Safeguard

[Little Beavis]

Starting a new thread rather than continuing to thread jack.

I will be installing my J&S Safeguard Sunday afternoon.

I was delayed by spending quality time on Saturday, but also confirming connections. I still am not away of how I should connect this to the TPS wire, or if it even matters. The rest of it is very straight forward, once you know the ecu pin numbers. (Thanks Turboge!)

Can anyone answer the TPS question? The unit attempts to "fake" the ECU to hit open loop earlier by sending a new signal, but it looks as though I'm only supposed to tap into the line rather than cut it and run it through the unit via an in and out wire. So, I'm tempted to not even hook it up.

Also, does it matter where the knock sensor goes. Basically, any bolt on the block?

 

[Little Beavis]

Some specs for those who care:

Knock retard can be set to max out at 10 or 20 degrees. If the unit detects knock it will pull timing. At the 10 degree setting it will pull timing in 1 degree increments. At the 20 degree setting, it will pull in 2 degree increments.

You can choose to retard all cylinders equally, or individually. Thus if you have knock on cylinder #4 and only on #4, you can retard the timing on that cylinder, while leaving the other 3 at full power (timing). Very cool.

You can set retard based upon boost. You get a dial that allows you to set a value ANYWHERE between 0 and 10 psi. This is when the unit will begin to pull timing. How much timing you ask?

Well, with another dial, you can set how much timing it pulls per psi of boost. In this case, a similar dial allows you to select between 0 and 2 degrees of retard. So, if you want 1/2 degree per psi, turn it a quarter of the way. Want more, turn it more. What 7/10th degree per psi, turn it 35%. You get the idea.

Then a "new" function. So you can turn down timing at boost, so you can retard timing when it senses knock. What about preventing knock at your torque peak? Well, it has a mid-range rpm based retard. You have a programmed (sorry, you can't change it, but you can have it programmed wherever you like) mid-range retard. This is designed to pull timing when the engine is under load (and making boost) and at a predetermined rpm range. In my case, I have it set to ramp up evenly from 3000 to 4000 rpm where it max's out until 4500 when it ramps back down to 5500. This means that I have full timing advance below 3000 and above 5500 when I'm boosting (except for the boost retard and knock retard) and I have full timing any time I'm not making boost. In fact, it also ramps up and down with the amount of boost I'm making, so running "loaded" at 1 psi, does not affect the timing. THUS MORE POWER!

Anyway, I'm sure those of you that took the time to read this novella, can see that I'm excited about this. I know that there are other things out there, and a nice piggy back or standalone could do something similar, but you have to feel good about having three ways to control your timing on a car that we have up until recently had NO control of timing whatsoever!

Anyway, that's my story, time for bed. . .

 

[LinuxRacr]

Cornholio,

I accually have a thread somewhere that speaks about what happens when you hook up the TPS wire. I have to search for it, but what happens is that when you enter boost, it will make your trottle positon like 100% even though you only have the pedal down like 25%. What this does is throws your car out of closed loop. I accually had my PDA Dyno hooked up, monitoring my TPS, and as soon as I entered boost, my Trottle position went to 100% even though I had the pedal pushed down partially. If you have the voltage clamp, you really don't need to hook up this wire.

 

[Little Beavis]

Then I won't hook up the wire I guess. I knew what it did, but. . . I just didn't understand how I could tap into the TPS wire and get it to "fake out" the ECU. Seemed like I would have to intercept it, change it, and send it back out.

I don't think TPS alone is enough to force the car into open loop, but that is another issue.

Thanks for responding. . .given that I don't need to hook that one up, then I'm almost good to go. . .

Last unknown then is just where to hook up the knock sensor. Pick a spot. . .any spot, I guess.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Well, I will tell you this also...when I did have the TPS wire hooked up, and I hit 0 PSI, it would INSTANTLY go super rich. So I think it did pull it outta closed loop into open loop.

 

[John at J&S]

Cornholio's trips the TPS modifier at 3.5psi.

 

[LinuxRacr]

That's sweet! I wish I had time to send mine in for reprograming.....

 

[Little Beavis]

Any input on the wiring of the TPS and the position of the knock sensor?

Does the TPS just splice into the wire, no diode or anything (thus sending voltage to the ecu and the sensor at the same time?

Does it matter where the knock sensor goes?

 

[LinuxRacr]

Any input on the wiring of the TPS and the position of the knock sensor?

Does the TPS just splice into the wire, no diode or anything (thus sending voltage to the ecu and the sensor at the same time?

Does it matter where the knock sensor goes?

Here is where mine is: http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25379&highlight=Bosch+Knock+Sensor

On the TPS wire, I just made it so that I could plug and play that wire to the J&S or it's self by using connectors. In other words, I made it easy to just dissconnect from the J&S and plug TPS wire back to itself.

 

[Little Beavis]

Oh wait. . .are you saying I cut the wire between the TPS sensor and the ECU and connect the ECU to the J&S (and the TPS sensor is just sitting there in limbo?). Hmmm. . .

Thanks for the link. . .that's exactly where I was thinking of putting it anyway. Thanks a ton man. . .

I guess I have no more excuses now. . .time to cut up the harness and get to work.

I will leave the TPS alone for now. . .since I have a voltage clamp anyway and it appears to be working just fine (via the wideband).

 

[John at J&S]

Do not cut the factory TPS wire. The J&S TPS modifier taps into the TPS signal. When it activates, it overpowers the signal, and pulls it up to 4.3v.

 

[LinuxRacr]

I accually used a Wire Tap on the TPS wire that I can just plug into. I remember now...

 

[Little Beavis]

Well, my install go delayed. . .I have to go to Mexico tomorrow morning for work. Sucks. . .anyway, the wiring is nearly complete, but I have yet to get the knock sensor installed. Crap.

Probably won't have it installed until next weekend. . .

John, if you are on. . .you have a PM. Got a question for you.

 

[turboge]

Viva Mexico! Sucks you have to delay the install, hate when things popup like that. I think off hand the TPS is Pin 89, just tap in if you feel like using it... its 0-5V upwards. No prob on the wiring I've been memorizing most of it the past 3 weeks for my Haltech install.

The J&S won't work with the factory Knock sensor?

 

[Little Beavis]

J&S doesn't work with the factory knock sensor. Apparently, the factory one doesn't have a ground, or something like that.

Man, let us know how the Haltech install goes. Which one you doing again?

 

[turboge]

Hmm weird.. The install is going well, I have most of it tuned right now but the stock injectors won't be adequate. Its all in my other post "E6K powered msp"

 

[1sty]

Just posting to stay updated

What was the cost of the J&S?

 

[Little Beavis]

J&S 2 channel is $495, but you need the Bosch knock sensor ($75 more). Then if you want a "pretty gauge" you have to pay extra as well, otherwise you use the light on the safeguard unit which changes in intensity as opposed to a line of leds.

So, it isn't the cheapest thing out there, but if you read up on it, you'll find a lot of good info (I couldn't find anything bad, but I'm sure there is some). Anyway, until there are "real" ecu options out there it is about the only way to go. . .at least for me right now. I hope the ecus are coming soon.

Turboge, how much for the E6K. . .with one of those, I'd have fuel and timing. . .hmmm. . .most interesting. . .more power!

 

[turboge]

I usually sell them for $1250 shipped. This includes the additional 3bar MAP sensor w/ connector, install guide, base map, and support. The E6X is out now so I'll be working with those on the MSP next.

I'm still doing R&D on the MSP and looking for the optimum setup for people who would be purchasing as a somewhat plug-n-play type setup.

Currently you will get a CEL since the injectors and coils will be disconnected from the ecu but it doesn't affect anything.

 

[Little Beavis]

Ahh, but I hate CELs. . .
What about us MP3T guys? Will you have something that works for us?

E6X controls timing too doesn't it? Can I buy your "used" E6K after your done for a discount?