So Boosting Our MSP's is not good..??

[N1XRR]

There is one thing that everyone here has overlooked on these cars: the turbo's lifespan. This is with all turbo cars actually. The more PSI your producing the faster the turbo has to spin and the shorter the life of the turbocharger. I've been doing some ready, and talking to a few people, and it seems that ball bearing turbo's have a tendency to wear out quicker than a journal bearing turbo at higher speeds. 6-7 psi? The turbo should last the life of the car. 8-10psi? I don't know, you may cut 30000-40000 miles out of the life of the turbo. The thing is, nobody knows right now because nobody has one of these cars with 100,000+ miles on it.

Incase anybody wants to know: My car is stock. I have not even once let my car shut off hot(always cooled for at least 30 seconds). I always heat the car up to full temp before boosting the car at all(withen reason. 1-2psi is unavoidable on this car). I plan to install a turbo timer in the near future. *I DO NOT EXPECT THIS TURBO TO LAST MORE THAN 100,000 MILES*

This is just my experience with turbo cars. (Out of my experience with the Clemson Sports Car Club and my own experience). I have seen/used/worked on 20+ turbo cars. 2 of my own(2nd gen RX7, MSP), a 280Z swapped with a 280ZX Turbo motor(oil cooled), a 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, VW 1.8T's, Toyota Supra turbo(MKIII and MKIV), etc etc etc. The list goes on. They ALL have had some sort of turbo problem(except the MSP, new car).

Here's the short answer: If you mod your car for the turbo to be able to spin faster, the turbo will die quicker.

 

[ThrillRide]

I have offered the proverbial Oak Leaf I will stop flaming people on the threads. It would help the board if we all tried this. It's not productive.

good enough for me

 

[Dr.Sound]

dude, Brian, why the hell are u so negative all the time?
jessus, every thread u enter u start flaming or saying people are wrong.....

seriously dude, u come off like a dick.

yashooa is a long-time member who is respected arround here.
he also has a very good sence of humor (of which this site lacks.......mainly cause of people like u).

lighten up.

 

[yashooa]

yahoo,
thats fine but you stated it over and over and over again we understand what your point of view and it was taken into consideration

If you hate boost so much just take it out go N/A the way power was orignally made.

???? I luvs da boost she's ma favo-rite ho
I'm into the 12lbers myself.
Perhaps you cant read my sig.
(crazy) (poke) (crazy)

 

[yashooa]

I have offered the proverbial Oak Leaf

I will stop flaming people on the threads. It would help the board if we all tried this. It's not productive.


(p5white)

No sweat man I love the MSP and basically all 3rd Gen Pros.
My Wife has a P5 and I would have bought one for My daughter new for less than 12 grand had I not missed out on Christmas Eve. I know you are knowledgeable and mean well. I try to put smileys all over th place to let people know I am joking heck, I don't see how people can take most of what I say seriously.
Come on. Once I said, Santa Claus was gonna drive the Easter Bunny home...Good G*D MAN! That s*** aint real
I really do wish we had a new PCM/ECU to play with so we could make more power simply through better tuning. I am fairly confident that our cars have lots of potential in them even in mostly stock form. Joe seemed to be the most ardent supporter of this low cost high fun approach. I really wish he wasn't so in love with his "Stang"
Your a cool guy and I don't even consider what you said as a flame and as a gesture of peace I will say you have graduated from a specimen of the Homo Arts to a specimen of the Bi-Sexual Arts (k) (pukey) (laugh) (laugh) (laugh)
Someday you may even make all the way to Hetroville.

l8ter...

 

[Brian MP5T]

No sweat man I love the MSP and basically all 3rd Gen Pros...

...I really do wish we had a new PCM/ECU to play with so we could make more power simply through better tuning. I am fairly confident that our cars have lots of potential in them even in mostly stock form. Joe seemed to be the most ardent supporter of this low cost high fun approach. I really wish he wasn't so in love with his "Stang"

l8ter...

Ok, It's difficult sometimes. Being opinionated is something everyone has to deal with and sometimes it's hard to bite your lip and just be silent.

SDS-EIC-2.

I have been pushing this as an alternative to Injectors and ECU.

Simple Digital Solutions makes an Extra Injector Controller.

It adds fuel before your throttle body. It is completely user programmable and fits really well in front of the shifter in the recess under the heater controls. I have one and have been using it for this entire past summer. It is even the Maximum Boost if you want some more info on it. Maybe an alternative for you as well.

 

[kwiktsi]

Ok, It's difficult sometimes. Being opinionated is something everyone has to deal with and sometimes it's hard to bite your lip and just be silent.

SDS-EIC-2.

I have been pushing this as an alternative to Injectors and ECU.

Simple Digital Solutions makes an Extra Injector Controller.

It adds fuel before your throttle body. It is completely user programmable and fits really well in front of the shifter in the recess under the heater controls. I have one and have been using it for this entire past summer. It is even the Maximum Boost if you want some more info on it. Maybe an alternative for you as well.

Fuel isn't the problem- timing is.. If you are comparing it to the P5 ECU- don't . They run completely different under boost. I know a few guys with turboed P5's running a 5th injector. the MSP does NOT have the same fuel issues when under boost- the MSP ECU is (somewhat) tuned for it- the P5 isn't- therefore, you need some type of additional injector or fuel control for the P5 (and MP3 cars). I do agree that an AIC is convenient to make up for fuel problems, but not of use to most MSP guys. I was running mid/high 11:1 AFR's at 18-20 psi on a stock fuel system WITH my FPR kit to LEAN it out installed- like I said- fuel is not an issue .
Joe
PS- If you have been into turbos for a while- you will remember the GN guys were using 7th injectors before the throttle bodies as a way to add more fuel. It works, but it is a crude setup and was only used by the "slower" (mod for mod) guys.

 

[Brian MP5T]

Fuel isn't the problem- timing is.. If you are comparing it to the P5 ECU- don't . They run completely different under boost. I know a few guys with turboed P5's running a 5th injector. the MSP does NOT have the same fuel issues when under boost- the MSP ECU is (somewhat) tuned for it- the P5 isn't- therefore, you need some type of additional injector or fuel control for the P5 (and MP3 cars). I do agree that an AIC is convenient to make up for fuel problems, but not of use to most MSP guys. I was running mid/high 11:1 AFR's at 18-20 psi on a stock fuel system WITH my FPR kit to LEAN it out installed- like I said- fuel is not an issue .
Joe
PS- If you have been into turbos for a while- you will remember the GN guys were using 7th injectors before the throttle bodies as a way to add more fuel. It works, but it is a crude setup and was only used by the "slower" (mod for mod) guys.

I agree, Corkey Bell even called it a simple reliable way to fix a problem in a sloppy way. It seems to be working very well for me. I'm waiting on a EGT this summer. It will be a much better indication if I am running lean or not. Autometer A/F seems to be a pretty light rather than an instrument to tune a car with. Perhaps a good ball park but not as scalpel.

 

[kwiktsi]

I agree, Corkey Bell even called it a simple reliable way to fix a problem in a sloppy way. It seems to be working very well for me. I'm waiting on a EGT this summer. It will be a much better indication if I am running lean or not. Autometer A/F seems to be a pretty light rather than an instrument to tune a car with. Perhaps a good ball park but not as scalpel.

That's a good way to put it . Maybe I should have read the book ..

Anyway- a wide band is better at measuring lean/rich conditions. Timing will affect EGT readings.
Joe

 

[Brian MP5T]

That's a good way to put it . Maybe I should have read the book ..

Anyway- a wide band is better at measuring lean/rich conditions. Timing will affect EGT readings.
Joe

After the amount of time that this GD car has been in a shop getting built, the last thing I want to do now is redesign the system. I understand that the suggestion of the wideband was a general FYI thing, but right now, I miss my car and want to drive the piss out of it. I'm only setting my sights on easy mods. It's finished, is what I told myself last summer, and here I am finishing it some more. ****!

 

[kwiktsi]

After the amount of time that this GD car has been in a shop getting built, the last thing I want to do now is redesign the system. I understand that the suggestion of the wideband was a general FYI thing, but right now, I miss my car and want to drive the piss out of it. I'm only setting my sights on easy mods. It's finished, is what I told myself last summer, and here I am finishing it some more. ****!

Lol- and if you're anything like every other car guy out there- you will say "that's it- IT'S FINALLY DONE" about 5 more times before you finally just give in and say "**** it, I'll take it as it comes" ..
Joe

 

[yashooa]

Oh HELL YES! Now Joe and this dude going back and forth with all that knowledge is why I love to come here! Well that and to call people funny names
Joe you is "DA MASTA" Bryan you're ok to and that bit of input back and forth was a damn good read.
Thanks Fellas...(2thumbs) (rockon) (2thumbs)

 

[Brian MP5T]

Lol- and if you're anything like every other car guy out there- you will say "that's it- IT'S FINALLY DONE" about 5 more times before you finally just give in and say "**** it, I'll take it as it comes" ..
Joe

Yeah, the only thing that I really want to avoid is any kind of major mechanical failure. I designed and built this thing. I am the only one that really knows how it all goes together and works by trial and error.

See ya...

 

[Brian MP5T]

Oh HELL YES! Now Joe and this dude going back and forth with all that knowledge is why I love to come here! Well that and to call people funny names
Joe you is "DA MASTA" Bryan you're ok to and that bit of input back and forth was a damn good read.
Thanks Fellas...(2thumbs) (rockon) (2thumbs)

Kewl

 

[dj JINX]

threadjack: Joe PLEASE pm me about my parts that where ordered on Dec 4th!!!! With no tracking number We (you) dont know where my parts are!! Not good.
threadjack complete !!!! resume tuning

 

[Brian MP5T]

"WTF is a BLING? And why would I want two of them?"

It's from the TV. commercials... Like toothpaste commercials, when buddy opens his mouth and a bunch of stars go " Bling, Bling"

 

[Zray]

Question: isn't it possible that the 2 or whatever MSP's that blew their engines with a boost controller just suffered a boost spike, which I've heard could happen with the cheaper mbc's? Spiking is the only thing that worries me about boosting. Regardless, I'm probably just going to keep my MSP stock until I can afford something in the next price range, perhaps a Mazda 6. If I were going to boost at all, I'd go with a dual-stage ebc with spike protection, and only after a few support mods, fuel controller + colder plugs etc.

 

[Brian MP5T]

Question: isn't it possible that the 2 or whatever MSP's that blew their engines with a boost controller just suffered a boost spike, which I've heard could happen with the cheaper mbc's? Spiking is the only thing that worries me about boosting. Regardless, I'm probably just going to keep my MSP stock until I can afford something in the next price range, perhaps a Mazda 6. If I were going to boost at all, I'd go with a dual-stage ebc with spike protection, and only after a few support mods, fuel controller + colder plugs etc.

Good call. Dont be cheap with Boost. You have a $2500.00 engine and a $100.00 boost controller. Spending a couple extra dollars on a nice piece could be the difference between blowing and not blowing your $2500.00 fancy block of iron and aluminium.

 

[kwiktsi]

threadjack: Joe PLEASE pm me about my parts that where ordered on Dec 4th!!!! With no tracking number We (you) dont know where my parts are!! Not good.
threadjack complete !!!! resume tuning

As I tell everyone- PLEASE email me directly, I don't always check the boards. If you have- let me know who you are (your screen name here too)- when I get a PM or something with your screen name, then an email from a different name- I have no clue what is going on .. I am not a mind reader, so I don't know who is who . Even if we have been through it once already- I get over 150 emails a day and don't remember everything .

My email address is kwiktsi@nycap.rr.com ...
Joe

 

[kwiktsi]

Question: isn't it possible that the 2 or whatever MSP's that blew their engines with a boost controller just suffered a boost spike, which I've heard could happen with the cheaper mbc's? Spiking is the only thing that worries me about boosting. Regardless, I'm probably just going to keep my MSP stock until I can afford something in the next price range, perhaps a Mazda 6. If I were going to boost at all, I'd go with a dual-stage ebc with spike protection, and only after a few support mods, fuel controller + colder plugs etc.

Spike even happened with my $500 Blitz DSBC- it is not just a problem with MBC's. The tiny turbo coupled with the fact that it is a BB turbo and a high compression motor spools faster than most controller can react. I had to turn the spool all the way down on my blitz to try to preven massive spike and it would still spike a PSI or two and vary from gear to gear. Before pointing fingers at the type of controllers a lot of people overlook the vehicles ineffeciencies also. With a properly setup car, you will have 0 spike, creep, etc. no matter what you use for control (except bleeder or "aquarium valve" type controllers).
Joe