The very first 400bhp SPEED3!!!

[Silo]

incorrect information. First and foremost, you want methanol for the OCTANE insurance, not because your injectors are maxed out. If your injectors are maxxed out, you best be fixing that problem before adding meth injection.

Yes, the water aids in cooling the intake charge. It also helps atomize the methanol. Youre roughly at 103 octane while injecting a 50/50 mix. However, 130 octane is reached running 100% methanol.. i do this at the track for obvious reasons. Running straight water does nothing but cool the intake charge, without increasing octane.

I said nothing different... your points about octane might be valid (I doubt the 103 octane calculation however) but not my argument. Also you are not just cooling the intake charge when you inject past intercooler but as well the actual combustion. This in fact has a higher effect on knock protection then the a slight increase of octane number, which can not be 103 as you stated before with liquid methanol having a R+M/2 rating of just 99.

 

[whooosh]

all I can say is Great!
this is good news regardless of his list of mods
400HP MZR for the common man is good news for me

 

[TRSpeed3]

incorrect information. First and foremost, you want methanol for the OCTANE insurance, not because your injectors are maxed out. If your injectors are maxxed out, you best be fixing that problem before adding meth injection.

Yes, the water aids in cooling the intake charge. It also helps atomize the methanol. Youre roughly at 103 octane while injecting a 50/50 mix. However, 130 octane is reached running 100% methanol.. i do this at the track for obvious reasons. Running straight water does nothing but cool the intake charge, without increasing octane.

Not everyone runs a 50/50 mix my buddy runs an 80/20 mix on his evo...The 50/50 didnt do to much to his car...I guess the mix just depends on mods and how much tunning you wanna do....i will probably run a 60/40 or 70/30......

 

[TRSpeed3]

If you want to calculate the amount of water you need just follow this spreadsheet is not that hard.

I made my own kit from some off the shelf parts and some Devil's own On-Line stuff.

2 Quart tank lasted about 2.5 weeks.

Here is the link for my Water/Meth DIY

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2326730

Wat failsafe are you running???

 

[Refonbass]

funny how this turned into a thread dedicated to water/meth discussion...

to answer the boost question I'm running 18lbs.

 

[TRSpeed3]

funny how this turned into a thread dedicated to water/meth discussion...

to answer the boost question I'm running 18lbs.

Wat meth kit are you running???

 

[Metal MP5]

yeah well its great =) awesome numbers and until this thread, i didnt know much about meth/water injection. now i want it on all my cars lol

 

[ERIC-TC]

Wat failsafe are you running???

I was running an air-temp gauge right before the throttle body. If I saw the temps creep up then I knew that I had to dial a little more Water/Meth

I had a progressive controller that matched pump duty-cycle to PSI level. So I could make adjustments as needed.

 

[madeye moody]

Thanks Antoine (thumb)

Tough question to answer unfortunately for the reasons TRSpeed3 stated. The quantity and duration of the spray will depend on the running conditions of the engine. Our (upcoming) meth kit uses a MAP-RPM table to indicate to the controller how much to spray. So really you'll probably be spraying some water/meth whenever you're in boost. With that said, we know of many people running water/meth on daily drivers, so as long as you don't boost too much on your daily commute, a gallon of water/meth can actually last you a pretty long time. I wish I could give you a better approximation, but there are a lot of variables unfortunately. Water/meth isn't metered the same way, say, a standard shot (50hp, 75hp, 100hp, etc.) of nitrous is.

It seems interesting that the kits run only on MAF and MAP rather than going the extra level and adding a temp sensor input after the intercooler. What about throttle position? In most cases the only time you need the meth injection is running higher levels of boost and/or higher throttle pos and higher intake temps. If the intake charge is cool enough then the engine will have no need of the water-meth injection.
I've been considering water-meth since the day I bought this thing but I'm more or less peeping about to see what successes other people have had.
Therefore I'll probably take measurements of the intake temps vs. rpm and boost pressure and plot the data to see when the most likely time to inject it.

MAF will tell you the exact airflow coming into the engine but it says nothing of pressure ratio or intake charge temp. You can have larger amounts of airflow into the engine when the engine is not under boost at higher rpm than you can at low rpm with boost. For example, with a 100%VE engine 7psi boost at 3000rpm is equivalent to 4500rpm WOT with no boost or probably 6000rpm part throttle. I'm sure if you dial it it then for the most part it will spray around the right times but there will be times when it is spraying unecessarily if the system injects only on a specific MAF voltage.
Honestly I imagine only temp, rpm, and throttle position would be required to properly inject water-meth.

 

[camrycev6]

I have one big question:

How much would ALL of this cost? (Installation, parts, tuning, etc.) In other words, if I just wanted to take my car, hand it over to you (or someone like you), what would I pay for the whole 9 yards?

 

[laloosh]

intallation free since your doing it yourself. Intake around 300, tbe around 1200, piggy back i think is around 700, so your at 2200 and not you gotta buy the meth injection kit which if i had to guess is around 400-500. With custom tunning you under 3 grand

 

[CaSHMeRe]

$300-$400 parts ... install and tuning, probably another $500-$600

that would be my guess. close to $1000 for the whole sha bang

 

[camrycev6]

$300-$400 parts ... install and tuning, probably another $500-$600

that would be my guess. close to $1000 for the whole sha bang

What? The intake alone is around $300, how could that be it for the parts?

 

[laloosh]

Im pretty sure cash was talking strictly about the meth injection/custom tune

 

[camrycev6]

intallation free since your doing it yourself. Intake around 300, tbe around 1200, piggy back i think is around 700, so your at 2200 and not you gotta buy the meth injection kit which if i had to guess is around 400-500. With custom tunning you under 3 grand

Thanks...well the installation wouldn't be free for me, because I don't have the equipment or experience to put in a Turbo-back system.

 

[camrycev6]

Im pretty sure cash was talking strictly about the meth injection/custom tune

Ah...got it.

 

[laloosh]

equipemnt? all you need is a jack, jackstand and some basic tools. Unless you dont have them. Doing a turboback is not like installing cams, its straight forward but some of the bolts are a pita to get too.

 

[camrycev6]

You are probably right. The CAI looks much harder to install than the downpipe and that is already done. It is too bad Mazda doesn't offer a downpipe...I would have one is a second if it weren't for the warranty issues.

 

[Haltech]

I said nothing different... your points about octane might be valid (I doubt the 103 octane calculation however) but not my argument. Also you are not just cooling the intake charge when you inject past intercooler but as well the actual combustion. This in fact has a higher effect on knock protection then the a slight increase of octane number, which can not be 103 as you stated before with liquid methanol having a R+M/2 rating of just 99.

Its 103 Octane with 50 water mix water...

130 Octane unmixed.... VP Methanol...

 

[Haltech]

It seems interesting that the kits run only on MAF and MAP rather than going the extra level and adding a temp sensor input after the intercooler. What about throttle position? In most cases the only time you need the meth injection is running higher levels of boost and/or higher throttle pos and higher intake temps. If the intake charge is cool enough then the engine will have no need of the water-meth injection.
I've been considering water-meth since the day I bought this thing but I'm more or less peeping about to see what successes other people have had.
Therefore I'll probably take measurements of the intake temps vs. rpm and boost pressure and plot the data to see when the most likely time to inject it.

MAF will tell you the exact airflow coming into the engine but it says nothing of pressure ratio or intake charge temp. You can have larger amounts of airflow into the engine when the engine is not under boost at higher rpm than you can at low rpm with boost. For example, with a 100%VE engine 7psi boost at 3000rpm is equivalent to 4500rpm WOT with no boost or probably 6000rpm part throttle. I'm sure if you dial it it then for the most part it will spray around the right times but there will be times when it is spraying unecessarily if the system injects only on a specific MAF voltage.
Honestly I imagine only temp, rpm, and throttle position would be required to properly inject water-meth.

You have to look at your MAF's voltage as the throttle position. 1-2 volts is 1/4 throttle roughly. 2.5-3.5 is half throttle.. Anyhing past 3.5001 volts is consider WOT.

Just because youre spraying based off voltage, whether in boost or not, youre not going to hurt anything. Youre combustion chamber will be cleaner, engine will run cooler, so its win win.

I wouldnt trust a intake temp sensor after the intercooler. Have you considered the temps while sitting at a redlight? Your meth would be spraying at idle! If i hook an autotap to my truck and go driving, my intake temp before the intercooler is a few degrees above ambient. At a redlight,the temps increase almost 40 degrees.