Technical question on drive train conversion

[funkyman]

If the MS drive train or room for the drive shaft etc is identical or close to that of a Speed 6,can the MS front drive theoretically be moved from front to rear.Any ideas or possible inputs from an engineering point of view would be appreciated,of course weight distribution should also be taken into consideration.
Technically we would just need to replace the drive shaft and move the front set up to the back don`t we.I see a whole lot of possibilities and miracles in the horizon if this can be achieved with a moderate budget,using possibly ford focus derived spare parts or similar aftermarket components.
I think that this would be the first step to an ultimate power goal and a full remedy to an ever overshadowing traction problem for the MS.I`m sure all you MS fans and the world would drawl over a wide body MS with 295 rear tires and HP under the hood.

 

[jersey_emt]

Anything is possible with enough $$$...

 

[Super Unique]

The speed 6 uses a getrag transaxle with a pto in the housing, which transfers power to the rear unit via a long drive shaft. The speed 3 tranny does not have the PTO for this setup, and to be honest, for true rear drive you would need to rotate the engine orientation to do it properly. This would be a LOT of work and fabrication. You will need to rework the front suspension, source a rear axle assembly, differential and gears that can take the power but still be narrow enough to fit properly under the car (which was never designed to contain a rear diff), lose the front halfshafts and rework the front hubs, redo the exhaust for the driveshaft area. This all gets really complicated and expensive in a hurry. I just don't see the average enthusiast taking on such a big project for little gain long term.

 

[wisniaPl]

it will be cheaper and less work to get sti

 

[oaklandopen]

what about puting the 2.3mzr in the miata?

 

[RelliMS3]

what about puting the 2.3mzr in the miata?

yeah, why bring the rear drive to the engine when you can bring the engine to the rear drive

 

[oaklandopen]

yeah, why bring the rear drive to the engine when you can bring the engine to the rear drive

i think i'd rather do that than some of the ppl that put small block V8's in the miatas....those ppl are fuqing insane

 

[tiagotiago]

I remember reading than in some markets (I think Japan or Austraila) the Mazda3 is sold with some form of AWD, though it was only with the 2.0L engine(or a 1.6L), not with the 2.3L, never mind our MKR DISI. I'm sure space for the system could be worked out, but as others said, it would be a shitload of money for the conversion, and the cheapest way would probably be to go out and buy a car made with AWD from the start.

The Miata with our engine is a very tempting idea.. though that's gonna take quite a hood bulge to fit it properly.

 

[oaklandopen]

I remember reading than in some markets (I think Japan or Austraila) the Mazda3 is sold with some form of AWD, though it was only with the 2.0L engine(or a 1.6L), not with the 2.3L, never mind our MKR DISI. I'm sure space for the system could be worked out, but as others said, it would be a shitload of money for the conversion, and the cheapest way would probably be to go out and buy a car made with AWD from the start.

The Miata with our engine is a very tempting idea.. though that's gonna take quite a hood bulge to fit it properly.

i was thinking in the 2nd gen miata (i believe they're on 3) i used to have a 99 that i had some prospects for but never got off the ground (due to the wife and kid factor). now i want one back for the same reason. but since i don't have unkteenmillion dollars i might go for the jackson racing supercharger kit or whatever

 

[funkyman]

OK assuming a company spent 50-75k developing it.Howmany of you would be interetsed in paying 5-6k for a conversion.Even if we had 15 buyers it would still be very feasable.Current super diff is usable in the rear isn`t it.

 

[funkyman]

Howabout protege garage taking on a project like that.Perhaps they can get Mazda to actually sponsor them.I believe the AWD drive was sponsered with the aid of Mazda coroperation.Read article below.

DG Motorsports AWD Mazdaspeed Mazda3 Rallye Car

What's special about it?
You may think the DG Motorsports AWD Mazdaspeed Mazda3 Rallye Car looks like a typical hyped-up sport compact at the SEMA show. But the truth of the matter is that Mazdaspeed and the team at DG Motorsports in Oceanside, California, have done more than build the average tuner car.

We'll say that they've built the car that Mazda should have created in the first place.

We like the Mazdaspeed Mazda3, but can't help but feel that its explosive power potential could be better harnessed by all-wheel drive. You know, like the system in the Mazdaspeed Mazda6. It turns out that David Green of DG Motorsports apparently agrees, because his company has created an STI killer by transplanting the drivetrain of the Mazdaspeed 6 into the confines of a Mazdaspeed 3.

The great miracle of it all, according to Jack Stavana, Mazda's director of accessory operations, has been that the Mazdaspeed 3 chassis required very few modifications to accept the all-wheel drivetrain. There was adequate room in the floorpan's central tunnel to sit the driveshaft just a hair below the chassis line thanks to a little fabrication. The Mazdaspeed 6 rear differential is supported by the stock Mazdaspeed 3 rear suspension, which DG says has proven more than adequate. The brakes received a minor makeover courtesy of new pads and rotors.

The enhanced stoppers hide behind 18-inch Rays wheels, which have been fitted with sticky Toyo R888 tires. Considering the tire choice and a ride height that's 1.5 inches lower than before, we'll assume this "Rallye Car" has been set up for an asphalt stage. The other clue to the car's tarmac-stage setup is the swath of custom carbon-fiber pieces, ranging from the front spoiler to the rear aero diffuser. Also note that the body is slightly wider than stock and there is a carbon-fiber ram-air hood scoop to help the engine ingest cold air.

The air enters by way of a cold-air intake into an engine that is otherwise stock. That's no bad thing, since the factory turbocharged inline-4 pulls hard even at speed. With the help of a custom dual exhaust, the engine is said to be good for an additional 30 horsepower over stock, so we're talking a total of 293 hp.

Inside, it's all business. Sparco seats replace the stockers and are equipped with Sparco five-point racing harnesses. There's little left of the factory interior, with a lot more raw paint visible than factory plastics and carpeting.


Mazdaspeed and DG Motorsports have built the Mazdaspeed 3 that should have been. Build it, Mazda. — James Tate, Contributor

 

[tiagotiago]

i was thinking in the 2nd gen miata (i believe they're on 3) i used to have a 99 that i had some prospects for but never got off the ground (due to the wife and kid factor). now i want one back for the same reason. but since i don't have unkteenmillion dollars i might go for the jackson racing supercharger kit or whatever

No dobut a very interesting experiment!! Especially if you'd already put some tought into in. But yeah, a supercharger kit designed for it will probably be cheaper/less of a hassle.

 

[tiagotiago]

Howabout protege garage taking on a project like that.Perhaps they can get Mazda to actually sponsor them.I believe the AWD drive was sponsered with the aid of Mazda coroperation.Read article below.

DG Motorsports AWD Mazdaspeed Mazda3 Rallye Car

What's special about it?
You may think the DG Motorsports AWD Mazdaspeed Mazda3 Rallye Car looks like a typical hyped-up sport compact at the SEMA show. But the truth of the matter is that Mazdaspeed and the team at DG Motorsports in Oceanside, California, have done more than build the average tuner car.

We'll say that they've built the car that Mazda should have created in the first place.

We like the Mazdaspeed Mazda3, but can't help but feel that its explosive power potential could be better harnessed by all-wheel drive. You know, like the system in the Mazdaspeed Mazda6. It turns out that David Green of DG Motorsports apparently agrees, because his company has created an STI killer by transplanting the drivetrain of the Mazdaspeed 6 into the confines of a Mazdaspeed 3.

The great miracle of it all, according to Jack Stavana, Mazda's director of accessory operations, has been that the Mazdaspeed 3 chassis required very few modifications to accept the all-wheel drivetrain. There was adequate room in the floorpan's central tunnel to sit the driveshaft just a hair below the chassis line thanks to a little fabrication. The Mazdaspeed 6 rear differential is supported by the stock Mazdaspeed 3 rear suspension, which DG says has proven more than adequate. The brakes received a minor makeover courtesy of new pads and rotors.

The enhanced stoppers hide behind 18-inch Rays wheels, which have been fitted with sticky Toyo R888 tires. Considering the tire choice and a ride height that's 1.5 inches lower than before, we'll assume this "Rallye Car" has been set up for an asphalt stage. The other clue to the car's tarmac-stage setup is the swath of custom carbon-fiber pieces, ranging from the front spoiler to the rear aero diffuser. Also note that the body is slightly wider than stock and there is a carbon-fiber ram-air hood scoop to help the engine ingest cold air.

The air enters by way of a cold-air intake into an engine that is otherwise stock. That's no bad thing, since the factory turbocharged inline-4 pulls hard even at speed. With the help of a custom dual exhaust, the engine is said to be good for an additional 30 horsepower over stock, so we're talking a total of 293 hp.

Inside, it's all business. Sparco seats replace the stockers and are equipped with Sparco five-point racing harnesses. There's little left of the factory interior, with a lot more raw paint visible than factory plastics and carpeting.


Mazdaspeed and DG Motorsports have built the Mazdaspeed 3 that should have been. Build it, Mazda. James Tate, Contributor

With sponsorship, or with another very good reason to be brand loyal it would probably be relativly cheap, like you stated in the other post about a dedicated company picking up the tab on the research/design and then selling the kit. I can see people wanting to buy it.

But if I were going to do a rally, and had no business commitment with Mazda, I'd probably skip the hassle of shaking down the car and dealing with it's teething problems and just buy someting with AWD built in from the start.

I don't recall the exact threads, but I remember reading somewhere here that the AWD system used in the Speed6 isn't as good as the setups Subaru/Mitsubishi has. Also, wasn't our hood very well researched, and that in the studies they made, found out that a hood scoop was not the best solution for this car??