Realistic Gains
- Thread starter JMDPRO5
- Start date
Little Beavis
Member
- :
- 2001 MP3-T (#911)
Just to mess with you. . .
Spool Stage 3 kit for 100 whp "extra" is $3595!
$36/hp! What a deal. . .
Alright Terry what do I win?
Spool Stage 3 kit for 100 whp "extra" is $3595!
$36/hp! What a deal. . .
Alright Terry what do I win?
i can tell you that you will get prob 20 whp w/header & intake & cat back ext. very good upgrades for the money. i have all these upgrades and it made my car even more fun to drive. the header is were you will find most the extra power the frist cat it way to resrictive. hope it helps, peace out
IMO 20whp is way too high for those mods with this car.
5-7 WHP and is more in line. If that.
Now if you go
Header
High comp pistons
Intake
exhaust
cams
Then you MAY be getting in the 20 extra WHP range.
The above modifications combined with a way to tweak the ECU or going to a stand alone setup would net even more.
5-7 WHP and is more in line. If that.
Now if you go
Header
High comp pistons
Intake
exhaust
cams
Then you MAY be getting in the 20 extra WHP range.
The above modifications combined with a way to tweak the ECU or going to a stand alone setup would net even more.
Yep, what he said. Except I'd say you will get at least 10 hp at the wheels. But the torque you will lose will negate what you have gained in hp. N/A on this motor just isn't that great untill you get the HC pistons and then spend some serious money on the head. If I wanted a NA FS motor, I'd get the HC pistons, then have the head shaved so the compression was raised to about 11:1. than I'd get the headder and catback and intake. Then you may be looking at about 160hp at the wheels.
its funny that 20 whp is to high!
you figure cai=2-4 whp
racing mazda headers=12-15whp
cat back ext=5-7 whp on a good one.
its funny how you say 5-7 whp on all these mods my header along gave me twice the amount you gave for all these mods.
and thats a fact.
p.s its ture you loose some low end but you gain alot of high end power witch is allways the case in putting on a header.
you figure cai=2-4 whp
racing mazda headers=12-15whp
cat back ext=5-7 whp on a good one.
its funny how you say 5-7 whp on all these mods my header along gave me twice the amount you gave for all these mods.
and thats a fact.
p.s its ture you loose some low end but you gain alot of high end power witch is allways the case in putting on a header.
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At 11:1 compression with this engine and car you would need alternate engine management or race gas.
Read my "fun with wideband o2" thread.
The stock ECU has basically three modes and three priorities.
1. Converter efficiency, best compromise emissions and lowest NOx emissions. Highest priority mode-Stay at 14.7:1 as mush as possible.
2. Engine safety(Lower warranty costs mean mo money for Mazda/Ford). So second priority mode is-Go open loop and WAY 10:1 rich at higher loads and or revs.
3. Moderate load enrichment. This part confuses me. Under light loads the car will go open loop and hold in the 13:1 range( the root of the lackluster highway fuel economy). If you let off the gas and get back on it will go back closed loop and 14.7. I don't understand the need to go that rich under light loads. My current theory is that the ECU is detecting detonation in these conditions and running on the rich side of 14.7 to squelch it.
The point of my babbling is. At 11:1 compression, part throttle moderate load conditions(where most of your time is spent) when the computer is closed loop and 14.7:1, it would tend to detonate like crazy. Then you go open loop and your way rich to take advantage of your mods.
Read my "fun with wideband o2" thread.
The stock ECU has basically three modes and three priorities.
1. Converter efficiency, best compromise emissions and lowest NOx emissions. Highest priority mode-Stay at 14.7:1 as mush as possible.
2. Engine safety(Lower warranty costs mean mo money for Mazda/Ford). So second priority mode is-Go open loop and WAY 10:1 rich at higher loads and or revs.
3. Moderate load enrichment. This part confuses me. Under light loads the car will go open loop and hold in the 13:1 range( the root of the lackluster highway fuel economy). If you let off the gas and get back on it will go back closed loop and 14.7. I don't understand the need to go that rich under light loads. My current theory is that the ECU is detecting detonation in these conditions and running on the rich side of 14.7 to squelch it.
The point of my babbling is. At 11:1 compression, part throttle moderate load conditions(where most of your time is spent) when the computer is closed loop and 14.7:1, it would tend to detonate like crazy. Then you go open loop and your way rich to take advantage of your mods.
I have yet to see any direct and legitimate before and after dyno runs with CIA, Mazda Headers, cat backs and such. Most of those 5-7 for this, 10-15 for that HP figures are estimates.
Show me some solid back to back dyno runs pre and post mod on the same dyno, same day, same conditions, same corrections etc...Then I will believe.
Look at how the pro shops do it. FlyinMiata runs the Turbo Protege with stock exhaust, then they put their cat back on and run it again. Bam. Real hard believable data, real gains.
HP figures in the 5-10 hp range are too easy to fudge on a chassis dyno.
Show me some solid back to back dyno runs pre and post mod on the same dyno, same day, same conditions, same corrections etc...Then I will believe.
Look at how the pro shops do it. FlyinMiata runs the Turbo Protege with stock exhaust, then they put their cat back on and run it again. Bam. Real hard believable data, real gains.
HP figures in the 5-10 hp range are too easy to fudge on a chassis dyno.
1FASTMP5 said:
You can't just add up the power claimed by companies. Companies usually exagerate their gains by loading ice packs on the intake and things such as that. And they also use correctin for their dyno plots. Which I don't agree with. Did you dyno your car before these mods and then after them? If not, how do you know what your car is putting to the wheels? I know for a fact that you will not gain over 20hp with those mods. Ok, maybe 21hp.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but 130whp isn't that much. That's still pretty weak. A piece of crap civic motor has more potential than that. All I'm saying is that this motors only potential is in FI. I know someone will say, "The Protege race cars are putting out 225hp NA." Well, guess what, they have an aluminum block along with about $50,000 in other mods not to mention the fact that I think they rev to 8000rpm. Do any of you want to spend $50,000 to get 225hp? I didn't think so.
Yep, the old bags of ice on the intake trick always works the best. And I say again, you can't just add up the power of 5hp from CAI, 10 to 15hp for Headders, 5-7hp for cat back, etc. That does not work. It sounds good, but that isn't how it works. Do you add the 10hp that K&N claims from their filters. Their fine print says, "up to insert crazy number here hp gains". They don't tell you that that was what a car with 300hp got from it. It's easy to get big improvements from an already powerful motor. But from a motor that isn't powerful, it's near impossible without expensive parts.
Nobody is saying that 130whp is or isnt good.
Proven with dynos posted in this site, states that those mods will add that amount of power.
And of course will loose torque, the intake, header and exhaust will make the air and exhaust gasses flow more efficiently, so the car will have better high end power.
I think Traveler has some mods and have dynos too. Not so aggressive mods, but at least is something you can use.
