Swirl marks

[arunka007]

Paint issues like swirl marks and orange peel bother me too much. So I always got my previous car hand washed at a trusted place. The few instances I had to take it to an automated car wash, I chose the touch-less washes. With this regime, my 2008 Accord didn't have any swirls/scratches until it was totaled mid last year.

Enter the Soul Red 2016 CX-5.

I read here about soft Mazda paint and installed a clearbra soon after purchase. Because of the clearbra, I didnt want to take it to those high pressure touch-less car washes. So, I ended up taking the car to the hand-wash place once in 2-3 weeks for over 6 months now.

Few weeks back, I noticed some swirl marks on the hood. Started looking around closely and noticed it everywhere. They're not very bad, but they're there and I can't unsee it now. The car has never been machine-washed. My hand-wash guy does the two-bucket thing and is generally very careful about what they do.

What's the best way to fix these swirls and what can I do to prevent these from showing up again? Has this something to do with the Soul Red paint?

 

[MikeM.]

The Soul Red Paint, being dark, shows the swirl marks more than white. I never wash with a rotary motion because whatever minute scratches you do make are sure to be more visible. Scratches that are in-line only show up from the perfect angle. Rotary swirl marks, on the other hand, are visible regardless of light direction.

 

[Titanium_Falcon]

Paint issues like swirl marks and orange peel bother me too much. So I always got my previous car hand washed at a trusted place. The few instances I had to take it to an automated car wash, I chose the touch-less washes. With this regime, my 2008 Accord didn't have any swirls/scratches until it was totaled mid last year.

Enter the Soul Red 2016 CX-5.

I read here about soft Mazda paint and installed a clearbra soon after purchase. Because of the clearbra, I didnt want to take it to those high pressure touch-less car washes. So, I ended up taking the car to the hand-wash place once in 2-3 weeks for over 6 months now.

Few weeks back, I noticed some swirl marks on the hood. Started looking around closely and noticed it everywhere. They're not very bad, but they're there and I can't unsee it now. The car has never been machine-washed. My hand-wash guy does the two-bucket thing and is generally very careful about what they do.

What's the best way to fix these swirls and what can I do to prevent these from showing up again? Has this something to do with the Soul Red paint?

I previously owned two black cars(07 Wrx sti, 10 G37S sedan) before my Cx-5. I was very picky with who washed my car's i would only use a detailing place for my washes and would have them wax every few months. In terms of the swirls the detail shop were really good at avoiding it. I know they have a water filtration system which doesn't leave water spots, making it easier to dry.

For the those times i couldn't bring it to a pro wash i had to be comfortable washing at home.

I learned a bunch of methods over the years:
Rinsing high pressure water to get the dirt off
Use plently of soap more slippery the better the soap suds help lift the dirt away.
2 bucket method which you already know.
rinsing out the sponge after every panel
For drying I used the absorber worked very well one swipe and like 90% of the water was gone. A lot the swirls i believe are caused during the drying process.

For the swirls you already have I recommend a polish. I would get one every year or two and after every polis all of the swirls were gone.

 

[Unobtanium]

The Soul Red Paint, being dark, shows the swirl marks more than white. I never wash with a rotary motion because whatever minute scratches you do make are sure to be more visible. Scratches that are in-line only show up from the perfect angle. Rotary swirl marks, on the other hand, are visible regardless of light direction.

Exactly. Grit-guards and straight-line technique are where it's at.

I still remember my 2012 370Z. Body shop did a lot of work on it one time, and it came out BEAUTIFULLY! except the rear valence wasn't lined up perfectly, so I took it back, and they fixed it. They also washed the car. They swirled the s*** out of the new paint. It was terrible. Looked like they washed it with a Brillo pad taped to a ryobi.

 

[Ride92]

Well since no one has to answer your question very thoroughly about how to remove the swirls I will. Like the one guy said, polish! Polishing the car with an abrasive polish will remove those swirl marks. There are hundreds of products out there that can get the job done and countless brands of polishes as well. The rule of thumb is to always start with the least abrasive polish and see if it gets the job done. If it doesn't move up to the next level of polish. Some products I have had good luck with are the meguiars product lines. Specifically the M205 and M105 combo and the Ultimate polish and compound. The M205 and the Ultimate polish are very similar products, both are true polishes with very light cutting action to remove swirls. The M105 is a bit of an older formula that dusts a bit more when being worked but works slightly better IMHO then the Ultimate polish. The nice thing with the Ultimate polish is that it is very easy to work with and cleans up really well and it's available at most auto stores and some walmarts. If a polish doesn't work to remove the swirls to your level of satisfaction then step up to a compound like the M105 or the Ultimate polish. Use a dual action polisher, commonly just called a DA with the appropriate foam pads and backing plate. I prefer 5" backing plates and 5.5" pads from lake country or buff and shine myself. Again start with a pad with very little cut and move up until it starts to get the job done. Polish with light cut or polishing pad - polish with medium cut pad - compound with medium cut pad - compound with heavy cut pad. If your new to the whole DA thing you could check out meguairs microfiber system. It's microfiber pads and polishes/compounds specifically designed to use with those pads. D301 and D302 are the product numbers for the microfiber polishes. I'm not a meguairs rep or anything I just like their products and have used quite a few of them.

As far as preventing future swirls there are a few things you can do. First off, what is the wash medium you are using and type of shampoo? A generic sponge isn't the answer. Look into getting a high quality wool mitt or microfiber wash mitt. Those Chenelle microfiber mits work pretty good two. Make sure you are using a quality Shampoo with lots of suds and lubricity. DuraGloss 901 and Meguairs Gold Class are my favorites. Second make sure you are washing from the top down doing one panel at a time and rinsing between panels using the two bucket method with grit guards in the bottoms of the buckets. And use back and forth strokes, not circles for reasons listed above.

After you've removed the swirls you can look into some paint coatings that can help prevent scratches in the Future. They are expensive but bond to the paint and last up to 3+ years in some instances. Pinnacale Black Label Diamond Paint coating V2, Optimum Gloss Coat and Cquartz UK edition all receive rave reviews on the detailing forums. All of these coatings are semi permanent and need a perfectly clean car to adhere to. You'll have to polish the swirl marks out and then wipe the car with a IPA solution to remove any oils left on the paint.

If you have a good detailer that you trust they should know of these or others that they recommend. The ones I listed are the ones available to the public. There are other ones that are even more expensive but can last up to 10 years but you need to be a pro, or at least have business registered with the companies in order to purchase them. Optimum Pro is one such example.

Other then that a good quality paint sealant followed by a durable wax several times a year should help to some degree.

 

[mriber]

Ride92 mentioned some of the coatings, but I would also like to mention the Gtechnic. They've launched their Crystal Serum Light, which claims to be the most durable of the public available. They call it a Prosumer product as it needs to be polished away if hardened.

I'm looking into getting it for my car together with the ExoV2 nano treatment - should make car was much easier. http://gtechniq.com/products/auto/protect/exterior/paint/crystal-serum-light


(Not affiliated in any way with gtechnic)

 

[Ride92]

Ride92 mentioned some of the coatings, but I would also like to mention the Gtechnic. They've launched their Crystal Serum Light, which claims to be the most durable of the public available. They call it a Prosumer product as it needs to be polished away if hardened.

I'm looking into getting it for my car together with the ExoV2 nano treatment - should make car was much easier. http://gtechniq.com/products/auto/protect/exterior/paint/crystal-serum-light


(Not affiliated in any way with gtechnic)

I was un aware that Gtechnic released a consumer version of their crystal coating. I might look into that one a bit more. The Pro version of the coating gets thumbs up from what I've read. I would just need to find a good detailer to do it for me.

 

[mriber]

On the videos it seems so easy to apply - but not sure if it could actually be done by a first timer?

 

[arunka007]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Much appreciated.

I have more questions now (naughty)

1. Will the polish damage the paint in anyway, beyond repair? or is it relatively simple and straightforward?
2. The polish will only fix the swirls, but won't prevent the new ones right?
3. Should I do the polish first and then prevent further swirls by applying gtechnic or will applying gtechnic directly (without polish) take care of existing swirls as well?
4. What is the longevity of something like gtechnic? It is really pricey stuff and it better last couple of years or so.

 

[Ride92]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Much appreciated.

I have more questions now (naughty)

1. Will the polish damage the paint in anyway, beyond repair? or is it relatively simple and straightforward?
2. The polish will only fix the swirls, but won't prevent the new ones right?
3. Should I do the polish first and then prevent further swirls by applying gtechnic or will applying gtechnic directly (without polish) take care of existing swirls as well?
4. What is the longevity of something like gtechnic? It is really pricey stuff and it better last couple of years or so.

1) No the polish itself will not damage the paint at all. You are actually not polishing the paint but rather the clear coat that is on top of the paint. In essence the polish is removing a very small amount of clear coat (down to the bottom of the swirls) and leveling the clear to a degree as well. The only way you end up damaging the paint or clear coat is if you are too aggressive with your polisher and "burn" the paint. This is most likely to happen at corners and sharp creases. The heat from the polisher will build up on the pad and surface you are working causing the paint to soften and you can actually burn right thru the paint. the good thing is, if you are using a DA polisher instead of a rotary polisher it's almost impossible to burn thru the paint. If there is too much pressure on the DA the pad will stop spinning, it will only be vibrating. The Spinning action is what "polishes" the surface. That's why DA's are so popular, they are very easy to use and almost impossible to damage the paint with them.

2) you are correct, the polish or compound is only to remove defects from the paint. It will not provide any protection for the surface what so ever. After polishing the car you need to wipe down with an Isopropyl Alcohol solution (IPA) before doing any sort of coating. This IPA wipe down is to remove any remaining oils left from the polish to ensure a perfectly clean surface for the coating to bond too. If you are just planning on waxing the car the IPA wipe down isn't as critical. After polishing your car surface will have zero protection on it. You will need to follow up with something to offer protection to the paint and clear coat. Coating, sealant, wax are your options. They all have there ups and down and I don't have enough time to explain them all.

4) If you plan on doing a coating like the Gtechiq crystal serum light, Optimum gloss coat, CarPro Cquartz, or Pinnacle Black label paint coating V2 you will need to have a perfectly clean and defect free surface for the coating to bond properly. The coatings will not hide any of the swirls or scratches, they will just lock them in under the coating. The only way to get them out afterwards is to polish the coating away and continue to polish until the swirls are gone, then re-apply the coating. So you need to polish to remove swirls before coating. A lot of waxes will have a hiding ability to them where they reduce the appearance of swirls and scratches by filling them in to some degree. These don't last nearly as long as a coating.

5) there are two different categories of coatings, Pro and consumer. The Pro coatings like Opti-Pro, Ceramic Pro 9H, Gtechinq Crystal Serum (not the light) will usually have a 7-10 year lifespan. Many of the pro coating warranties state that some sort of "maintenance" is needed to obtain the full life span. This usually involves other products to be applied yearly or bi-yearly to help protect the original coating. The pro coatings are expensive. Were talking $300-$900 just for the product and since they need to be applied by trained detailers you also have to pay for them to do the correction work on the paint as well, the polishing. All told most of the Pro coating will run you $1000+. The Consumer line of coatings range from $60-$200ish for most of the products and often times you can get a few applications out of one bottle. The Pinnacle Black Label states up to five coatings out of there bottle so cost per coat is as high and better value. The Consumer coatings will typically last 2-3 years. The Gtechnic crystal serum light is claiming 5 year life span but also looks to be the most difficult to apply and the Gtechniq website says not for the "new to detailing" customer.

As much as I would love to have my car receive a Pro coating of some sort I just can't justify the $1000-$1200 cost that goes with it. It's a Mazda after all, not a Maserati. I say, save yourself the money and get a consumer level coating, 3 years of protection is still very good and you can always reapply when needed.

Here is what I plan on doing come spring to My 2016 CX-5 in order to prep for a coating. I'm still undecided on which coating I'm going to go with.

1)wash the car with two bucket method and dry with leaf blower
2)Clay bar the car
3) Polish any swirls or scratches, this may require compounding. If I need to compound I will follow up with a polish using my Harbor Freight DA
4) IPA wipe down and use leaf blower or air gun to make sure no water is left on the car under trim or anything that may drip onto coating.
5) Coat with Coating of my choice, wait the recommended amount of time and add a second layer of coating after first coating has cured.
6) After coating has fully cured, 24 hours usually, apply two coats of Collonite 845 wax.

Here's a good site with lots of the coatings I talked about and good info on each of them:

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/car-paint-coatings.html

 

[MikeM.]

As much as I would love to have my car receive a Pro coating of some sort I just can't justify the $1000-$1200 cost that goes with it. It's a Mazda after all, not a Maserati. I say, save yourself the money and get a consumer level coating, 3 years of protection is still very good and you can always reapply when needed.

Of course there's a lot to be said for the old school method of buffing some wax on and not worrying about it. The clearcoat is pretty tough as I found out when I decided to use a power polisher and polishing compound to buff out some fine scratches caused by driving a filthy car through alder saplings. Modern polyurethane paint is very thin but very tough so it's difficult to damage in the first place (compared to the thick but soft crap they sprayed on in the '70's).

Even a professionally applied coating can be damaged by rock chips so nothing is going to keep the car pristine forever. Increasing your following distance on the highway and not letting bozos wash your car will go a long ways toward keeping it looking nice.

 

[arunka007]

Awesome. Thanks for taking the time to explain it all in detail. I will take it to a detailer for polish and the consumer grade coating.

 

[Ride92]

Of course there's a lot to be said for the old school method of buffing some wax on and not worrying about it. The clearcoat is pretty tough as I found out when I decided to use a power polisher and polishing compound to buff out some fine scratches caused by driving a filthy car through alder saplings. Modern polyurethane paint is very thin but very tough so it's difficult to damage in the first place (compared to the thick but soft crap they sprayed on in the '70's).

Even a professionally applied coating can be damaged by rock chips so nothing is going to keep the car pristine forever. Increasing your following distance on the highway and not letting bozos wash your car will go a long ways toward keeping it looking nice.

All true. The only way to keep your car pristine is to park it in an environmentally controlled garage and never drive it, anywhere, ever. In fact a "clean room" like the ones to make computer chips would be best since no dust would fall on the car. But seriously, if you do that, then why buy a car? All kidding aside, paint protection is a funny thing. It's sort of like your teeth. Teeth need to be drilled with diamond bit, the hardest material on earth, yet get destroyed by chocolate! Same with a car, it always seems removing swirls and scratches is far more difficult then inducing them. Why is it that a soft sponge can scratch a clear coat but a polish and da buffer can have hard time removing it? Yes the clear coats today are pretty tough and much better then they were in the 70's no doubt. I still really like using waxes. In fact my go to has been Meg's ultimate liquid wax which is a newer synthetic wax (sealant technically) and collonite 845 which has been unchanged in 30 some years of existence. But a wax can not provide the lasting protection of a ceramic coating. I guess to each there own.

 

[bmninada]

I have Soul Red - and recently discovered swirl marks, etc. introduced post recent wash. Surprisingly, dealership had done a good job. Anyways, I have NEVER, EVER done ANY polishing, compounding, waxing. My cleaning of car usually involved dumping the car with a garden hose and then using some old towels.
So - the bottom-line I have zero experience. But in this case, I followed advise (from here).
First: Used 2 bucket approach, generic Walmart automobile liquid soap. Then I dried using fresh towels top to bottom movements only and per panel - 1 clean towel. Time: 15 min.
Second: Used a clay bar and thoroughly cleaned the car with lots of water. Again, fresh towels, 1 per panel - dried it. Time: 20 min
Third: I created a spray bottle with 50-50 mix of water/IPA, sprayed and cleaned with a wool mitt bought from polish section - Home Depot. Time: 10 min.
So - at this point my car's crystal clean. I started going over the car now and hardly saw any more swirl marks. I realized clay bar also takes care of many of these swirl marks? Dunno. Bottom-line: polishing takes time, effort and $$ (DA polisher, etc., etc.)
Beer break: 10 min.
Total time: About an hr.
FORTH and FINAL: I applied a coating which I have personally seen in 3 cars and after talking to them and others all swear by it. All I was looking for: EASE of application. As I said - I know NOTHING about detailing/polishing. So - I really needed something even I cant go wrong with but still gives amazing results.

This is the coating I used: Migliore Strata Coating: High Gloss Ceramic Vehicle Coating (see in Amazon). It's simply MIND-BLOWING simple and RESULTS blew me away. With 1 bottle lasting 2 times and they are saying its at least 1 year, I got my value here. It's simplicity amazed me along with the results.

 

[brillo54]

Ok, just for clarity, IPA is isopropyl alcohol, correct? In my house, IPA means India Pale Ale, one of my favorite styles of beer and for internal use only. (thinkbeer

 

[Unobtanium]

Ok, just for clarity, IPA is isopropyl alcohol, correct? In my house, IPA means India Pale Ale, one of my favorite styles of beer and for internal use only. (thinkbeer

Yes, and stay the hell away from IPA, or any alcohol, near your vehicle. It absolutely SLAUGHTERS polycarbonate. You know, the stuff your $1500ish headlight lenses are made from...

What do I mean slaughters? I literally mean, if you wipe it down with it, it's toasted. Not today or tomorrow maybe, but it will cause a TON of stress fractures, and the next thump that housing gets, you're going to have a crazed mess.

GM played that game with C6 Corvette owners. Began refusing the warranty cars with wraps over the headlights. Blamed heat. Real culprit was uneducated wrappers using IPA based solutions to clean the lenses and apply the wrap. Destroyed.

Here is what happens: http://s342.photobucket.com/user/rlsebring/media/crazedheadlight.jpg.html


So fast-forward a little bit...I am building a WML (weapon light) for my M4. Why? Because THAT is my hobby. I end up sourcing all the parts, and the lens involved is an AR coated polycarbonate lens. IPA is an acceptable cleaning solution for optics in some cases, so...it is very conceivable that it may be used on a WML at some point. I remembered this whole C6 headlight debacle, and decided to test it. I took the polycarbonate lens, inspected it, it was flawless. I then placed a 70% IPA wipe along the edges of the lens, made a few laps around it, and low and behold, spider-webs shot through the thing to a depth of about 1/4 its diameter within seconds. Applying a little pressure to the lens, I was able to further craze it much worse. It was text-book and pretty darn impressive! Organic solvents and polycarbonate DO NOT MIX!

So what did I do? I went with sapphire for the lens. Yes, it cost me $22/lens, but it is stoopid resistant to anything but impact, and very good with that, so it worked great. No, you can't buy sapphire lenses for your car. However, one thing that the industry has moved to is CoC polymer. As far as I know, Surefire is the only company using it due to the expense and R&D behind it. However, it is better in every way than polycarbonate, and I think that it would make a helluva windscreen maybe. have not studied it for that purpose, but it is environmentally very stable, and tough as hell.

Anyway, sorry for hte nerd rage...point being...keep IPA off your damn car except for the glass!

PS. Actually polishing a car takes all day unless you do it for a living, IMO. Want a legit tutorial? here:

 

[Dave West]

Check out http://www.ammonyc.com/. There are tons of videos. I thought Ride92 was Larry Kosilla for a minute. Anyway Larry is certainly selling his products but he shares techniques that apply to any product.

 

[Unobtanium]

Of course there's a lot to be said for the old school method of buffing some wax on and not worrying about it. The clearcoat is pretty tough as I found out when I decided to use a power polisher and polishing compound to buff out some fine scratches caused by driving a filthy car through alder saplings. Modern polyurethane paint is very thin but very tough so it's difficult to damage in the first place (compared to the thick but soft crap they sprayed on in the '70's).

Even a professionally applied coating can be damaged by rock chips so nothing is going to keep the car pristine forever. Increasing your following distance on the highway and not letting bozos wash your car will go a long ways toward keeping it looking nice.

Clear bra is where it's at if you care. Mine actually survived being run into by an SUV. No, the fender and rims and bumper of my 370Z did not...but the paint under that wrap was pristine. Crazy! It runs me about $2k/vehicle to do a full wrap, but ever since my corvette, when I buy a car that I want to keep looking sexy...it gets a wrap. Period. Nothing can compare to it. I'm going to begin having my windshields wrapped after this CX-5 debacle. MAYBE I can keep one in-tact...

 

[bmninada]

Clear bra is where it's at if you care. Mine actually survived being run into by an SUV. No, the fender and rims and bumper of my 370Z did not...but the paint under that wrap was pristine. Crazy! It runs me about $2k/vehicle to do a full wrap, but ever since my corvette, when I buy a car that I want to keep looking sexy...it gets a wrap. Period. Nothing can compare to it. I'm going to begin having my windshields wrapped after this CX-5 debacle. MAYBE I can keep one in-tact...

Depends. I have seen clear bra, after 5 years of use. And it no more clear, its yellow!

 

[MikeM.]

Clear bra is where it's at if you care. Mine actually survived being run into by an SUV. No, the fender and rims and bumper of my 370Z did not...but the paint under that wrap was pristine. Crazy! It runs me about $2k/vehicle to do a full wrap, but ever since my corvette, when I buy a car that I want to keep looking sexy...it gets a wrap. Period. Nothing can compare to it. I'm going to begin having my windshields wrapped after this CX-5 debacle. MAYBE I can keep one in-tact...

$2000 to plastic wrap a car? Stoopid waste of perfectly eligible cash.

I don't even like clear bras, sheer bras are where it's at (and a Google search will confirm)! A decent one is only $75 or so.