The Subaru Outback Wins

[Unobtanium]

technologically they are very close, but the feel/perception is totally different
Outback is still a station wagon with some wooden trim no matter what the numbers in the specs say

I agree on perception. The driveline, capacity for cargo, and functionality are very near identical though. They even share the same 8.7" ground clearance. So many people waffle on forester vs. Outback that entire Web pages are created to help with the decision and usually end with "pick which one is sexier to you because they are darn near identical".

Regardless, it seems like OP ended up with a good vehicle. Hard to go wrong with any Subaru. That said, I don't know if id pay $38k for the higher end Outback 3.6. That's CPO GLK350 territory.

 

[gettinlm]

I agree on perception. The driveline, capacity for cargo, and functionality are very near identical though. They even share the same 8.7" ground clearance. So many people waffle on forester vs. Outback that entire Web pages are created to help with the decision and usually end with "pick which one is sexier to you because they are darn near identical".

Regardless, it seems like OP ended up with a good vehicle. Hard to go wrong with any Subaru. That said, I don't know if id pay $38k for the higher end Outback 3.6. That's CPO GLK350 territory.

A GLK for $38K? Not if you want anything on it! I probably wouldn't pay $38K for an Outback either. I'll be getting my fully loaded 3.6R for closer to $34K, including a huge list of accessories. And I agree, Foresters and Outbacks compete within the brand.

 

[yrwei52]

Yeah, because you clearly know which part I was agreeing to. Mindreading is such an awesome gift, I wish you well with it!

I don't know you and I can't read your mind. All I'd said were based on your posts. When I mentioned oil burning issue on Subie's H6, ZuluCX replied: "H6 are not oil burning what the heck are you talking about?" which you agreed. When I mentioned the post #37 sylva143 said whose mother's 3.6 Outback also eats oil, ZuluCX said he has been "on Subaru forums for over 10 years" and "this is the first time I hear that there is a problem with H6 from subies"! You also replied "I agree. I have been following the Subaru forums for months, and what I hear from them (as well as numerous car sites) is that Subaru's H6 is extremely dependable, perfectly balanced, and smooth and silk." Based on your posts, I clearly know you believe H6 is extremely dependable and there is now way it will have oil burning issue!

Like I said, I don't know you and I can't read your mind. I only reply the best I can based on my knowledge and the fact.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

IMO...I'd steer clear of the '08-'10 3.7L VVEL motor. Oil consumption TSBs. Of course the '02-'06 DEs aren't much better. The 'HR in my G35 isn't an oil burner but they are now showing to have a gasket failure in some around the rear timing cover that can cause low oil pressure. It can be fixed in warranty but around $2K if not. This cheap "paper" gasket wasn't addressed until sometime in 2011 so even some of the 3.7L VHRs are affected as well. If problem is going to occur it is around the 70-80K mark.

The 370Z has a lot of coatings in the motor. Coatings were/are a huge thing, and the 370Z was/is kindof a test-bed for new technology, as was the GT-R. The main thing the GT-R got was Ford's plasma-deposited cylinder lining. The main things the 370Z got were coatings, and advanced VVT. It's got a torque curve as flat as a table-top from just off idle to just off redline, as a result, and pumps out nearly 350bhp from a 3.7L mill. Not shabby!

Anyway, part of this valve magic involves a bit of harshness, and so they wanted to cut down on friction and wear. So, they used a "DLC" or "PVD" type coating on some of the rotating assembly. There are no cams in a VQ37 motor. Each valve is lifted by its own actuator. Again...NO CAMS. So, like I said, some mechanical harshness was involved. Coatings were used to cut down on wear/friction. These coatings are somewhat difficult to get oil to stick to. If you've ever applied oil to an NiB bolt-carrier group on an M4, that's kinda sorta what I mean. Anyway, the Ester base stock, which really is just group V base stock, is a bit more tenacious at sticking to things. It lowers under-hood noise by 1-3dB or so when used in the VQ37 motor. And THAT is about it's sole use and purpose. I just ran Mobil 1 in my 370Z and it was just fine, motor-wise, at least, for the 33K miles I had it for.

 

[yrwei52]

There's no use in spitting on a fella's choice of rifles if it brings the meat home. Same goes for vehicles. You'll no doubt be happy in your Sub, good vehicle, it will faithfully serve you well for many miles to come.
One aspect of human nature we all deny because we are 'rational' is this. If a person gets what they want they tend to overlook a lot. If they get their 2nd choice, i.e. settled for something, then they nit-pick it to death. Kind of like the politician YOU voted for... ;-)
If you bought a Mazda you would forever 2nd guess the decision even though it is a superior vehicle. LOL... see, human nature kicking in there.

To the OP, enjoy your purchase! What happened here is pretty typical of what happens at pretty much any car forum (at least the other 2 that I visit on occasion). Never post in a car forum that you bought a competing vehicle, because people will generally put it down. I haven't quite figured out the reason, but I think people generally feed offended when their own purchasing decision isn't somehow validated. Anyway, good luck with the new vehicle!

Wow, there are kind, decent people paying attention. Thanks! You'd think that by picking an Outback over a Mazda, I've insulted some of these people's children or kicked their puppy (lol2)

I didn't criticize your decision of not choosing a CX-5. I even suggested a Highlander instead of Outback based on V6 power, bigger space, higher resale value, and better reliability. But since I pointed out the oil burning issue on Subie's H6, there were people who were getting offended and upset...

 

[yrwei52]

IMO...I'd steer clear of the '08-'10 3.7L VVEL motor. Oil consumption TSBs. Of course the '02-'06 DEs aren't much better. The 'HR in my G35 isn't an oil burner but they are now showing to have a gasket failure in some around the rear timing cover that can cause low oil pressure. It can be fixed in warranty but around $2K if not. This cheap "paper" gasket wasn't addressed until sometime in 2011 so even some of the 3.7L VHRs are affected as well. If problem is going to occur it is around the 70-80K mark.

The 370Z has a lot of coatings in the motor. Coatings were/are a huge thing, and the 370Z was/is kindof a test-bed for new technology, as was the GT-R. The main thing the GT-R got was Ford's plasma-deposited cylinder lining. The main things the 370Z got were coatings, and advanced VVT. It's got a torque curve as flat as a table-top from just off idle to just off redline, as a result, and pumps out nearly 350bhp from a 3.7L mill. Not shabby!
Anyway, part of this valve magic involves a bit of harshness, and so they wanted to cut down on friction and wear. So, they used a "DLC" or "PVD" type coating on some of the rotating assembly. There are no cams in a VQ37 motor. Each valve is lifted by its own actuator. Again...NO CAMS. So, like I said, some mechanical harshness was involved. Coatings were used to cut down on wear/friction. These coatings are somewhat difficult to get oil to stick to. If you've ever applied oil to an NiB bolt-carrier group on an M4, that's kinda sorta what I mean. Anyway, the Ester base stock, which really is just group V base stock, is a bit more tenacious at sticking to things. It lowers under-hood noise by 1-3dB or so when used in the VQ37 motor. And THAT is about it's sole use and purpose. I just ran Mobil 1 in my 370Z and it was just fine, motor-wise, at least, for the 33K miles I had it for.

It seems both of you are very familiar with Nissan! Although not a Nissan fan due to its lesser quality and reliability IMHO, but thanks for knowledge sharing on Nissan Z's!

 

[Unobtanium]

It seems both of you are very familiar with Nissan! Although not a Nissan fan due to its lesser quality and reliability IMHO, but thanks for knowledge sharing on Nissan Z's!

My 370Z had issues, but the motor or oil consumption were never an issue. It used 1/2 quart every 4500 mile oil change or so, and I find that completely acceptable considering I let the computer rev-match every downshift for me. Probably sucked it through the PCV.

 

[gettinlm]

I don't know you and I can't read your mind. All I'd said were based on your posts. When I mentioned oil burning issue on Subie's H6, ZuluCX replied: "H6 are not oil burning what the heck are you talking about?" which you agreed. When I mentioned the post #37 sylva143 said whose mother's 3.6 Outback also eats oil, ZuluCX said he has been "on Subaru forums for over 10 years" and "this is the first time I hear that there is a problem with H6 from subies"! You also replied "I agree. I have been following the Subaru forums for months, and what I hear from them (as well as numerous car sites) is that Subaru's H6 is extremely dependable, perfectly balanced, and smooth and silk." Based on your posts, I clearly know you believe H6 is extremely dependable and there is now way it will have oil burning issue!

Like I said, I don't know you and I can't read your mind. I only reply the best I can based on my knowledge and the fact.

Again, you try to input meaning into my words. Everything I've read leads me to believe an H6 is very dependable and will last forever, I stand by that 100%. I was agreeing with the previous poster's comment about its reliability, not whether or not he had seen anything about the oil burning issue. I never said anything about whether it does or does not burn oil. Some people have reported this, yes, but they have been in the huge minority. From most of what I've read and heard, the H6 is beloved. For example, see the Consumer Reports YouTube video where they pick the best and worst cars from 2014, and one guy names the 2015 Outback as one of his picks. He and another guy make special mention of how wonderful the H6 option engine is.

 

[ZuluCX]

GettinLm let it go, it is not worth it to argue. there is no prize to win here. You made your choice base on your taste and your research, you have done your homework. Some here have a hard time understanding things and know better than anyone on anything.

 

[gettinlm]

GettinLm let it go, it is not worth it to argue. there is no prize to win here. You made your choice base on your taste and your research, you have done your homework. Some here have a hard time understanding things and know better than anyone on anything.

How true! I thought I did let it go yesterday but awoke to more knowitall comments today. Deep breath, that's better.

 

[Unobtanium]

I do two oil changes a year on my HR to stay in warranty. This is around 6-7K miles and no noticeable oil consumption at all. Always full on the dipstick. The DE in my old '02 Maxima would be down maybe 1/3 of quart. To this day the debate goes on about what causes the DE oil consumption issues. Was it substandard rings? Did pre-cats disintegrate and get sucked back into motor? If the HR didn't have this gasket defect it would probably be considered one of the most reliable Nissan motors since the old VG series of the 80s. Nissan continues to use the HR in their Infiniti hybrids after the VVEL (VHR) came out in the '08 G37 Coupe..

EDIT: I've seen quite a number of HRs hitting 200K miles now so the gasket defect isn't a given but I imagine those that really thrash on their rigs see it more often. I'm fairly sedate with my cars these days.

I personally think Nissan's best motor was the SR20DE. It's just...bulletproof. And pretty potent for its era!

 

[minnesotaart]

I thought that this article would shed some light on just how tight the Subaru market is and why the OP is having trouble finding his Subaru

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/subaru-sells-one-fastest-growing-123004620.html

 

[gettinlm]

I thought that this article would shed some light on just how tight the Subaru market is and why the OP is having trouble finding his Subaru

Thanks for that. Love it.

 

[Unobtanium]

I thought that this article would shed some light on just how tight the Subaru market is and why the OP is having trouble finding his Subaru

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/subaru-sells-one-fastest-growing-123004620.html

Interesting. I could buy any model Subaru I wanted any time, though. I understand not all people are as resourceful.

That said...I may not ever buy a Subaru, depending on how this shakes out. It sounds like Subaru is at a cross-roads that could either catapult it into higher levels of quality, or destroy it like GM was in the 60's when they bit off more than they could chew and the downward spiral began when their reach exceeded their grasp.

 

[gettinlm]

Went cruising around random dealerships yesterday and still think that the 2016 CX-5 is quite sharp. Congrats to those who got one. However, I still plan on ordering my Outback within the next week or two.

 

[Srad600]

Just throwing this in because before I bought my CX-5 I was also considering the outback as my only other option. I personally hated the way the CVT felt with the 4banger, totally gutless, so I crossed that off my list. Then I started looking at the 3.6R, and to get it optioned out the way I wanted, I had to get the top of the line model which raised the price higher than I wanted. Despite that I was still considering it, until I found out there were only 2 in the whole state of California, with the options and color combination I wanted (love that Carbide Grey color). Every dealer I talked to wanted an arm and a leg for the car, because they had to barter with the one dealer who actually had the car on the lot. Then I was asked to order a '16 and wait...no one could tell me for how long. I gave up. I do understand the Outback love affair though.

Ideally I like the more understated looks of the Outback, but I'm really happy that I went with the CX-5. It's a bit flashy, but has everything I wanted and more, for a MUCH better price than the outback...all without that horrid CVT.

 

[gettinlm]

Just throwing this in because before I bought my CX-5 I was also considering the outback as my only other option. I personally hated the way the CVT felt with the 4banger, totally gutless, so I crossed that off my list. Then I started looking at the 3.6R, and to get it optioned out the way I wanted, I had to get the top of the line model which raised the price higher than I wanted. Despite that I was still considering it, until I found out there were only 2 in the whole state of California, with the options and color combination I wanted (love that Carbide Grey color). Every dealer I talked to wanted an arm and a leg for the car, because they had to barter with the one dealer who actually had the car on the lot. Then I was asked to order a '16 and wait...no one could tell me for how long. I gave up. I do understand the Outback love affair though.

Ideally I like the more understated looks of the Outback, but I'm really happy that I went with the CX-5. It's a bit flashy, but has everything I wanted and more, for a MUCH better price than the outback...all without that horrid CVT.

Subaru's CVT is one of the best in the business (2nd to maybe Honda), but I agree, it's much better with the 3.6. That's what we plan on getting.

 

[Unobtanium]

Subaru's CVT is one of the best in the business (2nd to maybe Honda), but I agree, it's much better with the 3.6. That's what we plan on getting.

I was looking at a Pilot and some other Honda products, and I don't know about that. Honda seems to have some transmission/engine issues of late. I'd trust the Subaru transmission more. Was hoping you had your Outback already and were giving an update, lol

 

[erhayes]

Hmmm. The Subaru designed CVT allows faster acceleration and better fuel mileage than the 4/5 speed AT. Originally I did not like CVT transmissions but, the modern ones are great and I now think they are the future. Ed

 

[inlinev]

Honda seems to have some transmission/engine issues of late.

what issue is that?