Possibilities going N/A

[jaman]

So people always talk about 'lag' on turbo engines. So if you tune a NA engine for big horsepower (meaning high rpm), won't you have super 'lag' at about 2.5k rpm before the engine finaly starts to develope some real power (a la Honda S2k).

This is comparing apples to apples, so no downshifting, just cruise at 2.5k rpm in 3rd gear and mash the throttle, who gets to the good part of the powerband sooner, small turbo or modded NA?

 

[twilightprotege]

modded na....coz you wont need to wait a time for the turbo to spool up. the closer you are to the peak hp in a na car, the more noticable this will be

 

[5speedP5]

it all really depends on what kind of power band you NEED, or power you're looking for. this is always a common misconception when it comes to hondas especially, imo. The high end powerband they have seems rediculous for most of us, but you think (in case of the type rs, s2000, etc) these cars were designed as a track car, you're gonna want more power up high, and more area to work with. atleast this is my perseption of it all. so in general having to rev the piss out if it can be usefull sometimes

haha my stupid useless thoughts.... oh well

anyways, from what ive been seeing, the missing links on our FS engines seem to really be the lack of a good header (no longer), some headwork, and a set of highlift cams (not the mazdaspeeds or ze cams)

 

[Big D]

This is where the Phantom Cruiser info is if anyone is interested.

http://www.redshark1.com/phantom.html

Big D

 

[Synthesis5]

must agree on the amount of informed people on the boards, their very very helpful. the way im going is n/a, just becasue i like to add little things at a time, and not have to put down a payment of of 3 to 5k on a turbo. i dont know, its not that i dislike turbos or anything. my 5 is the first car i actually took seriously in modding, so i quess i just want to go both ways, and the five is going n/a. the next car, if all works out, will go turbo. just my 2 cents on how i see it. (rockon)

 

[DooMer_MP3]

The title of this thread is Possibilities going N/A. And there are definitely possibilities. 130whp is already possible with under a grand in mods. I can see with proper tuning at least 150whp, and thats really all I want.

The problem with turbo for me is to do it right and not risk a blown motor, you need to have proper tuning right off the bat, and its not cheap. I'm not saying NA isn't cheap either, but you can do it in steps. I don't think I'll ever have $5k at once for a properly tuned turbo setup. But I can easily buy something here and there and slap it on.

Chris

 

[5speedP5]

you know, thats exactly what im thinking, im not looking to spend a big chuck at once, just a little here and there, and 150whp.... thats all i want too... and if thats possible, then im happy

 

[Darin]

People to talk about "Having to wait for the turbo to spool" have not driven a properly turbo'd vehicle. My PGT can go from zero boost to 8psi in less than 500rpms.

 

[IainK]

As another Aussie, we're deprived of the Mazda piston engine-tuning parts you Yankee guys have. I'm keeping mine an NA cause insurance is a b**** ($AUD1470 per year with a $AUD1000 payment if I make a claim).

Yes, turbos are beaut if you want the best dyno-queen, but you gotta remember, this chassis wasn't built to withstand 250whp+. I know this as I've talked to one of my colleagues who works for a sister magazine & DESIGNED the MX-5/Miata, You might have heard of him: Bob Hall...
He told me bout the Pro5 and all, and it was his advice that made me choose this over a 1980s Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 or Evo. He also said two very interesting things:

The 1.6L makes responds really well to supercharging, giving it the torque to compete with 2.0L in driveability

The 2.0L 5-door can be tuned really hard in NA or Turbo, but the quickest STREET car the engineers found was a mild-tune NA (intake, cams, ECU, exhaust, etc) with LSD, good suspension mods, hi-po tyres, big brakes

 

[twilightprotege]

i'm with you synthesis. what i'm actually going is build up my motor to be as strong as possible, with every mod being the last i'll do to is (like the cams i'm getting ground at the moment)....and once the car is all completed, turbo is the very very very last mod. it'll be like icing on the cake

 

[twilightprotege]

iaink, god that's a shocker....email me with your rating etc for your insurance and i'll see what i can do (i work for suncorp) - if i didnt get staff discount we can do $850 per year with $350xs

so darin, back to my previous posts......what power do you think my mods will give???????

 

[Installshield 2]

People to talk about "Having to wait for the turbo to spool" have not driven a properly turbo'd vehicle. My PGT can go from zero boost to 8psi in less than 500rpms.

A KL V6 (such as that in a PGT) has a much better exhuast pulse rate (it has 500 more cc's of displacement, and two more cylinders which immensely helps turbo spool-up compared to a FS), which is why you have very little lag...Any small displacement four cylinder engine will suffer from noticable low or throttle-on lag with a turbo capable of compressing more than 5-6psi...depending on compressor and turbine size it can be very annoying or just minor...

You are correct that with research and hours of viewing comressor graphs and maps, that a proper turbo can be chosen for the application which will almost illiminate lag on a FS...Your KL has little or no lag for more reasons than just a correct turbo...

 

[5speedP5]

*BUMP*

 

[Installshield 2]

Yeah, these NA discussions seem to get great traffic and then bite it within a few hours...

 

[igdrasil]

the problem with most people that makes comments, is that they just do NOTHING.

To denial, not believe, or just being skeptical will not help.

Some claim what they think, most people is so convinced of it, start arguing about stuff they THINK THEY KNOW...that is just plain ridiculous.

MOD THE CAR....and lets see what you can get out of it.

Im turbo now, but i still want to see how good this car performs in N/A...because I may get bored with the turbo and return to N/A setup.

I just cant test stuff because...you know, im turbo.

 

[Darin]

...Your KL has little or no lag for more reasons than just a correct turbo...

Actually, my turbo is VERY MUCH too small for my motor - it's off the map.

There are guys with larger turbos hitting 290whp at 6-7psi...On paper their turbo's are sized right...I do OWN them down low, however

 

[twilightprotege]

i'm still waiting for darin to tell me what power my mods will give

 

[Installshield 2]

Actually, my turbo is VERY MUCH too small for my motor - it's off the map.

There are guys with larger turbos hitting 290whp at 6-7psi...On paper their turbo's are sized right...I do OWN them down low, however

What setup did you go with...I used to own a red 93 Probe GT and I wish protege's had that v6 as an option...The only pre-made kit when I had mine was the Knight engineering system from what I remember, but I heard that dude was shady at best...So I never went the turbo route...I was either going to buy a KL-ZE and pretty much restore the whole car, or buy a new car...in the end I just bought a P5...

 

[Darin]

i'm still waiting for darin to tell me what power my mods will give

That's dumb. Go to a freakin dyno.


/me looks into his crystal ball -


Your mods will give your car 17whp.


:-/

 

[Darin]

What setup did you go with...I used to own a red 93 Probe GT and I wish protege's had that v6 as an option...The only pre-made kit when I had mine was the Knight engineering system from what I remember, but I heard that dude was shady at best...So I never went the turbo route...I was either going to buy a KL-ZE and pretty much restore the whole car, or buy a new car...in the end I just bought a P5...

Knight is s***...nothing but junk-yard parts and bad welds.

wanna buy my car?

It's a completely custom system, built on the car by www.turbotechnologyinc.com in Tacoma, WA. Last I heard they charge $5500 to build the system on cars. I'd sell you my whole car, and pay half shipping for that!