I can see your point for being pissed because your contract said nothing about it...I didn't think about that when I posted. Plus I have a short fuse, so when I see a chance to get pissed I take it...lol. The contract I have says the amp are B stock. I don't have to worry about it...I got an offer today to do a Memphis demo deal. All new products and an unbeatable price...best price I have seen. I'm in!!! You should look at getting a petition going...I'd sign it.
Seriously PISSED at JL AUDIO!
- Thread starter 1sty
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You're a jackass....MP3 in NH
I cannot believe you must come onto a forum with this type of imnormation in the first place. It's nobody's business what retailers get off of product from their vendors. Tweeter does not sell refurb amps to anyone over the counter without telling them first and giving them the amp at a substantial discount.
Did your amp sound any different after you found out it was a refurb? The answer is no, you just want something to piss and moan about. Before this is all over your personal accomadation previledge will be revoked and if you don't need this gig, the company doesn't need people like you. Thanks for playing.
I cannot believe you must come onto a forum with this type of imnormation in the first place. It's nobody's business what retailers get off of product from their vendors. Tweeter does not sell refurb amps to anyone over the counter without telling them first and giving them the amp at a substantial discount.
Did your amp sound any different after you found out it was a refurb? The answer is no, you just want something to piss and moan about. Before this is all over your personal accomadation previledge will be revoked and if you don't need this gig, the company doesn't need people like you. Thanks for playing.
Actually...Sir...you are the Jackass! 1st offered up information about the way a company treats it retail personnel and that is a direct reflection on how they might treat the average joe who buys stuff from them. IF they did not state originally that the merchandise that was being sold to him, whether at a discount or not, was refurb or otherwise 2nd hand merchandise and not clearly state this fact, then that is a bad way for a company to operate.ZOOMNP5 said:
How would you feel if you found out that a favorite restaurant of yours sold you a steak that someone else sent back because it was not done right and they checked it out and sold it to you without telling you it was sent back by another customer? This is basically the same thing.
Don't come onto this forum and start name calling people who are a valuable asset to the community. You obviously must work for a Tweeter by your comments. Tweeter and their subsideraries are nothing more than overpriced electronics store that only have the bottom line in mind and not the customers best interest. So in conclusion...**** Off!
- :
- 2006 Shadow Blue GLI
Well put. (werd)Rider69 said:
Wow...it's nice to see he has so many "followers"!! Opinions are like assholes, we all have one and they all stink. Great food analogy, steaks and amps, touche. Overpriced.......I guess if you like quality equipment and know what it actually costs that comment wouldn't have come from you pea sized brain.
I obvious you guys have your own idea of how a companies personel should behave so have at it and more power to ya!!!
I obvious you guys have your own idea of how a companies personel should behave so have at it and more power to ya!!!
ok...did you even bother to read the whole thread, ZoomNP5? His accomodation contract did not state that he was receiving refurb/B-stock equipment. And yet, that is what he was provided without due notice. Had someone in his store, with similar contract, or even himself, just taken an amp from the store while waiting for the accomodation piece to show up, the b-stock would go out to customers without informing them. This is where the issue lays.
As for his "followers"...he's provided plenty of good information to the members of this board and others. He's even helped me get on my way when he wasn't obligated. What you did was call out the highest posting member of this forum, who is also one of the most honest and helpful, in your what...2nd...3rd post? Now...seniority doesn't count here, it's a rule, but for God's sake, biother to read the whole thread before you go calling someone a jackass.
As for his "followers"...he's provided plenty of good information to the members of this board and others. He's even helped me get on my way when he wasn't obligated. What you did was call out the highest posting member of this forum, who is also one of the most honest and helpful, in your what...2nd...3rd post? Now...seniority doesn't count here, it's a rule, but for God's sake, biother to read the whole thread before you go calling someone a jackass.
You know guys, we all know who's worth listening to in here. So this guy thinks he's important. More power to him. Howmuch effort is it worth, though. It's pretty clear that 1sty's got a right to complain, and seeingas many of us in here are closely tied to the industry on some level, it's very informative. I'd also like to point out that were Craig less mature about this, he could just simply remove their posts. Juvinile uninformed attacks are more or less just silly, but perhaps he's just acting up to get some attention.
Why exactly is that?ZOOMNP5 said:
Do you think no one knows that we get discounts?
Hell many get it free in sponsorships.
The worst it can do is exite and bring new blood into a stumbling industry.
Its the buisness of anyone who wants to know about it. There is absolutely no clause hindering spoken word about the programs. Also people have a right to know, in total, the buisness practices of any public company. What your saying in no different then a company claiming it should not have to disclose that it does animal testing. The severity may not be the same but the concept is.ZOOMNP5 said:
Who said they did?ZOOMNP5 said:
I am sure you can find enough to argue with me about without making things up.
Ah yes, the typical bulls*** statement by someone that has no true understanding of cause and effect. Here's a hint chief.ZOOMNP5 said:
YOU ALREADY LOSED THE PROGRAM!!!
2 Years ago you would have recieved A-stock, last year everything but Amps were A-stock. NOW everything you get is B-stock. Can you see where this is going?? All becuase no one complaned and everyone took the plate of s*** served to them. Nice work, you just gave up one of the only perks the car audio industry has (thumb). What do you think will happen once all the other manufacturers see that JL is shipping B-stock for accomidations without compaint... THEY WILL START SHIPPING B-STOCK TOO!!!
Here's another hint but in the form of a question, try to fallow along:
What would you do if a company stopped its accomidations program?
I'd buy from another comapny still offering a program. Hence customers see me with that product and that product is now what I know the best. This is the same thing everyone would do. Hence JL would be killing there own sales by droppong the program. THEY KNOW THIS!!
A good example would be if JL didn't have their program last year at all, I would have filled it through Boston Acoustics and Eclipse.
The accomidations programs are not going to be removed. Although as far as I am concerned JL already removed their program. The best part about it is that everyone still pays as much for accomidations orders filled with B-stock as they did with A-stock. Think about it like this. We get 70% off retail. Whats the retail on a BSTOCK amp? Take a 300/2, Bstock sells for around $300, yet we pay 70% off of an A-stock amp and get B. **** that.
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Please read your own comments. Its the general attidute you have that is creating the finacial crisis the comapny is in. Too many people have the idea that the truth is for those who work at the stores only.ZOOMNP5 said:
I believe truth is for everyone that wants to know. Although I don't agree with Rider on every aspect, you will find I generaly defend the company here. You on the other left that aspect to it being only qualtiy. If you had spent time around here you would know that is in no way what he is refering too. As for actual cost, can you honestly defend a JL 250/1 being market up to $400, I sure as hell can't. I even tell customers that and always mark it down. It may seems dumb but I sell more of them then most other salesmen and I always have repeat customers.
You will find my "Fallowers" here like me becuase I don't lie to them, I give them relevent information without them asking for it, and i spend alot of timing helping and educating.
You have alot to learn about what a company "really" needs in its sales people.
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I just posted this on Carsound.com
It appears as if this post has been tracked back to me by JL and Tweeter Cooperate. Certainly this was not unexpected. I do not know what was said or what will be asked of my manager in this. To avoid any repercussions onto him from my actions, I am resigning tomorrow from Tweeter. My manager is outstanding, one of the best in the company in my opinion, and does not deserve to be cornered or at all held accountable in this. Nor will I accept my actions putting him in a bad position with the company or JL.
Just to be very clear!! JL and Tweeter, to my knowledge, have NOT asked him to take any action against me nor have they demanded anything. No one has asked me to resign; I choose to do this to ensure that no one is brought into this that may affect them negatively. That includes those in tweeter cooperate.<O
</O
I was always an outsider in this industry as I never had to rely on it to pay the bills. I went into it because I loved it and was tired of being mistreated when I was a customer. My non reliance on the industry certainly allowed me to be more candid about things compared to most other salesmen/installers. I find that most other salesmen/installers didn't like me for this. However, many customers of mine and those that I help on the car audio site that I moderate certainly appreciate my disclosure and advice. I am not speculating that other salesmen are, in any way, not saying what I am because they can't. They simply choose not to for there own reasons that I will not speculate on. I always have seen myself as a customer and discuss matters toward that mentality. This includes discussing subjects like accommodations when most no one in the industry will, at least not publicly.
My intent in starting this thread was misunderstood from the beginning, yet as the author of it, that is my own fault. I will try to be clear about my intentions now that I have certainly had some extra time to reflect.
1. I had hoped that others would realize that a benefit of theirs, for working in the industry, is being taken away. Not fully, but it is being reduced. B-Stock amps are the beginning of a bad path for you guys, and now rumor is it may be that everything from JL will be B-stock for us (accommodations orders). This can lead to some very bad reactions. If other manufactures see that only few of us care if our orders are filled with B-stock then they may very well fallow suit. Why sit by and do nothing? Sure its still a great deal that you get, but not as good as it was and that is a trend that continues. I fear that each year you will see these programs slip away like this. You guy have a lot of power if you simply comment about these things to your reps and the manufacturers. Perhaps you chose not to. Obviously, publicly talking about this is not your best course, although I still feel it was mine.
2. Those in this industry don't tend to make a lot from it. $30K/year is not much for something many people call their career. Certainly there are those that make more but most do not. To me this is like everyone saying nothing once there medical or dental coverage is cut. This is a benefit for you working in this industry, fight for it.<O</O
3. The form I used to fill out my order did not have the B-stock amp clause in it. I find that totally unethical. However, in hind sight, it was not that B-stock was shipped to me or even a cosmetic flaw that was the issue. In my opinion I simply did not get what I paid for. The program gives you a certain % off of retail. However, that is retail for an A-stock product. The form needs to be that percent off the retail of a B-stock product if thats what you get. For example, many of us sold B-stock amps last year and they were considerably marked down and sold clearly as B-stock. That is the price the % should be taken from and not the A-stock price.
All forms need to be very clear about what you will get. Certainly fine print is legal, but to me unethical, none disclosure is completely unforgivable. I am allowed to make those decisions as is everyone for what they believe is ethical. I do like that JL DOES make it clear on their current forms that B-stock will be used for amps. I would have hoped they would take great effort to ensure anyone making an order knew that, if their form was not yet up to date. Also that any further changes are disclosed to those ordering so no one gets anything other then what they expected. Letting people know they are appreciated is never a bad thing. To this extend, pulling back the generosity of these programs by using b-stock or lowering the % given means to many of us that we are not a priority any longer and we are the first area cutoff in search of higher profits. It may not be the case, but its an unmistakable impact.<O</O
4. The industry needs to stop trying to keep things like accommodations a secret. Like any other business practice, either be proud of it, or stop it! This doesn't mean I want accommodations to stop. Quite the opposite, I would hope that manufacturers would use this as an area of competition to gain the favor of those in the industry. After all, what is wrong with installers and salesmen knowing you are willing to take a lose on an amp to thank them for their support and service? Also don't be so damn concerned that consumers will find out. Just because no one seems to realize it, THEY DON'T CARE! At least not negatively. Certainly on its own it may be that a consumer will feel he's being ripped off. However, once you teach them that the accommodations are a thank you and a gift and in no way profitable, it makes a lot more sense. The WORST public disclosure of these programs can do is get people outside of the industry excited about car audio again. New blood in a stifling industry can not be bad. This industry is best tended by those that are passionate about it. As such, people brought in by accommodations as a perk are the kind of employees we need. They are the ones that are excited by this stuff. Certainly some will seek to misuse the program, that is what the employment limits in the contracts are for. It gives the employer time to feel out if the person hired is there to stay or just to get a quick discount. From experience now, I can say that one of the very disappointing aspects of this industry was how many of those in it really don't seem to be excited by it or want to do anything but get a paycheck anymore. Everyone seems exited about the products during sales presentations but in the moments when they arent potentially selling, it seems that any other subject is of more relevance.<O</O
5. The scare tactics used to keep accommodations silent and to keep people from negatively talking about products is ridiculous and one I would never accept being bullied by. If I feel a product is junk, I am going to say it is. I don't care to whom or on what level. Its my opinion and I am entitled to it and those asking for it are entitled to the truth.
It was amazing how many people said that I would get fired for even discussing this. Its true that I don't really care about that. As I have said, I was in the industry because I was passionate about it and wanted to learn. Why does anyone accept that they must be silent on a subject or risk their job? For discussing a product in development, I could understand that as we are often given and shown things that manufacturers have to protect or risk being copied and beaten to market. The strange thing is I can still not ever believe that JL would say I have to be fired. I still do not believe they would ever do this. Why does everyone else fell that they will? Have more faith in them. I may be pissed about a lose of benefits but I am not, nor was I ever concerned that they would flex to ensure my removal. Why does everyone fear that a company will? Do you know someone that was fired for talking? For transshipping, possibly but for discussing accommodations?
JL is still a good company that makes a great product and even over the last few months I find myself still recommending them as they have my faith for their products reliability and performance. Thats not a typical faith these days in this industry.<O</O
6. Most simply I wanted those in the industry, who still had out of date paper work, to know ahead of time what they would get. I had several people emailed me that did not know about this before I began this discussion.
<O</O
Hopefully this makes more sense and comes across a bit more mature this time around. Regardless of that, I am sure many will be happy that I will be no longer "in" the industry. Others that saw my points from the beginning, thanks for the support and emails that you sent with your own stories and issues with various companies. Regardless of what side youre on, I urge you guys to not give up a benefit you are getting even if it is one based on generosity. Let them know how you feel about this. Perhaps you already have.
It appears as if this post has been tracked back to me by JL and Tweeter Cooperate. Certainly this was not unexpected. I do not know what was said or what will be asked of my manager in this. To avoid any repercussions onto him from my actions, I am resigning tomorrow from Tweeter. My manager is outstanding, one of the best in the company in my opinion, and does not deserve to be cornered or at all held accountable in this. Nor will I accept my actions putting him in a bad position with the company or JL.
Just to be very clear!! JL and Tweeter, to my knowledge, have NOT asked him to take any action against me nor have they demanded anything. No one has asked me to resign; I choose to do this to ensure that no one is brought into this that may affect them negatively. That includes those in tweeter cooperate.<O
</OI was always an outsider in this industry as I never had to rely on it to pay the bills. I went into it because I loved it and was tired of being mistreated when I was a customer. My non reliance on the industry certainly allowed me to be more candid about things compared to most other salesmen/installers. I find that most other salesmen/installers didn't like me for this. However, many customers of mine and those that I help on the car audio site that I moderate certainly appreciate my disclosure and advice. I am not speculating that other salesmen are, in any way, not saying what I am because they can't. They simply choose not to for there own reasons that I will not speculate on. I always have seen myself as a customer and discuss matters toward that mentality. This includes discussing subjects like accommodations when most no one in the industry will, at least not publicly.
My intent in starting this thread was misunderstood from the beginning, yet as the author of it, that is my own fault. I will try to be clear about my intentions now that I have certainly had some extra time to reflect.
1. I had hoped that others would realize that a benefit of theirs, for working in the industry, is being taken away. Not fully, but it is being reduced. B-Stock amps are the beginning of a bad path for you guys, and now rumor is it may be that everything from JL will be B-stock for us (accommodations orders). This can lead to some very bad reactions. If other manufactures see that only few of us care if our orders are filled with B-stock then they may very well fallow suit. Why sit by and do nothing? Sure its still a great deal that you get, but not as good as it was and that is a trend that continues. I fear that each year you will see these programs slip away like this. You guy have a lot of power if you simply comment about these things to your reps and the manufacturers. Perhaps you chose not to. Obviously, publicly talking about this is not your best course, although I still feel it was mine.
2. Those in this industry don't tend to make a lot from it. $30K/year is not much for something many people call their career. Certainly there are those that make more but most do not. To me this is like everyone saying nothing once there medical or dental coverage is cut. This is a benefit for you working in this industry, fight for it.<O
</O3. The form I used to fill out my order did not have the B-stock amp clause in it. I find that totally unethical. However, in hind sight, it was not that B-stock was shipped to me or even a cosmetic flaw that was the issue. In my opinion I simply did not get what I paid for. The program gives you a certain % off of retail. However, that is retail for an A-stock product. The form needs to be that percent off the retail of a B-stock product if thats what you get. For example, many of us sold B-stock amps last year and they were considerably marked down and sold clearly as B-stock. That is the price the % should be taken from and not the A-stock price.
All forms need to be very clear about what you will get. Certainly fine print is legal, but to me unethical, none disclosure is completely unforgivable. I am allowed to make those decisions as is everyone for what they believe is ethical. I do like that JL DOES make it clear on their current forms that B-stock will be used for amps. I would have hoped they would take great effort to ensure anyone making an order knew that, if their form was not yet up to date. Also that any further changes are disclosed to those ordering so no one gets anything other then what they expected. Letting people know they are appreciated is never a bad thing. To this extend, pulling back the generosity of these programs by using b-stock or lowering the % given means to many of us that we are not a priority any longer and we are the first area cutoff in search of higher profits. It may not be the case, but its an unmistakable impact.<O
</O4. The industry needs to stop trying to keep things like accommodations a secret. Like any other business practice, either be proud of it, or stop it! This doesn't mean I want accommodations to stop. Quite the opposite, I would hope that manufacturers would use this as an area of competition to gain the favor of those in the industry. After all, what is wrong with installers and salesmen knowing you are willing to take a lose on an amp to thank them for their support and service? Also don't be so damn concerned that consumers will find out. Just because no one seems to realize it, THEY DON'T CARE! At least not negatively. Certainly on its own it may be that a consumer will feel he's being ripped off. However, once you teach them that the accommodations are a thank you and a gift and in no way profitable, it makes a lot more sense. The WORST public disclosure of these programs can do is get people outside of the industry excited about car audio again. New blood in a stifling industry can not be bad. This industry is best tended by those that are passionate about it. As such, people brought in by accommodations as a perk are the kind of employees we need. They are the ones that are excited by this stuff. Certainly some will seek to misuse the program, that is what the employment limits in the contracts are for. It gives the employer time to feel out if the person hired is there to stay or just to get a quick discount. From experience now, I can say that one of the very disappointing aspects of this industry was how many of those in it really don't seem to be excited by it or want to do anything but get a paycheck anymore. Everyone seems exited about the products during sales presentations but in the moments when they arent potentially selling, it seems that any other subject is of more relevance.<O
</O5. The scare tactics used to keep accommodations silent and to keep people from negatively talking about products is ridiculous and one I would never accept being bullied by. If I feel a product is junk, I am going to say it is. I don't care to whom or on what level. Its my opinion and I am entitled to it and those asking for it are entitled to the truth.
It was amazing how many people said that I would get fired for even discussing this. Its true that I don't really care about that. As I have said, I was in the industry because I was passionate about it and wanted to learn. Why does anyone accept that they must be silent on a subject or risk their job? For discussing a product in development, I could understand that as we are often given and shown things that manufacturers have to protect or risk being copied and beaten to market. The strange thing is I can still not ever believe that JL would say I have to be fired. I still do not believe they would ever do this. Why does everyone else fell that they will? Have more faith in them. I may be pissed about a lose of benefits but I am not, nor was I ever concerned that they would flex to ensure my removal. Why does everyone fear that a company will? Do you know someone that was fired for talking? For transshipping, possibly but for discussing accommodations?
JL is still a good company that makes a great product and even over the last few months I find myself still recommending them as they have my faith for their products reliability and performance. Thats not a typical faith these days in this industry.<O
</O6. Most simply I wanted those in the industry, who still had out of date paper work, to know ahead of time what they would get. I had several people emailed me that did not know about this before I began this discussion.
<O
</OHopefully this makes more sense and comes across a bit more mature this time around. Regardless of that, I am sure many will be happy that I will be no longer "in" the industry. Others that saw my points from the beginning, thanks for the support and emails that you sent with your own stories and issues with various companies. Regardless of what side youre on, I urge you guys to not give up a benefit you are getting even if it is one based on generosity. Let them know how you feel about this. Perhaps you already have.
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I agree with you dude... although I do think it is fine that they give you B-stock, they SHOULD not try to hide the fact. maybe they dont now, maybe that form you filled out was older and thus incorrect.. I dont know, and wont assume either way. but if they did this knowingly then it is unethical, and wrong.
anyways, sorry to hear about your troubles, and you can still moderate here anyday in my book. Regardless of what the corporate anything-for-a-buck types do or say.
anyways, sorry to hear about your troubles, and you can still moderate here anyday in my book. Regardless of what the corporate anything-for-a-buck types do or say.
I'm not even concerned with that aspect so much anymore. Hell maybe there was a small clause on the form somewhere I never saw, its possible. Its the fact that it is removing a benefit from an industry where those involved make little as it is. Looking back I am more pissed that those in the industry accept the removal of their perks and benefits without question.RyanJayG said:
No troubles. I could use my weekends backRyanJayG said:
. Also there are certainly other things that made we want to leave this was just a clencher.Also Tweeter really isn't, atleast in my opinion, an anything for a buck company, although sad to say I think they are gravitating in that direction.
huh, that sucks..i told you i knew people, and that this didn't need to be on the forums...
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