Switched from SRI to stock, throtle response better?

black_ninja23

Member
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Mazdaspeed 3
Has anyone else done this? Switched from SRI or CAI back to stock? I just recently changed mine back to stock and it seems to have better throtle response. But I do notice that it doesn't pull as hard above 4500 RPMs. I dont' know, maybe it's because I don't hear the turbo spooling that it feels like it's responding better?

I'm interested if anyone else has had this experience...

I'm going to sell the SRI, and I might just get a ********** intake hose and a COBB turbo inlet, and maybe a K&N drop in air filter.
 
i done that be4. i do realized better throtle response with stock intake box, but with aftermarket intake u can definately feel power after 4500rpm....
 
When your IAT hits 88F or higher, the ecu pulls timing. The stock airbox is shielded from the engine bay heat, and even has a ducting system to pull cool air up into the box while the car is moving.

A short ram sits in the engine bay, sucking in engine bay heat, and depending on your driving conditions can and will have higher intake temps then stock, or with a cold air intake.

Additionally, if you are not running a proper maf air straightener, you'll have odd throttle issues due to maf voltages being out of wack. I don't know what short ram you had, but the cobb has had some issues with warping over time (with its air straightener), which can cause response issues and odd LTFT's.
 
I noticed the powerband shifts between the stock airbox and a SRI. I also think because of the additional midrange power with the SRI the low RPM power and throttle reponse feels less than with the airbox.
 
not entirely. my logical sense says the stock air box has better low end because it doesnt have a WOOSH of air in the low end power range. your car only requires a lot of air at higher rpms. the stock air box is very restrictive giving you ok throttle response down low but nothing in the top end. its opposite with an aftermarket. i think your going to lose a little at take off with any aftermarket intake. but when your shifting or above 2-3k your car will pull so much harder with an aftermarket intake. to get the best intake set-up your best bet would be to get an SRI and figure a way to shield it from the engine bay. im actually going to try this tonight with my battery box around the intake cone to see if i can get it to be directly shielded from the engine bay but open to the front end. i believe begi did this but thir intake is like 387948912 dollars. lol.
 
I think it comes down to a "relative" feeling you get between the 2. Because the stock box doesn't allow for much top end power the low end is so much more noticeable. With a SRI the midrange and topend is so good that the low end doesn't feel as punchy as it once did. Its all relative.

If you were to limit boost to 5psi until you reached 4k rpms and then allowed for full boost, you would swear up and down that your car felt faster because of the sudden onset of power. Same thing with the intake scenarios.
 
I noticed the same thing when I tested a CAI on mine. The low end felt a bit less responsive but the car pulled harder above 4K all the way to 6K. Another thing I noticed was this ridiculous steel ring inside the accordion flex elbow on the stock intake. This ring is probably 4mm steel and the ends of it stick out into the intake stream! Like this car needs even more restrictions in the intake for cripes sakes.

Makes me wonder how the car would pull with:
  • Stock airbox
  • aftermarket elbow
  • Aftermarket high flow panel filter
  • Aftermarket turbo inlet
 
With respect, guys I'm having a bit of trouble understanding the science of this low end v. high end theory.

The best, highest flowing intake system is an open source of clean cold properly metered air directly into the throttle body. That cold air is totally unrestriced in such a system and would be pulled in the sytem by vacuum from the engine.

Putting any restriction into the system ahead of the throttle body will have no effect whatsoever unless the restriction is greater than the maximum cubic feet per minute requirements of the engine at any given moment in time. That means that high flow requirements would be affected first, once the restriction becomes relevant, but not until then.

Our stock air box does not permit air to flow through the MAF and the throttle body at the maximum usable rate for even the stock engine. That's why aftermarket intakes, either SRI or CAI have the potential, if designed properly, to produce good power increases.

But I can't understand how a low flowing intake would increase throttle response.

This is not unlike the issue on the exhaust side. Many people believe that exhaust tube diameter has an effect to torque -- small tube, better torque, big tubes, higher horsepower. Well, with a turbo engine this becomes irrelevant once the tubes reach sufficient size to match the flow rate on the intake side, because backpressure is irrelevant. The limitation is not in the exhaust tubing, but in the size of the turbo exhaust outlet.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I just don't see the science in a theory that the stock box would be more "responsive" to throttle changes that a higher flowing system, either SRI or CAI.

And since cold air carries more oxygen molecules that warm air, I think that any true CAI system has the potential to produce more power if it is drawing air that is at true atmosphere temperature rather that air that has been warmed up by the engine, especially when the vehicle is sittlng in traffic.

Just one opinion, and a request for the science to justify the basis for the stock air box being more "responsive."
 
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The best, highest flowing intake system is an open source of clean cold properly metered air directly into the throttle body. That cold air is totally unrestriced in such a system and would be pulled in the sytem by vacuum from the engine.

Putting any restriction into the system ahead of the throttle body will have no effect whatsoever unless the restriction is greater than the maximum cubic feet per minute requirements of the engine at any given moment in time. That means that high flow requirements would be affected first, once the restriction becomes relevant, but not until then.

Our stock air box does not permit air to flow through the MAF and the throttle body at the maximum usable rate for even the stock engine. That's why aftermarket intakes, either SRI or CAI have the potential, if designed properly, to produce good power increases.

only in lower rpm ranges comparo between the two intakes. the higher flow intake allows enough air to enter the throttle body at WOT in lower rpm which may (or may not) bog the motor enough to slow the throttle response compared to the stock intake which allows much less air flow that would accomodate lower rpm ranges better than the afermarket high flow intake. once you move past that point the high flow rocks the stock box by far.

the exaplme i can come up with quick is like a lawn tractor. if you open the carb up to much you will bog the motor out...unless your reving the motor to a high range of rpms. my logic could be incorrect but like i said....my thoughts into the situation.

i do agree with you as far as cold air vs. SRI. like i said before though if you can shield the SRI from the engine heat your air flow is closer and more direct to the inlet than an extra 4 feet of tubing.

i technically could run logs from sri vs cai and whether the stock air box would pull better in low rpms but im not gunna lie....im way to lazy to switch them all out and run data logs. its been sort of done from cai to sri. maybe a 2 hp difference from what i remember. i dont think anyone ran the test were talking about though. just hp differences. sorry.
 
This is the craziest crap i have heard in a long time. Now i cant tell you what you do or dont feel, but i can tell you your logic is absolutely retarded. This is a turbo car. The larger diameter tube with high flowing filter will feed the turbo faster, which reduces spool up time. The faster you get that air in the motor the better. The idea that too much air can slow this car down is insane. More air = more power ALWAYS. The invreased IATs seen from a SRI could cause it to slow you down, but it certainly isnt the increased airflow.
 
Not really talking logic or theory here, just observations guys.

I've been through, studied, and even experienced first hand the effects of having too large port size for a given combo ( cylinder head ) or too much cam or too much carburetor ( yes old school ) and I understand port velocity and throttle response vs top end power etc. Bigger isn't always better and size matters.

That said, this is my first power adder turbo car, first Mazda, and first car with such a sophisticated ECU. I'm just calling it like I felt it. Partial throttle with the stock airbox at lower RPM was more responsive than the CPE CAI. The car seemed to build torque sooner / easier at part throttle as in normal, non WOT type driving conditions.

Of course this was only after driving it for about 10 minutes after installation with a reset so who knows, maybe it would have changed a week later if I had waited.
 
This is the craziest crap i have heard in a long time. Now i cant tell you what you do or dont feel, but i can tell you your logic is absolutely retarded. This is a turbo car. The larger diameter tube with high flowing filter will feed the turbo faster, which reduces spool up time. The faster you get that air in the motor the better. The idea that too much air can slow this car down is insane. More air = more power ALWAYS. The invreased IATs seen from a SRI could cause it to slow you down, but it certainly isnt the increased airflow.

+1 With comment:

These are not NA engines and we are not concerned with changing intake manifold runner size or length or varying cylinder head port or chamber configuration here. We are not concerned with lift and duration changes on the cams, all of which can adversely affect low rpm drivability.

Bear in mind that in our turbo cars the initial column of intake air must pass through the MAF, then get routed through the compressor side of the turbo, compressed and heated up inthe process, then through the intercooler and cooled back down and then on to the intake manifold.

We're talking only about the volume of the initial column of air that is available to enter the very first stage of the pre-MAF intake side of the system. At any given rpm or throttle body position, the engine is only going to use as much of that column as it needs, up to the point where the column ceases to supply the oxygen demands of the engine. Period.

Even with the given example of a small NA lawnmower engine (I had a Tecumseh one cylinder engine carb apart this weekend. The float was stuck and I was installing a new needle and seat for the float valve) I cannot see how this suggested theory can possibly hold water. Whether I ran that little lawnmower engine during tuning with no air filter or with the filter attached (even a somewhat dirty one) there was no discernable difference in throttle response. There is a difference in power if the filter is restricting air flow.

Note that I am not changing the size of the carb's butterfly. I am not changing the diameter or length of the little "intake manifold" between that carb and the intake port on the cylinder head, I'm not altering spark or timing or valve lift or duration. No matter what I do short of reducing the air supply to the point that the engine ceases to run well at low rpm, there was no perceptible change in throttle response coming off of idle or at midrange rpm.

I think the posters are honestly but mistakenly placing way to much emphasis on subjective factors -- what they hear or what they "feel" by the seat of their pants, rather than objective measurements.

This is also why "butt dyno" reports are so notoriously unreliable. They tend to equate changes in sound with changes in power or report a placebo effect -- I bought it, I spent my money, so it must be producing more power than before. Usually a simple stop watch test before or after installing mods (way cheaper than dyno runs), or a relatively inexpensive accelerometer, can tell whether the butt dyno "feel" is valid.

There are ways to objectively test the theory, but It would be senseless to try. You would have to accurately repeat exact throttle body position at part throttle and measure part throttle acceleration at the same throttle body position with the stock air box and with the SRI or CAI and keep all other factors, especially intake charge temperature the same, and then simultaneously measure the time for the vehicle to change from one exact speed to another exact speed at those various part throttle settings. Not worth it.

Give me more available cold air and trust the MAF metering to decide how much of that will actually end up getting into the engine at various states of throttle position and engine load.
 
"There are ways to objectively test the theory, but It would be senseless to try. You would have to accurately repeat exact throttle body position at part throttle and measure part throttle acceleration at the same throttle body position with the stock air box and with the SRI or CAI and keep all other factors, especially intake charge temperature the same, and then simultaneously measure the time for the vehicle to change from one exact speed to another exact speed at those various part throttle settings. Not worth it."

Exactly what I was think would be the only way to prove what the butt dyno was telling me. And that by the way was all I was trying to convey. Butt dyno said it felt "X" but have no conclusive proof it really was any different than stock.
 
I think the posters are honestly but mistakenly placing way to much emphasis on subjective factors -- what they hear or what they "feel" by the seat of their pants, rather than objective measurements.

i agree totally. people have wierd perceptions on what a "new" part does from another part that was on, than whats really happening. using the turbo inlet as an example. no real gains....maybe a faster turbo spool but i heard on countless occasions it "feels" better. hardly credible or accurate. i just took what he said and tried to put it into a reason why.

and tru-boost...the theory wasnt more air less power....it was where the power was going. low or high rpms and whether it would do sort of what a carborated engine would do with more air flow chugging the motor at low rpms. trying to come up with reasons why his "butt dyno" would feel what he has been feeling. no conclusive evidence at all with the theory. hence why i posted i could def be wrong. know what im saying?
 

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