2013~2016 Should I change transmission fluid in Skyactiv cars?

[JOE MAMA]

There are proper ways for dealerships to do a full fluid exchange on the skyactiv transmissions. I find it amusing to hear people suggest otherwise. It’s been done and there is no voodoo magic involved.

There is also no such thing as a lifetime fluid. In my view, drain and fills are a waste of time and energy when a full fluid exchange is an option. It’s cheap insurance on an otherwise fairly expensive vehicle.

I would only ever allow a reputable dealer to complete the transmission service provided they have the right equipment.

 

[ruthrj]

“It’s been done and there is no voodoo magic involved.”

“In my view, drain and fills are a waste of time and energy when a full fluid exchange is an option.”

“provided they have the right equipment”

I have not seen a single case here where a dealership was equipped with the proper adapter that swaps with the coolant exchanger. I have seen dealerships here offer a “suction” device that will “swap all of the fluid”. lo And behold a picture of the machine is shared. It was a wand stuck through the dipstick hole to suck out the fluid and replace it. Customer billed for only 4 quarts of fluid. No full exchange like promised.

no magic or voodoo, just false claims by servicers to be wary of. The official means to replace transmission fluid is a 3x drain and fill for both Honda and Toyota vehicles as evidenced by the shop manual for my old Odyssey and my current RAV4. There is no Mazda service instructions I’m aware of to replace transmission fluid, only that it’s “lifetime” and how to adjust the level, therefore no means for a service center to perform a standardized operation. Buyer beware.

 

[yrwei52]

There are proper ways for dealerships to do a full fluid exchange on the skyactiv transmissions. I find it amusing to hear people suggest otherwise. It’s been done and there is no voodoo magic involved.

Without any external ATF lines to intercept old ATF and feed fresh ATF in-line, it would be really a magic to me to perform an entire ATF exchange on SkyActiv-Drive transmission, unless the Mazda dealer somehow has a special SkyActiv-Drive ATF cooler adapter, which is not approved by Mazda by the way, to hook up their ATF exchanger.

The Master Mechanic of my Mazda dealer certainly agreed with me on this, and his service department is only approved to do ATF drain-and-fill on SkyActiv-Drive transmission, not the flush.

 

[bulwnkl]

For me, the cost of a ‘full fluid exchange’ from a shop is much higher than my cost for ~15 qts of FZ ATF. So, I perform 4 drain-and-fill cycles and have 85 - 90% new fluid. That’s also what Honda recommends for my pickup (4 d-n-f), coincidently.

 

[JOE MAMA]

Without any external ATF lines to intercept old ATF and feed fresh ATF in-line, it would be really a magic to me to perform an entire ATF exchange on SkyActiv-Drive transmission, unless the Mazda dealer somehow has a special SkyActiv-Drive ATF cooler adapter, which is not approved by Mazda by the way, to hook up their ATF exchanger.

The Master Mechanic of my Mazda dealer certainly agreed with me on this, and his service department is only approved to do ATF drain-and-fill on SkyActiv-Drive transmission, not the flush.

Once of my closest friends is a master tech at a Mazda dealership. The adapter is specifically designed to be used on the pressure port of the Skyactiv transmissions. According to my buddy it’s Mazda approved and is absolutely safe. It’s actually not a flush in the traditional sense, but rather a full fluid exchange. According to him, it’s a state of the art machine and not one all dealers have. I have 320,000km on my car with 3 full fluid changes. Zero issues. This is the 4th Skyactiv Mazda I’ve owned and they’ve all been serviced this way.

 

[yrwei52]

Once of my closest friends is a master tech at a Mazda dealership. The adapter is specifically designed to be used on the pressure port of the Skyactiv transmissions.

Not sure what is the pressure port you’re referring to, but the special adapter with added ATF input and output ports should be installed replacing the piggybacked ATF cooler on SkyActiv-Drive transmission. The ATF exchanger then can hook up these 2 ATF ports in-line and exchanging the circulating ATF with transmission running. Since more than half of the ATF is staying inside of torque converter and valve body, those won’t be totally replaced cleanly even with a commercial ATF exchanger in a short period of time with specified full ATF capacity of 8.2 / 8.5 quarts. That’s why doing multiple drain-and-fill’s may even be more effective as the fresher ATF would have more time to mix with old ATF in these 2 areas. And that’s why the factory shop manual from Honda and Toyota specified this multiple drain-and-fill method to replace the ATF based on above posts.

According to my buddy it’s Mazda approved and is absolutely safe. It’s actually not a flush in the traditional sense, but rather a full fluid exchange. According to him, it’s a state of the art machine and not one all dealers have. I have 320,000km on my car with 3 full fluid changes. Zero issues. This is the 4th Skyactiv Mazda I’ve owned and they’ve all been serviced this way.

Using a special adapter to hook up an ATF exchanger for entire ATF replacement definitely is not approved by Mazda. Or we’ll see the official procedure outlined in Mazda’s Factory Workshop Manual, with a special adapter tool part number listed.

ruthrj said the best, if you don’t see more than 9 quarts of Mazda ATF FZ listed on your Mazda dealer’s invoice (and I might add a new ATF cooler gasket should be on the invoice too to prevent possible ATF leak), you didn’t get full ATF replacement.

 

[JOE MAMA]

I’ve posted in this thread, though much earlier on. I believe my invoice said 12 quarts.

I have no reason to believe a good friend would mislead me, certainly not over a couple hundred dollars. Drain and fills aren’t much cheaper.

Just because something isn’t included in the workshop manual doesn’t mean it’s not warranty approved.

The flushes/full fluid exchanges work for me. Been doing them since I bought my first SkyActiv vehicle in 2012. I drive almost 60,000km/year which translates into a transmission fluid change every 18 months or so. No issues.

 

[yrwei52]

I’ve posted in this thread, though much earlier on. I believe my invoice said 12 quarts.

I have no reason to believe a good friend would mislead me, certainly not over a couple hundred dollars. Drain and wills aren’t much cheaper.

Just because something isn’t included in the workshop manual doesn’t mean it’s not warranty approved.

The flushes/full fluid exchanges work for me. Been doing them since I bought my first SkyActiv vehicle in 2012. I drive almost 60,000km/year which translates into a transmission fluid change every 18 months or so. No issues.

With 12 quarts used, you should get a good 90%+ old ATF replaced with proper method. But if the method is to use “adapters“ to complete the flushes through the dipstick and a pressure port, I do have some doubt how effective the ATF exchange truly is. Firstly, I don’t really know there’s a “pressure port” available on SkyActiv-Drive transmission the ATF exchanger can hook up; secondly, any ATF exchange machine when using the dipstick hole would be less effective as the fresh fluid would mix with old fluid once you feed the fresh ATF into the dipstick hole. I’d use 12 quarts of ATF and do drain-and-fill 4 times which should be similar to 92% replacement ratio, and have more chance to get rid of old fluid staying inside of torque converter and valve body.

BTW, $259.99 CAD / $196.86 USD for 12 quarts of Mazda ATF FZ and labor is an unbelievable price as 12 quarts ATF FZ alone would cost you $15.33 MSRP (some dealers charge $18+ per quart) per quart X 12 = $183.96 USD before sales tax!

$259.99CAD. It may not be a flush in the traditional sense, but it is a full fluid exchange using a machine.

A good friend of mine is a mechanic at the dealership in question. I am 100% certain they perform a full exchange of the fluid....12 quarts.

Im good buddies with one of the mechanics there. They have adapters to complete the flushes through the dip stick and a pressure port. The last time I had it done he exchanged 12 quarts. I looked at my invoice again. It says Performed complete drain, flush-cycle and fill.

 

[JOE MAMA]

The invoice speaks for itself. I will gladly have the service performed by a friend at a dealer any day of the week over 4 drain and fill cycles. I was wrong in that the price was $10 more and it was 12L exchanged not 12 quarts (946mL in 1 quart).

My advice to anyone would be to have a fluid exchange completed by a competent dealer with the right equipment and make sure you’re getting a full fluid exchange. All of the Sky vehicles I’ve owned have been treated this way for an estimated 700,000+ kilometres. If the job is done properly, it’s safe and effective.

 

[sm1ke]

The invoice speaks for itself. I will gladly have the service performed by a friend at a dealer any day of the week over 4 drain and fill cycles. I was wrong in that the price was $10 more and it was 12L exchanged not 12 quarts (946mL).

My advice to anyone would be to have a fluid exchange completed by a competent dealer with the right equipment and make sure you’re getting a full fluid exchange. All of the Sky vehicles I’ve owned have been treated this way for an estimated 700,000+ kilometres. If the job is done properly, it’s safe and effective.

Going with a recommendation from a trusted friend who works as a mechanic would be good enough for me - but when you include the fact that your friend is a master tech at a Mazda dealership, I'd be much, much more inclined to trust him/her over a DIYer.

 

[ruthrj]

It sounds like he found a dealership that uses the proper adapter. That is not par for the course.

I’ve observed the full spectrum from those approaching dealerships for this service: its sealed and we won’t touch that, we swap all the fluid (turns out to be a single drain and fill), to what sounds to be a legit full swap per Joe. I’ll continue to DIY because I have no idea what my service center will do, it saves me $100 in labor, it’s not difficult.

Joes service simply isn’t available everywhere, so that’s why folks will need to drain and fill. It’s not that people don’t want this service or think it’s magic, we simply don’t have buddies who are Mazda mechanics with the proper equipment to do what is promised. YMMV

 

[sm1ke]

It sounds like he found a dealership that uses the proper adapter. That is not par for the course.

I’ve observed the full spectrum from those approaching dealerships for this service: its sealed and we won’t touch that, we swap all the fluid (turns out to be a single drain and fill), to what sounds to be a legit full swap per Joe. I’ll continue to DIY because I have no idea what my service center will do, it saves me $100 in labor, it’s not difficult.

Joes service simply isn’t available everywhere, so that’s why folks will need to drain and fill. It’s not that people don’t want this service or think it’s magic, we simply don’t have buddies who are Mazda mechanics with the proper equipment to do what is promised. YMMV

I agree 100%, my post is just supporting Joe in his decision vs. what yrwei52 was suggesting. Everyone's situation will be different - I, for one, am glad to hear that a Mazda master tech does have a solution outside of doing multiple drain and fills. I wouldn't bother to argue which is better because that would be splitting hairs - rather, its nice to know that there are options out there, regardless of how rare they may be. In all cases, we should do our due diligence when/if we decide to have this service done.

 

[ruthrj]

I agree 100%, my post is just supporting Joe in his decision vs. what yrwei52 was suggesting. Everyone's situation will be different - I, for one, am glad to hear that a Mazda master tech does have a solution outside of doing multiple drain and fills. I wouldn't bother to argue which is better because that would be splitting hairs - rather, its nice to know that there are options out there, regardless of how rare they may be. In all cases, we should do our due diligence when/if we decide to have this service done.

No offense taken. I’m actually envious that Joe has a guy that does the service without cutting corners.

 

[JOE MAMA]

Good service is hard to find these days for sure. I try to wrench on my Mazdas whenever I can. Fluid changes is one exception because I know the dealer can take care of it. I always ask that my buddy be assigned to my vehicle. Helps him out too because they’re paid by the job as opposed to hourly.

I had no idea there were that many dealers out there trying to rip people off with partial fluid changes. I suppose if that’s the only alternative, drain and fills would make the most sense.

 

[sm1ke]

Good service is hard to find these days for sure. I try to wrench on my Mazdas whenever I can. Fluid changes is one exception because I know the dealer can take care of it. I always ask that my buddy be assigned to my vehicle. Helps him out too because they’re paid by the job as opposed to hourly.

I had no idea there were that many dealers out there trying to rip people off with partial fluid changes. I suppose if that’s the only alternative, drain and fills would make the most sense.

Definitely. If my local dealerships aren't able to accommodate a full fluid change, I'd probably do it myself using the DIYs and info for the CX-5 as a reference.

320000 kms on your 2015 CX-5 is impressive, to say the least.

 

[yrwei52]

Going with a recommendation from a trusted friend who works as a mechanic would be good enough for me - but when you include the fact that your friend is a master tech at a Mazda dealership, I'd be much, much more inclined to trust him/her over a DIYer.

Many here are DIYer including me. If you much, much more inclined to trust a master mechanic from a Mazda dealer over a DIYer, that’s fine. But do you trust more to Mazda engineers than a master mechanic? Or do you trust more to one master mechanic than the other? This topic shouldn’t be here if we trust Mazda engineers because they don’t even recommend such service. Further, many Mazda master mechanics, such as the one at my Mazda dealer, will only follow drain-and-fill procedure in Mazda’s Factory Workshop Manual written by Mazda engineers to change a half of the ATF, and refuse to use unofficial adapters to change almost entire ATF.

The bottom line is, very few Mazda dealers can do (almost) entire ATF change with proper adapters like JOE MAMA’s did. And with 12 quarts of ATF we can do drain-and-fill 4 times which achieves similar 92% ratio of fresh fluid. So for DIYers, doing drain-and-fill multiple times is the best way for such service although I may only consider to do it once at 50K miles.

I still would like to know where is the pressure port which can be hooked up by one of the connectors from the ATF exchanger used by JOE MAMA’s Mazda dealer.

 

[ruthrj]

Many here are DIYer including me. If you much, much more inclined to trust a master mechanic from a Mazda dealer over a DIYer, that’s fine. But do you trust more to Mazda engineers than a master mechanic? Or do you trust more to one master mechanic than the other? This topic shouldn’t be here if we trust Mazda engineers because they don’t even recommend such service. Further, many Mazda master mechanics, such as the one at my Mazda dealer, will only follow drain-and-fill procedure in Mazda’s Factory Workshop Manual written by Mazda engineers to change a half of the ATF, and refuse to use unofficial adapters to change almost entire ATF.

The bottom line is, very few Mazda dealers can do (almost) entire ATF change with proper adapters like JOE MAMA’s did. And with 12 quarts of ATF we can do drain-and-fill 4 times which achieves similar 92% ratio of fresh fluid. So for DIYers, doing drain-and-fill multiple times is the best way for such service although I may only consider to do it once at 50K miles.

I still would like to know where is the pressure port which can be hooked up by one of the connectors from the ATF exchanger used by JOE MAMA’s Mazda dealer.

Im waiting for Unobtainium to drop in and say we’re all knuckleheadsfor even changing the fluid.

I kid I kid

 

[sm1ke]

This topic shouldn’t be here if we trust Mazda engineers because they don’t even recommend such service.

Mazda engineers don't recommend synthetic oil either.

An omission is not the same as suggesting that it shouldn't be done - at most you could argue that it's not their preferred method, which I would probably agree with based on Joe's unique situation. Still, that isn't the same as saying it shouldn't be done, IMO.

Further, many Mazda master mechanics, such as the one at my Mazda dealer, will only follow drain-and-fill procedure in Mazda’s Factory Workshop Manual written by Mazda engineers to change a half of the ATF, and refuse to use unofficial adapters to change almost entire ATF.

And yet, here we have an example of a Mazda master tech doing the service, with a printed invoice identifying the dealership and SA. If using such an adapter was frowned upon by Mazda, I don't think the dealership would allow it.

The bottom line is, very few Mazda dealers can do (almost) entire ATF change with proper adapters like JOE MAMA’s did. And with 12 quarts of ATF we can do drain-and-fill 4 times which achieves similar 92% ratio of fresh fluid. So for DIYers, doing drain-and-fill multiple times is the best way for such service although I may only consider to do it once at 50K miles.

Yes, the rarity of this situation has been established. It's interesting that you think performing a drain and fill 4 times is "the best way" when Joe's single service achieves a similar ratio of fresh fluid. DIYers like you (and possibly myself in the distant future) may save money by doing the drain and fill 4 times, but not everyone is willing to be under the car that often. In that sense, "the best way" depends on what the owner prioritizes (saving money or saving time/effort).

I still would like to know where is the pressure port which can be hooked up by one of the connectors from the ATF exchanger used by JOE MAMA’s Mazda dealer.

I suppose you could give them a call or email them if you wanted to.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I'm in solid camp of change the fluid if you intend to own 10 years and/or 150K+ miles.

 

[avi1777]

How does the flush procedure happen?
Thanks.