Well, there's still a ton of variables there that need to be taken into account (torque curve, gearing, etc.).
The MS6 Build-a-Beast is coming very soon...(Pics)
- Thread starter chriscecc914
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Well, there's still a ton of variables there that need to be taken into account (torque curve, gearing, etc.).
Powerslave
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- mps 3
ahhhh... the threads of our lives...lol
Mazdaspeedguy
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Update? Other then the pissing match please! 
chriscecc914
Member
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- 06 MS6
my tuner does his work over night. more results to come. i guess he got ride of fuel cut at this point. he's gonna call cp-e and find out more.
Powerslave
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cool! it will work out it just takes work like anything else, thats why you pay a tuner...
mrlilguy157
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- 07 mazdaspeed 3
yay, the way it should be done.
ATE BALLER
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- MAZDASPEED 6
Another possibility would be to replace the map sensor with a 5v 3bar sensor. Supra guys do it alot to get to some impressive numbers w/o a full blown standalone. Then that 4.Xv clamp that we suposedly need would equate to more like 35psi, instead of 17. You'd have all the headroom you need. There's no telling how the car would react to it in closed loop though, and I don't know of any direct swaps. You'd be fine out of boost, but we're really not sure if open loop is always in effect while in boost. If open loop is triggered by the presence of boost, that should do the trick. Your tune will only work in open loop, so you would just need to add the fuel to match the scaled map voltages. Most if not all aftermarket map sensors are linear, so that shouldn't be too tough for a descent tuner. Problems would only occur if the ecu let the car boost w/o going into open loop, but if you let the standback control boost, then boost would still be reduced by the ecu during such an event. Such an event would include the "slow mode" or "limp mode" that happens once in a blue moon. I've only had that happen to me once in the 2+ years I've owned this car, and that was in early 06, before I had any mods done to the car.
Just a thought though.
Just a thought though.
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mrlilguy157
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- 07 mazdaspeed 3
good idea. i'll look into it and see what I can come up with.
ATE BALLER
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- MAZDASPEED 6
One additional thought on that is that a larger maf housing or even sensor may be needed as well. Wouldn't want the maf to be maxing out while the map sensor is relaying "normal" signals. The standback might be able to scale the maf signal enough though. Don't have one to play with, so I'm not sure.
Chris, any update on the high psi outcome?
as for the map sensor, once its clipped down to under 4 volts i dont think it becomes a problem. The problem with fuel/boost cut after the fuel pump/ map issues lies somehwere in the way the car reads temperature. Either the maf is freaking out (im leaning towards this) or the temperature sensor on the map is freaking out (doubtful)
as for the map sensor, once its clipped down to under 4 volts i dont think it becomes a problem. The problem with fuel/boost cut after the fuel pump/ map issues lies somehwere in the way the car reads temperature. Either the maf is freaking out (im leaning towards this) or the temperature sensor on the map is freaking out (doubtful)
PerformanceRacing
Member
I believe he already has a 3" MAF if he installed the one off his turbo kit.
Factory maf is just under 2.75" I believe?
Factory maf is just under 2.75" I believe?
ATE BALLER
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- MAZDASPEED 6
I agree that the temperature is deffinately playing a factor, however if the sensors are sending lower voltages that corellate with each other and make the ecu think there is less air coming in at a slower rate, it "shouldn't" resort to fuel cut, even at lower temperatures. If you're getting on it, and the ecu only sees 2.8v (~25psi on a 3 bar map, but less than 12psi on the stocker), and it sees a maf reading that correllates with the map voltage, then it should not fuel cut regardless of the temperature, unless it sees the rail pressure drop off. I would prefer it to fuel cut though if the rail pressure was falling. Furthermore, by not needing to clamp the map anymore (since the boost won't be getting high enough max out a bigger map sensor) the ecu still sees the voltage increasing, instead of plateauing(sp). This is important because it will continue to raise it's fuel levels, whereas, when it sees a plateau, it will also plateau the fuel trims rate, thus fuel trim adjustment via standback will also plateau, even though the amount of air coming in is still inreasing. That is where my concerns with clamping come from.
on my personal testing, the map clamp has zero effect on fuel or timing. when cpe told me this i was a bit skeptical, so i tried it out and they were right. my ic and itnake will be in shortly, if i hit boost cut with it, btw i have nothing clamped right now, then we know that theory can be thrown out as well. mods will be i/ic/tbe/bpv/fuel pump well c friday night.
ATE BALLER
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- MAZDASPEED 6
And, if you don't...?
I don't see why it wouldn't have an effect on fueling. If it doesn't, I don't see why it would trigger fuel cut. I'd be interested to see at least some logs of maf voltage vs. injector duty cyle and injector pulse width and rail pressure. One clamped at say 3.5v and one unclamped. I would particularly be interested in what happens to the injectors after the clamp is in effect. If there is no difference in any of the fuel components activity (I doubt that would be the case), then maybe we need to look into different maf sensors. Either way, the ecu isn't able to do it's job with the readings it's being given.
I don't see why it wouldn't have an effect on fueling. If it doesn't, I don't see why it would trigger fuel cut. I'd be interested to see at least some logs of maf voltage vs. injector duty cyle and injector pulse width and rail pressure. One clamped at say 3.5v and one unclamped. I would particularly be interested in what happens to the injectors after the clamp is in effect. If there is no difference in any of the fuel components activity (I doubt that would be the case), then maybe we need to look into different maf sensors. Either way, the ecu isn't able to do it's job with the readings it's being given.
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www.cp-e.com
Member
Hey Chris! Just spoke with your tuner yesterday and had a great conversation. I think you guys have a lot of difficult hurdles ahead of you, and I told your tuner the same thing. Luckily you've got a large knowledge base to utilize here, and a lot of smart people are working to fix some of the quirks these cars exhibit. So I think what you're trying to accomplish is absolutely doable.
You two are more or less pioneers in the sense that no one else has done what you're doing, and people are going to learn a lot from your experiences. We'll provide you with any tuning/product help that we can because we're probably as excited to see what these SPEED vehicles can do with the right combination of parts.
If you have anything that you'd like to discuss with me, you're welcome to give me a call at the shop (301-576-6142) or email me, jgartenhaus@cp-e.com. Good luck to you!
Powerslave
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- mps 3
thats a good point! its not like the evo or sti where a million peolpe have done it, he is uncharted territory and will be the "grandmaster ninja"..lol of the forums.
chriscecc914
Member
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- 06 MS6
BAD NEWS
Today I pulled my car out of the shop where it was being tuned. My tuner gave up and told me that he could not figure out how to get around the fuel cut/ throttle plate issues. He told me he would look into it longer but it would be at a high cost for hours of R & D.
The other day I gave him the number for cp-e (to get advice on how to solve some of these issues) and he spoke with J Gartenhaus. My tuner told me that in a nutshell CP-e pretty much told him that they dont tune these cars and they dont have any advice on how to tune my car. I dont understand why they would say that since they engineered the standback.
My tuner made 300whp at 12psi on the dyno. I took my car out on the street today and it was hitting 15psi and the car was stuttering and popping. So im currently looking for someone to guide me in tuning my car either myself or with someone who actually wants to tune it.
Today I pulled my car out of the shop where it was being tuned. My tuner gave up and told me that he could not figure out how to get around the fuel cut/ throttle plate issues. He told me he would look into it longer but it would be at a high cost for hours of R & D.
The other day I gave him the number for cp-e (to get advice on how to solve some of these issues) and he spoke with J Gartenhaus. My tuner told me that in a nutshell CP-e pretty much told him that they dont tune these cars and they dont have any advice on how to tune my car. I dont understand why they would say that since they engineered the standback.
My tuner made 300whp at 12psi on the dyno. I took my car out on the street today and it was hitting 15psi and the car was stuttering and popping. So im currently looking for someone to guide me in tuning my car either myself or with someone who actually wants to tune it.
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big surpises there. like i said, keep the boost low untill a real tunning option is available. you cant tune what you created with a simple piggy back. you need a flash
im not trying to be mean, it sucks, but thers no other way. The more you fuel cut, the more you stutter, the more you increase your chance of damaging that build motor.
im not trying to be mean, it sucks, but thers no other way. The more you fuel cut, the more you stutter, the more you increase your chance of damaging that build motor.
chriscecc914
Member
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- 06 MS6
their will never be a flash for the MS6. My tuner has alot of ties with Cobb since he tunes the majority or Evo's and Sti's. Cobb told him MS3, not MS6. So im in a bad position right now.
