don't have a color key for the Mazda 5 pic but I would conclude that since the Mazda 5 uses the same platform as the old Mazda 3 (refer to “current model” chassis pic of the Mazda 3’s SkyActive diagram), and the color code while different but almost identical placement and intensity leads me to believe the “current model” Mazda 3 diagram = our Mazda 5.

RWD for towing makes sense due to heavy tongue weight scenarios where it could lift the front end where FWD may not get proper traction. I don’t think anyone here is going near that.


I think this topic would have driven some of you bananas.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123831570-The-elusive-2%94-receiver-hitch
or doing this.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...hitch-install-on-lt-’10&p=6216591#post6216591

There it is in your first link. European regulations call for a lighter tongue weight and a lower highway speed.

Since here in the USA everyone is expected to maintain higher highway speeds that the towing regulations would be different.

Interesting.
 
There it is in your first link. European regulations call for a lighter tongue weight and a lower highway speed.

Since here in the USA everyone is expected to maintain higher highway speeds that the towing regulations would be different.

Interesting.



We enjoyed our trip out west so much using the 250lb motorcycle popup camper that we decided to make a trip to Maine to see the fall colors. We took something a little larger this time. Got to say that the 5 wasn't the fastest going up hills but coming down it could easily hit 100 mph. Lets talk about gas milage. I'm glad it's a auto. If it was a stick every 100 to 150 miles I would had to stop and take gas out. Only time I really had a problem was when the front wheels lost contact with the road because of the high tongue weight. I like it when the wheels would come off the ground going down hills. The front end raise up add acted like a wind brake to slow the 5 down. Just so happens that next week my sister-in-law is having her house relocated. We're going to move it with the 5. The house is only a two story so it shouldn't be much trouble. Why use a overrated semi when you have a 5.
 

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We enjoyed our trip out west so much using the 250lb motorcycle popup camper that we decided to make a trip to Maine to see the fall colors. We took something a little larger this time. Got to say that the 5 wasn't the fastest going up hills but coming down it could easily hit 100 mph. Lets talk about gas milage. I'm glad it's a auto. If it was a stick every 100 to 150 miles I would had to stop and take gas out. Only time I really had a problem was when the front wheels lost contact with the road because of the high tongue weight. I like it when the wheels would come off the ground going down hills. The front end raise up add acted like a wind brake to slow the 5 down. Just so happens that next week my sister-in-law is having her house relocated. We're going to move it with the 5. The house is only a two story so it shouldn't be much trouble. Why use a overrated semi when you have a 5.

That's a great photo and definitely not a 250 lb. pop up camper. :D

I like the bit about the front wheels coming up. I have to say the only time I've experienced that is in riding wheelies on motorcycles, never in a car. :D
 

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