Pistons

Wow, there's so much misinformation in this thread, i don't know where to begin.

In terms of compression ratio, running a forged motor for turbo use with a stock compression ratio is more or less a waste of time. The first motor I built for my personal car (about 8 years ago) used stock compression pistons. Once I started making decent power, I would start running into issues with knock due to the CR. A year later, I rebuilt the motor with 8.5:1 pistons and ultimately made much more power with no knock.

If you're going to spend the coin to build your motor, why restrict yourself to low boost by having a high CR? It's simply counterintuitive. Learn from my mistake 8 years ago.

Moreover, there are no real drawbacks to running a slightly lower CR. You won't be able to feel a difference in off boost power, and you'll make more power under boost since you'll be able to run more boost an hotter timing. What's not to love?

As for 4032 vs 2618 Aluminum pistons (low silicon vs high silicon), the high silicon pistons actually have a lower rate of thermal expansion by about 15%. So to the poster that said that the high silicon pistons expand more, that's the opposite of the truth. The advantage of of high silicon 4032 is that you can run tighter piston to wall clearances and have less piston slap. The disadvantage is that the pistons aren't quite as strong as 2618. That said, CP, Arias, and Wiseco all use 2618 low silicon pistons.

It's true that Maxx Mazda melted some arias pistons. But it was not the fault of the piston...any piston would have melted in his case. He will be the first to tell you that he had his standalone set up wrong, the ignition timing was way off, and it caused the piston to melt. I don't care if your pistons are made by the hand of God, if they are aluminum, they will melt if your tuning setup is wrong.

Secondly, of the three brands mentioned, Wiseco has the most issues when it comes to structural integrity and production tolerances, piston noise, etc.

In the FS motor, I have experience with JE/SRP, CP, Wiseco, and ARIAS pistons. The only brands I would even bother with would be ARIAS and CP, as they are both great pistons.

Personally I prefer the ARIAS pistons since we actually have our own custom design for the pistons, and have perfected the piston over the years. One look at any of the work that I've done will show you what an anal bastard I am, and I've tweaked the hell out of the design of these pistons over the years. From the valve reliefs, to the ring package, to the wire locks, to the custom length wrist pins, as well as the largest oil squirter clearance available in any piston for the FS.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has built more forged FS motors than myself, and we have a virtually flawless track record with our engines. I have been building FS engines since 2003 with outstanding results. We use the best quality stuff we can get our hands on. If ARIAS pistons (and Pauter rods) weren't outstanding, I wouldn't dare use them in my engines - I would simply start using the better product if one existed.

Thanks for posting with your knowledge, we needed someone that actually does this for a living to chime it.

I was the person that posted about the silicon, but you misread my post because I basically said the same thing you did about the pistons and higher silicon content, just with less detail(because I don't know a huge amount about it). I used SRP pistons a long time ago in my 92 gsr, and they would slap all the way up till operating temp........it was a pain in the ass in the winter. Thanks for clearing it up, hopefully the OP will read this and get a better idea of what to do.

Im glad you posted what you knew about the Arias pistons because I just bought some for a hell of a price, but still apprehensive about using them. But then again you use them for many many many engine builds, so unless someone can disprove Arias( I have used them in a few DSMs and never had an issue at 25+psi on Gt30) as a reputable piston manufacturer.....Im gonna rock them.
 
I'm considering selling my MSP and get a 323F Sportive and build that so I'm contemplating which ones to get myself theese days.

I guess there are almost as many oppinions on pistons as there are built motors. I chose Wiseco when I built my engine because one of my stock pistons was blown (at stock boost level :() and I needed something that could be sent to me directly and the Wisecos are usually on the shelf. Looking back I probably should've gone for some CP or JE ones, but not every shop will ship to Europe and the Wisecos was just the easist to get on a short notice.

From what I heard the first Arias pistons had problems with oil squirter clearance but that was sorted out in the later ones, but the "new" Wisecos have a coating to make them more heat resistant to make the choice even harder. The Wisecos are supposedly lighter than Arias but a bit more brittle, still from what I heard the Wisecos are rated for up to 2,5 bar (35psi) if the A/F are correct. Please correct me if I'm wrong here!

I have heard good things about JE ones, what's wrong with those Kooldio.
 
I'm considering selling my MSP and get a 323F Sportive and build that so I'm contemplating which ones to get myself theese days.

I guess there are almost as many oppinions on pistons as there are built motors. I chose Wiseco when I built my engine because one of my stock pistons was blown (at stock boost level :() and I needed something that could be sent to me directly and the Wisecos are usually on the shelf. Looking back I probably should've gone for some CP or JE ones, but not every shop will ship to Europe and the Wisecos was just the easist to get on a short notice.

From what I heard the first Arias pistons had problems with oil squirter clearance but that was sorted out in the later ones, but the "new" Wisecos have a coating to make them more heat resistant to make the choice even harder. The Wisecos are supposedly lighter than Arias but a bit more brittle, still from what I heard the Wisecos are rated for up to 2,5 bar (35psi) if the A/F are correct. Please correct me if I'm wrong here!

I have heard good things about JE ones, what's wrong with those Kooldio.

remember that PSI is relative. a gt30r and a gt42(for instance) are going to make vastly different power at the same boost level.
 
remember that PSI is relative. a gt30r and a gt42(for instance) are going to make vastly different power at the same boost level.

I know that, bigger turbo equals more air mass and more power, which also require more from the engine internals, but smaller turbo with higher presure would be worse than producing the same amout of hp with more air mass and lower pressure, correct?? (or am I mistaken here)

Not what I was asking though... What is bad about JE pistons?
 
Thanks for posting with your knowledge, we needed someone that actually does this for a living to chime it.

My pleasure.

I was the person that posted about the silicon, but you misread my post because I basically said the same thing you did about the pistons and higher silicon content, just with less detail(because I don't know a huge amount about it). I used SRP pistons a long time ago in my 92 gsr, and they would slap all the way up till operating temp........it was a pain in the ass in the winter. Thanks for clearing it up, hopefully the OP will read this and get a better idea of what to do.

It seemed like you were saying that they expand and contract more instead of expand and contract less. I guess my point is that when it comes to piston slap, high silicon pistons will slap less than low silicon in a properly clearanced engine. Emphasis on that last part there. Shoot me a PM if you wanna chat about details.

Im glad you posted what you knew about the Arias pistons because I just bought some for a hell of a price, but still apprehensive about using them. But then again you use them for many many many engine builds, so unless someone can disprove Arias( I have used them in a few DSMs and never had an issue at 25+psi on Gt30) as a reputable piston manufacturer.....Im gonna rock them.

Yeah, you'll have no issues with them in a properly built car.

I see in your sig you're looking for long rods - a word of caution - long rods will not work with pistons that are not specifically set up for long rods, since the piston will be above the deck height. Be sure to get stock length rods for your pistons.
 
From what I heard the first Arias pistons had problems with oil squirter clearance but that was sorted out in the later ones,

That's not exactly true.

One person (who just happens to be a Wiseco pistons dealer) assembled a motor with an older set of Arias pistons. Since the squirters were not properly clearanced, he quickly ended up chopping off all of the squirters and began trashing the pistons. He blamed the pistons, and I defended them since I had already built a dozen engines with the exact same version of the piston with no issues. Since people generally only read headlines, they read that a motor built (by someone else) with my pistons lost oil squirters, and that was held against our pistons. So in a move to take ALL fear and worry away from the public in regards to the squirter issue, we redesigned the piston to have an extremely large notch for the oil squirter clerance - much larger than any other piston on the market. This way even if a caveman built a motor with these pistons, he couldn't mess up on the squirter clearance. :)

but the "new" Wisecos have a coating to make them more heat resistant to make the choice even harder. The Wisecos are supposedly lighter than Arias but a bit more brittle, still from what I heard the Wisecos are rated for up to 2,5 bar (35psi) if the A/F are correct. Please correct me if I'm wrong here!

I don't have weight specs in front of me for the Wisecos, but I can tell you that the ARIAS pistons are heavy duty.

In terms of coatings, we actually have several coatings available for the ARIAS pistons.

I have heard good things about JE ones, what's wrong with those Kooldio.

There are problems with the valve reliefs, they tend to be noisier, they are not notched for the oil squirters, etc etc.
 
My pleasure.



It seemed like you were saying that they expand and contract more instead of expand and contract less. I guess my point is that when it comes to piston slap, high silicon pistons will slap less than low silicon in a properly clearanced engine. Emphasis on that last part there. Shoot me a PM if you wanna chat about details.



Yeah, you'll have no issues with them in a properly built car.

I see in your sig you're looking for long rods - a word of caution - long rods will not work with pistons that are not specifically set up for long rods, since the piston will be above the deck height. Be sure to get stock length rods for your pistons.

Ok, I bought the pistons and rods together as a set, second hand.....so yeah I will check on that

Yeah I should have been more specific. I was stating that the high silicon pistons take longer to expand, but I have had SRP pistons that were in a block that slapped until the engine was warm.........probably due to improper cleareances like you said. Thanks for the clarification.
 
with stock pistons and upgraded k1 rods how much power could a setup like that handle? a guess anyone? or how many psi on the stock turb? im just curious
 
I believe it would handle alot greater than the stock rods.

Although if you were going to crack the engine open why not do the pistons while your at it?
 
STock turbo chokes out around 15 psi, leaving you with about 240whp roughly on a properly built motor. This figure is completely relative to the modifications you have already, and the tune that you go with.

The FS will probably take quite a beating, it has a forged crank(in the MSP and later model FS motors), couple that with Pauter Rods and Arias pistons and you can, in theory, make a ton of power. As you will find out, the main issue is the tranny will puss out on you way before you max a properly built motor.
 
I'd trust Danas opinion when it comes to protege stuff. Hes first hand experience and that's priceless. I may get my next built bottom end from him. We will see. I do know of people running weisco pistons with good results tho.
 
the only reason i would just do rods is a money thing. i can almost afford to buy forged rods and pay the 500 bucks to have my engine completely rebuilt then put it back in myself and possibly run the stock tubro at around 15 psi or a 28rs around 10-15psi. it was just a thought on a cheap way to make decent numbers (around 250whp) for my daily driver. idk
 
iirc the wrist pin size and style is different between the OEM pistons and aftermarket rods. So you would have to add $$ for machine work on the stock pistons or save up for aftermarket.
 
hmm..i guess im gona go with wiseco then..thats so dumb tho so basically your saying if u buy upgraded pistons u need rods or if u buy upgraded rods then u need upgraded pistons. i mean i know its better to do both obv but itd be nice if u at least had the option to mate upgraded rods w the stock pistons and vis/versa..oh welll
 
if you want to use forged rod's w/ stock pistons you have to machine the piston to accept a free floating wrist pin.
 
Im located in Sydney Australia.

I own a U.S. equivalent p5 mp3 that I have fitted a full msp turbo kit to with aftermarket ems and plug and play 440cc injectors from a factory wrx and 626 fs-de non-vics plenum.

running 10psi with really retarded timing around 9 degrees of WOT and 11-12 AFR making 115kw at the wheels

looking into getting my engine rebuilt with arias pistons and pauter rods. any ideas on shipping costs for bits?
 

New Threads and Articles

Back