Seriously PISSED at JL AUDIO!

[1sty]

caveat emptor...... buyer beware......

1st is does suck...at Toshiba we do offer the same sort of deals for our emplyees and families..and also our channel partners... we DO however let the customer know what type of stock it is; second stock, refurb, new, damage box, etc.

I am guessing they either ASSumed that you knew....or that they didn't need to disclose the type of product it was. ...i would be pissed also...but its hard to for some to sympathize with you...at 70% off.

Lets face it....b-stock....could be as major as a complete "motherboard" overhaul.... or as simple as a switch.


Bottom line with every purchase you make as a customer is... the responsibility is that of the BUYER...and NO ONE else.

I aqm certainly NOT asking for sympathy!
I judge a company by how ethical there practices are. If JL is willing to sneak this s*** onto there installer (They are basicly unloading inferior proidcuts as if they are new.) then they are simply no longer an ethical company in my mind.
They may make a solid product, but these actions are unexussalbe to me, and as such I inform others so they can make there own decisions.

 

[1sty]

I bought B-stock because I am in college and did not have the money for new stuff. The amp still has the same warranty and mine has performed without flaw. I paid alot for mine compared to what you pay. I understand being mad because I like the best to, and I dont like not knowing that kind of stuff. But hard for me to simpithize with ya because I paid twice what you did and I am happy with mine. If yours has a scratch on it I would see if you can get the case replaced. The good thing is that if a scratch is what made it become B-stock then the internals are prob new.

I hope you get everything worked out and dont lose your job over this. If you like audio stuff it is nice to work in a store and get discounts.

I have not been on this post long, but it seems like people liek you on here. I am not trying to start any s*** with ya, and I dont think anyone else is either. So dont be pissed at me or anyone else for saying you should be glad you get stuff so cheap. Just kinda makes me feel bad because I paid alot for my B-stock and I am very happy with it. I talk JL up and show everyone my stuff. To see you bitching about paying half what I did for the same thing kinda sucks.

hope things get better. lata

Again I am not looking for sypathy.

Also consider I was planing on a show syste, I can't fo that with scratched up amps. Nor can the 50% of people using these programs.

 

[RyanJayG]

all told though... you did pay 70% off, and does it sound any worse? my guess is no... but the fact that they didn't tell you is unethical. but who am I to say, maybe they did in some small print or told every distributer, and your store failed to tell you... but like I said, I don't know.

 

[RyanJayG]

besides 70% off is better than most store's scratch and dent sales. where it is OBVIOIUS what the problem with the product is

 

[1sty]

the only thing im saying is in the contract it said that they will send you b stock amps and a stock speakers.so for him to pissed at them for that is stupid and is his problem.as for him pimpin jlaudio and doing so much for them than anyone else on the forums......you have no idea who is on here....maybe i work for them.....maybe i dont......maybe i build a car that won world finals and was in their magazine ads for 6 months.im not trying to toot my own horn but im so sick of people that think some people are the bomb just because they have been on the forums forever and talk about car audio.

They like me becuase I spend an ungodly amoun tof time helpoing people out. Be it here or my customers, I always do my best to hlep and be truthful. This is part of that being truthful. I am telling them what is going on when NO one else would. They can make whatever conclusions or decisions that have based on that. I will not jam it down there thoats nor will I lye and say that I hate JL products. I will say we are having increasing reliability problems with there amps and there sub warrenty is partly idiotic, especialy if you have a bad dealer. However they still make some of the best amp/subs/and speakers in car audio today.

The members here apreciate that and it is VERY rare to find in this industry. I know as I was on the otherside of that counter for a few years and I never found one shop or installer to talk to me turthfully or take any pride in the work they did for me.

The simple fact is it doesnot matter who you work for or to waht extent. All that matters is how much your willing to help others.

That being said I am not only in car audio for discounts. I love the stuff and I love talking about it. I would be there the same no matter what. Keep in mind for over a year I had no days off becuase I worked full time at my day job, then worked the full shift at tweeter on Satureday and sunday, then came in monday nights aswell. Then for a year i didn't go in for sundays anymore, once they had enough installers, and only recently I dropped monday nights as they have more sales people now.

I make roughly 50 grand at my day job and only $150 every 2 weeks at tweeter. I don't in any way need that money. I want to work in car audio.

The funny thing is most installers HATE ME! They hate the fact I put attention and time into customers cars and that they know damn well they make me sick by cutting corners and taking the "Looks good from my house" attitude.
Its funny though that customers and salesmen love my ass for that same reasons.

 

[1sty]

ok fair enough..do a search on stephanie warfel..she is my fiance,
1999 iasca zone 3 points champ..2001 1st iasca world finals..2002 1sh slapshow finals..i have a total of 5 iasca invites with 3 top 5 finishes..i have been an iasca judge for 4 years.also a slapshow judge for 2 years.i have been working in the car audio industry for 9 years.i also have been doing some speaker beta testing for mb quart.you can go to my stores website and check out a few cars i have done(i havent had a digital cam very long still scanning older pic)

as for the whole thing on him not knowing the jl gives out bstock amps its in the middle of the contract that he signed.and no its not in small print..maybe if he took some time and wasnt in a hurry it would have seen it.

I don't care what someone can win or in what they can place. To me the only thing that matters is how much time you are willing to help others.

How many times have you stayed up until 3 am helping someone with putting a system together that you have ZERO potential to make money on, and that you DONT EVEN KNOW!

How often to you take 3 hours on AOL to go over remote starter wiring tips and advice?

How often do you take the time in your store and actualy tell people that that product they are thinking of buying has been troublesome or that per there system, they don't need it.

I do these things every day but this bulls*** elitist aditude in caraudio means I am nothing becuase I was never in a competition.

 

[got wake?]

1. They will never get me fired, the manager loves my ass.

whoa craig, too much information how you got your job and how you keep it needs to be kept in the closet
j/k bro

i hear you on talking to people on AIM all the time. each week i spend 8-10 hours helping people. i look at it as it's giving me experience for when i do have my own shop. if i can explain something through just text, then in person with products in hand it'll be a helluva lot easier not to mention i like helping others, even if i can be a dick about it once in a while

 

[1sty]

ok this has gone alittle to far.i never questioned what you on what you know.i only started out saying that it is bulls*** of you telling jl to **** off for giving you b stock.

I am fully entitled to tell how ever I wish to **** off based on there buisness practices I find to be unethical.


..oh yeah also you are supposed to be a full time employee to get accomadations so i would just say you got an enev better deal. [/B][/QUOTE]

Thats not in the contract either. It just says you have to be an employee for 90 days. Also how is this even a deal? Its supposed to be simply part of the benefit of working in a car audio store. Its not a blessing I should thank the lord I have. If they want people to push there products they had damn well better offer there accomidations. Thats part of there success.

if you are the man you say you are call jl and tell them what you are doing and that you need "new amps" due to the amount of people that would be seeing your car.

Again you are totaly missing the point. It is not about me having to have a show system, although that does piss me off as I was supposed to recieve A stock amps. Its about finding there program unethical. The only way they can make that right with me is start to use only A stock product in there accomidations and to notify everyone with a Bstock amp and offer to swap it out.

This thread was about informing people as to a buisness practice I feel is wrong. Not about sympathy or simply bitching becuase I want a new amp.

as for my dedication,i tore down a tweeter install in the parking lot to replace a blown amp because they didnt have time to do it.

And you did this soley to help the owner?

ive pulled all nighters, after already putting in 50+ hrs.

Again to help someone that is not for a competition, that is not a friend or that is not a customer?

 

[got wake?]

ok this has gone alittle to far.i never questioned what you on what you know.

odd, then how are we supposed to take this comment:

im not trying to toot my own horn but im so sick of people that think some people are the bomb just because they have been on the forums forever and talk about car audio.

i took it as a direct attack at the knowledge of those of us that are well known around here for all the good advice we've given people. that's why i questioned to see what you knew, it was a matter of don't challenge me or any other knowledgable person without being able to back up any s*** talking.

i just call it like i see it. seems to me that craig has the right to be pissed, since if nowhere in the contract was anything saying they could give him B stock, then what they did was technically illegal.

 

[YP5 Toronto]

since if nowhere in the contract was anything saying they could give him B stock, then what they did was technically illegal.

incorrect.....assuming there was even a contract....it would be the buyer's responsibility to stipulate the terms and conditions of the product type not the seller. the buyer would have to stipulate they COULD NOT give him B stock...... therefor NOT illegal.

back to the BUYER BEWARE....

as consumers its important to understand the law..and your rights as a consumer...this type of incorrect information is misleading.

 

[1sty]

incorrect.....assuming there was even a contract....it would be the buyer's responsibility to stipulate the terms and conditions of the product type not the seller. the buyer would have to stipulate they COULD NOT give him B stock...... therefor NOT illegal.

back to the BUYER BEWARE....

as consumers its important to understand the law..and your rights as a consumer...this type of incorrect information is misleading.

I highly doubt there actions are illegal.
That contract is likely ANYTHING but leagaly binding.

 

[got wake?]

incorrect.....assuming there was even a contract....it would be the buyer's responsibility to stipulate the terms and conditions of the product type not the seller. the buyer would have to stipulate they COULD NOT give him B stock...... therefor NOT illegal.

back to the BUYER BEWARE....

as consumers its important to understand the law..and your rights as a consumer...this type of incorrect information is misleading.

that's like saying JL could give him a pyramid amp, as long as it's rated the same i'm sure it doesn't say in the contract that JL cannot do that as i understood it, at least for car audio, if it is anything but A-stock, it is the manufacter/retail store's responsiblility to inform persons purchasing that it is not A-stock. and if you order something from the manufacturer, or distributor, it is illegal for them to give you anything except A-stock, unless you request less, or they offer it to you. in warranty claims, if a product cannot be fixed, the manufacturer can offer you a B-stock item to replace it. that's how i understand it anyways. if it is totally legal for them to give out B-stock, and not stipulate in the contract for dealer accomidations, then it's pretty shady. or maybe it comes down to it was illegal or just extremely shady by their old contract, and made the new one that stipulates B-stock in it, like byohndspeed said

 

[1sty]

Regardless of if this was stipulated, would you have ever have thought JL would do this Wake?
I certainly didn't.

 

[byohndspeed]

ok here you go i scanned the first page of the form and circled the good spot..

 

[YP5 Toronto]

that's like saying JL could give him a pyramid amp, as long as it's rated the same i'm sure it doesn't say in the contract that JL cannot do that as i understood it, at least for car audio, if it is anything but A-stock, it is the manufacter/retail store's responsiblility to inform persons purchasing that it is not A-stock. and if you order something from the manufacturer, or distributor, it is illegal for them to give you anything except A-stock, unless you request less, or they offer it to you. in warranty claims, if a product cannot be fixed, the manufacturer can offer you a B-stock item to replace it. that's how i understand it anyways. if it is totally legal for them to give out B-stock, and not stipulate in the contract for dealer accomidations, then it's pretty shady. or maybe it comes down to it was illegal or just extremely shady by their old contract, and made the new one that stipulates B-stock in it, like byohndspeed said

I could spend a whole day trying to sum up the consumer law courses I took in university with you....but lets simplify this:

If I walk into a store and ask for a JL amp model 500 and the retailer hands me a Pyramid Amp; the box says Pyramid...the amp says pyramid. I then hand over $500 for it and take ownership of the Amp. I do not bother to read or ask about their return or exchange policy, which in this scenario the store does not offer either of the two. I then go home and realize that this AMP is not what I had asked for.... guess what... I own the amp...and there is nothing I can do about it.

Granted...this scenario is not an Example of what happened to 1st.

This is a very over the top example....but the message here is that it is again the Buyer's Responsibility to ask the questions, to gather all the required information, get it in writing.

We all take for granted the purchases we make....we walk into to "Best Buy" grab the a DVD...pay for it and walk out the door. Do you know how many different Licence Agreements you just signed into? Do you know what your rights are for exchange or refund? Did you read the store's policies on what you can do? Did you bother to see if those policies have changed since the last time you were there (assuming you knew what they were at some previous point and time)? Retailers do not have to legally offer anyone an exchange or refund...they do this because it makes business sense.

So this habitual nature that we all share repeats itself in some of our larger purchases; cars, houses, high end electronics.

Which brings me back to the point of: as a buyer...the RESPONSIBILITY lies with you. Granted..there are laws to protect consumers against BLATENT scams, but for those that have taken law.... you will understand that the laws are biased towards the seller and NOT the buyer.

I am not trying to point blame....or broadcast a "told you so" type of message. I am merely hoping that everyone REMEMBERS to ask the right questions and understand what they are buying when we ALL SPEND OUR HARD EARNED CASH.

 

[1sty]

ok here you go i scanned the first page of the form and circled the good spot..

Then you are correct, I defenitly did not use that form.

 

[got wake?]

I am not trying to point blame....or broadcast a "told you so" type of message. I am merely hoping that everyone REMEMBERS to ask the right questions and understand what they are buying when we ALL SPEND OUR HARD EARNED CASH.

good explanation i do check into everything before i purchase, but that's just to avoid headaches later but it is not common practice in the car audio community to sell B-stock without it being VERY well known to the buyer.

Then you are correct, I defenitly did not use that form.

JL probably realized that they needed to inform those using the dealer accomidations that they might get B-stock, so they don't get pissed like you did. and no, i would have never thought that JL would do that, especially to those who sell and install their equipment. they usually keep the B-stock to have the serial # filed off, and sell them with no warranty.

 

[1sty]

New update!

Rumor has it JL is now using ALL B-Stock products to fill all accomidation orders. For amps, subs and speakers. I have not confirmed this yet.

 

[parks853]

New update!

Rumor has it JL is now using ALL B-Stock products to fill all orders. For amps, subs and speakers. I have not confirmed this yet.

if that is true that is ****** up. hope they will cut the prices down.

 

[1sty]

if that is true that is ****** up. hope they will cut the prices down.

Keep in mind this is not on retail sold items. This is only for there employee purchase program. HOwever the funny thing is that I put this on Carsound.com too and caught a ton of s*** for it. Now most of the people that posted idiotic resposes basicly gave JL free reingh to now sell them ONLY B-stock. they had a chance to get them to change and instead encouraged their actions.

Some people just can't see the forrest through the trees(shrug)