Remove power steering?

[iluvmacs]

Is there a way to remove the power steering without screwing anything up? I've never been a fan, and the steering rack is pretty small to begin with, but I don't want to ruin any parts.

The belt that drives the PS also drives the A/C, correct? So to remove the PS I'd have to get a new belt...

Tell me how dumb you think this idea is.

 

[lpsalsaman]

Why would you want to take the power steering out???? The power steering on the P5's is actually power assist, so is not that soft like luxury cars that can be driven with one finger. If you take the pump completely out you may have to come up with a pulley and place it where the pump was to make up for the difference. You can disconnect the line that feeds the rack-and-pinion unit. However Bro, I think is a bad idea. (notcool)

 

[Brian MP5T]

I hate to be negative, but I really don't see why you would want to do that.

 

[Brian MP5T]

Is there a way to remove the power steering without screwing anything up? I've never been a fan, and the steering rack is pretty small to begin with, but I don't want to ruin any parts.

The belt that drives the PS also drives the A/C, correct? So to remove the PS I'd have to get a new belt...

Tell me how dumb you think this idea is.

Are you thinking about getting an extra 1/2 HP or what is your quest her...why did you wake up this morning and say..."I have to remove the power assist on my P5 NOW" (evil)

 

[+ friction]

I'm quoting CarTalk now twice in two days, but just happened to remember this recent discussion on power steering.

There are two consequences of removing powersteering: 1) it is a b**** to steer and 2) quoting here: "The second potential dire consequence is that the power-steering fluid that WAS running through his steering rack -- until it got disconnected -- is what lubricates the steering components. So right now, they're not getting any lubrication. And if he keeps driving it like this, eventually something could bind up and he could lose all ability to steer the car."

 

[Pretzellogic]

The power steering on our car kicks ass, besides. Why would you want to remove it?

 

[uclap5]

removing power steering is a kind of old school thing to #1 lose weight (usually its a good chunk), #2 put less load on the engine from the belts.

driving without power steering is pretty fun. a good workout. on my mk1 mr2 it had no powersteering. parallel parking was a b****, but i liked the feel of it.

 

[iluvmacs]

Hopefully I can reply to all at once.

lpsalsaman: I agree, good points

Brian: PS doesn't really hurt performance in any way other than belt drag and rotational inertia on the driveline. From my experience in other cars, only the A/C really drags hard on the driveline and the pulleys don't really contribute much.

friction: great post, I never thought of lubrication.

pretzel: actually, the PS on the P5 is the best I've driven, besides of course a car without it.

uclap: weight is one reason, IC piping is another, but I'd say belts has the least effect.

Just curious about removing it. My other cars don't have it (or didn't have it) and I was just curious to see how crazy the idea of removing it was. I'm not going to touch it.

 

[Brian MP5T]

I was saying that too. there is no real gain in removing it...(eekdance)

Hopefully I can reply to all at once.

lpsalsaman: I agree, good points

Brian: PS doesn't really hurt performance in any way other than belt drag and rotational inertia on the driveline. From my experience in other cars, only the A/C really drags hard on the driveline and the pulleys don't really contribute much.

friction: great post, I never thought of lubrication.

pretzel: actually, the PS on the P5 is the best I've driven, besides of course a car without it.

uclap: weight is one reason, IC piping is another, but I'd say belts has the least effect.

Just curious about removing it. My other cars don't have it (or didn't have it) and I was just curious to see how crazy the idea of removing it was. I'm not going to touch it.

 

[chuyler1]

As far as driving experience goes...we have variable assist power steering which means (correct me if I'm wrong) that at low speeds, such as maneuvering through parking lots, it kicks in while on the open road it acts like a non-power-steering car to give you a feel for the road and the car's handling.

 

[lpsalsaman]

As far as driving experience goes...we have variable assist power steering which means (correct me if I'm wrong) that at low speeds, such as maneuvering through parking lots, it kicks in while on the open road it acts like a non-power-steering car to give you a feel for the road and the car's handling.

Exactly was one of my points earlier. Even at slow speeds we have to use some effort. You just can not use one finger to move the steering wheel like u would on a Caddi. (attn)

 

[redwagon02]

Driving w/o the power steering is a b!tch. When my drive belts broke a few weeks ago, I lost everything, PS, water pump, alternator everything. This was the worst car I drove w/o power steering. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

 

[Brian MP5T]

So, the result of this thread...

Don't Do It!!

 

[Khoifather]

Amazing raisin...

 

[iluvmacs]

Since moving to Pittsburgh, I've had many an opportunity to coast down long long hills at high speed. If you turn the engine off (no power steering) the car is still very very hard to turn even at 70mph.

I think it has to do with the steering ratio. I had a civic with less of a steering rack ratio (steering wheel turns vs. wheel degree change) and it was less of a challenge to steer at 5 mph than the protege at 70.

If anyone has a better explanation I'd love to hear it.

 

[anarchistchiken]

Well I know you're right at least about the ease of the civic. I'm not entirely sure about what makes it so, but civic were designed (pre 7th-gen) to be non-power steering. Poer steering was an option. The protege, on the other hand, was designed to have power assisted steering, so they didn't worry about making it easy to turn when the PS was dissconected or removed.

 

[scotthidley]

I've never seen so much bad info in 1 thread before. Power steering fluid travels a closed circuit. It basically fills a cylinder (opposing sides depending on what way the wheel is turned), which pushes the rack one way or the other. The only lubricating it does is at the pump, which would burn the seals if it was run with no fluid. To properly disconnect the p/s you'd need to make a jumper hose that connects the inlet and outlet ports of the gear, and disconnect the p/s belt (if other accessories are common, you'd have to figure that part out). Variable assist is basically a pressure sensor or switch in the system, that allows the fluid to stay at a higher pressure under the right conditions. This system is good as it creates a higher effort while driving, making it a little more difficult to roll the car (as the wheel is harder to turn,...). The pump is constantly flowing the same amount of fluid (rpm dependant). The pressure that it generates is relieved by the pressure switch/sensor, so when it goes in relief (regular driving), it will still flow the fluid, but will generate very little pressure. Most of the effort/work done by the pump is in parking manuevers when the car is going it's slowest. Because the pump does put a natural drag on the engine, the base idle is usually bumped up some to keep the engine from stalling (some times the pressure sensors are used to kick up the rpm's if the pressure gets too low, switches can't do this).

Non power steering cars will be easier to drive that p/s cars with the belt taken off, as you now have to force the fluid through the rack (non p/s cars don't have this). The best way to get around this is finding a non p/s rack, and swapping it with the p/s one.

There would be a small performance gain by eliminating the p/s, which I find funny that people are knocking this. The funny part is many people here (including me), have CAI's, which really don't make much of a difference at all, yet they're also making fun of the small gain you'd get from p/s deletion. Also a complete p/s elimination would help clean up the engine bay quite a bit, for those that care.

 

[LTD-Scott]

I work for a company that deals specifically with steering parts (www.carsteering.com) and Scotthidley, you are right, EXCEPT the rack seals and bushings do rely on fluid as lubrication somewhat.

That being said, I would not convert a car to manual steering unless it was done using an actual manual steering rack. Power steering racks are able to have quick ratios (our P5s are pretty quick) because of the power assist from the pump. This is what allows us to be able to steer the wheels while the car is at a dead stop. If you remove the power assist, it would be ridiculously hard to steer at low speeds. Manual steering racks have a slower ratio because they have to. So it's sort of a toss up.

 

[scotthidley]

I work for a company that deals specifically with steering parts (www.carsteering.com) and Scotthidley, you are right, EXCEPT the rack seals and bushings do rely on fluid as lubrication somewhat.

That being said, I would not convert a car to manual steering unless it was done using an actual manual steering rack. Power steering racks are able to have quick ratios (our P5s are pretty quick) because of the power assist from the pump. This is what allows us to be able to steer the wheels while the car is at a dead stop. If you remove the power assist, it would be ridiculously hard to steer at low speeds. Manual steering racks have a slower ratio because they have to. So it's sort of a toss up.

The slower ratio just reduces the needed effort from the driver without assist (it's like using a longer wrench). If they make the jumper line, then the rack will still be able to keep oil on it's seals as well. I pulled the belt off my Talon for another reason. I've driven it with the lines still connected. This is with 225/45R17 Dunlop SP9090 tires. While it takes a good amount of effort to turn the wheels at a stop, it is still very possible (and this is without making the jumper which would greatly reduce the efforts). I work for a steering company too. We just deal with the hoses and tuning, I also handle trans cooler lines as well. I could even name a few engineers, managers at Sas, who is the hose supplier for the P5's lines (I've even been to their rubber plant in Painesville Ohio )

 

[Gen1GT]

I have had the power steering off my car for 2 years. Yes, it's hard in a parking lot, but I'm a big guy, and I can handle it. Putting a manual rack on, IS NOT THE SAME. Manual racks have a slow ratio, so they're not fast and direct. Also, removing the power steering has created MUCH more feedback. Also, my car, with the only mods being axle back muffler and deleted power steering baselined at 110.9whp. The car had 125 crank from the factory. Come to your own conclusions on that. Not only does removing the PS free up a couple hp(even when you're not steering, the pully is being turned), I lost about 40lbs worth of pump, bracket, hoses etc.