Questions concerning MS3...

[bumpin_p5]

Hey everyone, I own a non-boosted P5, but seriously considering trading in on a MS3 and I have a few questions that you all might be able to answer better than I can look for on the internet. Here goes:
Will the MS3 have a turbo timer? If not, then why?
Will you be able to change the boost on the MS3?
Thats pretty much it for now, i really dont know that much about the darkside of boosting so any help would be nice. Thanks.

 

[jbiird317]

Hey everyone, I own a non-boosted P5, but seriously considering trading in on a MS3 and I have a few questions that you all might be able to answer better than I can look for on the internet. Here goes:
Will the MS3 have a turbo timer? If not, then why?
Will you be able to change the boost on the MS3?
Thats pretty much it for now, i really dont know that much about the darkside of boosting so any help would be nice. Thanks.

I havent heard of anything about a stock turbo timer or boost controller. Both of these would have to be aftermarket additions.

On a side note, I think that the new scc thats out says something about the weakness of the stock turbo, so if you plan on boosting much over the stock psi you'll need to upgrade the whole system

 

[seanw]

Hey everyone, I own a non-boosted P5, but seriously considering trading in on a MS3 and I have a few questions that you all might be able to answer better than I can look for on the internet. Here goes:
Will the MS3 have a turbo timer? If not, then why?
Will you be able to change the boost on the MS3?
Thats pretty much it for now, i really dont know that much about the darkside of boosting so any help would be nice. Thanks.

From what I've read, a turbo-timer is largely unnecessary since the turbo is water-cooled. The MS6 manual warns you to idle the car for a minute only if you have just been running at high speed or uphill immediately before shutoff. Mazda6club has a lot of threads about boost controllers. I think at least a couple of MS6 owners have added them.

 

[bumpin_p5]

K thanks for the info

 

[Captain KRM P5]

From what I've read, a turbo-timer is largely unnecessary since the turbo is water-cooled. The MS6 manual warns you to idle the car for a minute only if you have just been running at high speed or uphill immediately before shutoff. ********** has a lot of threads about boost controllers. I think at least a couple of MS6 owners have added them.

the fact that the turbo is water and/or oil cooled is not critical to whether or not the car needs a turbo timer. many turbo timers let the car run depending on how long the car was driven on that particular drive. even if water and oil cooled, an exhaust charge is several hundred degrees running through that turbocharger and that heat can and will affect bearings and other internal components and can lead to shaft play or parts failure over time.

i don't know of many if any factory cars come with boost control or turbo timers. from a warranty standpoint, its a poor idea to allow the end user to control the vehicle boost setting. increasing the boost without regard to other modification is the fastest way to blow an engine apart on any car. caution is advised when playing with amount of air being forced into your engine. if it is pushed beyond the point where the ECU is programmed to add the appropriate amount of fuel, your engine is toast.

 

[Mspeed3]

well put the stock psi is 16 psi which is plenty. I plan on just putting exhuast HKS BOV and guages in the car. The rest will be cosmetic mods( tint, rims, CF hood with topmount scoop if they ever come out?)

 

[B1GHAM]

yeah ken summed it up nicely.

turbo timers donot come stock, however even if water cooled, its worth waiting a minute to shut down. this allows the turbo to do two things... stop spooling (in the event that you were just in boost before parking) and cool the turbo off. The coolant is only running through the turbo when the vehicle is on, so this will help dissipate a lot of heat if given about a minute to idle.

There is also no boost controller stock. one downside to the turbo used is that it is a small turbo and therefore its effeciency range (in regards to boost) is fairly low (about 18 psi max, though Im not EXACT on that number). Any more boost than that on the stock turbo could cause issues. The upside to the smaller turbo is that there will not be as much turbo lag. Boost will come on quick and early. As opposed to larger turbos which will have a much greater lag (sometimes not hitting full boost until 3.5k rpm - 4k rpm vs. the MS3's 2.2krpm).

Sean

 

[seanw]

yeah ken summed it up nicely.

turbo timers donot come stock, however even if water cooled, its worth waiting a minute to shut down. this allows the turbo to do two things... stop spooling (in the event that you were just in boost before parking) and cool the turbo off. The coolant is only running through the turbo when the vehicle is on, so this will help dissipate a lot of heat if given about a minute to idle.

....

If you want to be extra safe, do it for the one time when you have JUST been stomping on it and immediately shut off the engine. Otherwise, http://forum.mazda6tech.com/viewtopic.php?t=5058; http://www.spdusa.com/turbo_timer.htm:

The use of turbo timers to shut the engine off some preset time after the ignition key is removed was needed in the old days. Early turbocharger bearing housings were only cooled by the lubrication oil of a running engine passing by the turbine bearing. If the engine was shut of when the turbine was still very hot excessive heat wick into the turbo bearing and seal area, cooking the oil to black carbon, causing bearing/shaft failure and heavy oil consumption. The newer (for over 15 years now) style turbo housings are water cooled as well as oil cooled. The original EJ20 Subaru turbo motor took advantage of water cooled bearings from the start and have never had this problem due to a unique design feature we will now explain. It is the reason you do not need to purchase a turbo timer.

The Subaru WRX engines have their water catch tank high on the engine above the turbocharger. It is that little can where you check the water level. When the engine is shut off the water continues to circulate via a physical property of water called a thermal siphon. Simply put, hot water rises up to the catch tank, being drawn from the relatively cool cylinder head water jacket up through the turbo housing. This nifty little idea works every time you turn off your engine.

One still needs to take a cool down lap at the track and perhaps should not stop at the top of a mountain pass to enjoy the view if you have been on the boost all the way up, but for the other 99% of the time there is no need to let the engine idle for a minute before shutting off ignition. Even when the engine is off, the cooling water will circulate past the turbine bearing housing.



And from: http://www.honeywell.com/sites/ts/t...VLKWYOU4WSHCYG8IPKHVTBGL6E7F0813115256106.htm

Q. What water flow rates are acceptable for turbo operation?
A. Water-cooling of turbocharger bearing housings has been widely used to enhance bearing durability. It is designed to remove heat from the center housing after the engine is shut down. This is accomplished because a thermal siphon is set up in the center housing. As heat from the turbine housing and exhaust manifold soaks into the center housing, the water is vaporized and rises, drawing in cooler water. This continues until there is insufficient heat to cause the process to continue.

 

[Nutari]

thank you for this. I've been wondering if I should buy a TT. Well, I can invest that money into something else.

 

[BSTD3]

I have a dumb question. Is the small turbo in the Speed3 self-contained or does the oil from the engine help lubricate the internals? I am thinking it is self contained but wanted to know if anyone knew for sure.

TIA...

 

[clos561]

well put the stock psi is 16 psi which is plenty. I plan on just putting exhuast HKS BOV and guages in the car. The rest will be cosmetic mods( tint, rims, CF hood with topmount scoop if they ever come out?)

it may be good to have hood scoop along with the scoops in the grill. it may **** it up tho the air wil counter act itself

 

[B1GHAM]

I have a dumb question. Is the small turbo in the Speed3 self-contained or does the oil from the engine help lubricate the internals? I am thinking it is self contained but wanted to know if anyone knew for sure.

TIA...

oil is fed directly from the engine. This is why it is especially important in turbo charged cars to change the oil on time and frequently. The extra heat associated with the turbo will cook the oil and break it down quicker than a conventional N/A car.

 

[1ofdfew323]

Thank you! Very good info!

 

[Mr. Win]

the fact that the turbo is water and/or oil cooled is not critical to whether or not the car needs a turbo timer. many turbo timers let the car run depending on how long the car was driven on that particular drive. even if water and oil cooled, an exhaust charge is several hundred degrees running through that turbocharger and that heat can and will affect bearings and other internal components and can lead to shaft play or parts failure over time.

i don't know of many if any factory cars come with boost control or turbo timers. from a warranty standpoint, its a poor idea to allow the end user to control the vehicle boost setting. increasing the boost without regard to other modification is the fastest way to blow an engine apart on any car. caution is advised when playing with amount of air being forced into your engine. if it is pushed beyond the point where the ECU is programmed to add the appropriate amount of fuel, your engine is toast.

I love ken.