Piggyback installed

[MPNick]

Re: Re: Piggyback installed

if i were a full enthusist like this to tune my own sheit and splice and stuff...saving 1k would be worth it...but id much rather spend 2k on the microtech, already get bigger injectors, not splice, and have premade maps and customer service. hopefully that thing works out good for you man! im not hating on it, its just that much work is not my bag...

good job!

I could see how it sucks. He can now dial in his air fuel ratio as he needs to. He can retard the timing as he needs. His car starts and runs like stock until he hits boost, then the air fuel is perfect. All of the stock things still work because the stock computer is still installed. Installed in a few hours and tuned it right in. He only saved around $1,000.00 by not going with a standalone system.

Yes, life must suck now for him.



Thanks again


Later.....Nick

 

[joka1]

hey mpnick,
where can i get the software to tune my piggyback?

 

[Kooldino]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Piggyback installed

already had a tach installed so that dont matter...my stock tach got ****** when i put gauge overlays on

and your speedometer?

 

[Kooldino]

i'll be installing mine in a week or 2......... what software are you using to tune yours with?

I'm actually using really old software, because the new stuff doesn't work.

 

[Kooldino]

Isn't that where you adjust the percentage of the values in the map at that giving load. Nevermind, you did say you have the stock meter on didn't ya. Sorry, good stuff, have fun and keep us posted on how she works for ya.

For YOU, yes, that's what gets the values of your big MAF. On mine, it reads the MAP instead.

 

[MPNick]

hey mpnick,
where can i get the software to tune my piggyback?

Check the files that I sent you. You should have it. If not e-mail me.

mp23cc@aol.com

Thanks again



Later.................Nick

 

[MPNick]

For YOU, yes, that's what gets the values of your big MAF. On mine, it reads the MAP instead.

You are very limited when useing the MAP.

You should install it to your MAF.


Thanks again


Later..............Nick

 

[Kooldino]

You are very limited when useing the MAP.

You should install it to your MAF.


Thanks again


Later..............Nick

In what way am i limited?

 

[PaulMP3]

MPNICK can you answer this?????


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MPNick
You are very limited when useing the MAP.

You should install it to your MAF.


Thanks again


Later..............Nick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



In what way am i limited?

 

[perfworks]

MPNICK can you answer this?????


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MPNick
You are very limited when useing the MAP.

You should install it to your MAF.


Thanks again


Later..............Nick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



In what way am i limited?

Yeah im waiting for this too! I'd like to know how you are going to be limited. Especially when he clamps the MAF voltage to prevent boost/fuel cut then doesnt have a load reference.

 

[Little Beavis]

Yeah im waiting for this too! I'd like to know how you are going to be limited. Especially when he clamps the MAF voltage to prevent boost/fuel cut then doesnt have a load reference.

Now, now. . .if you use a bigger MAF, you can still read what you need to know and clamp to the ECU and make up the difference with the additional injectors. . .can you not?

Plus isn't there a difference between 7 psi at 100C and 7 psi at 80C, how does the map take care of that? (How does anyone take care of that actually?) I'm talking about the performance difference of different turbos. . .you would need to know that information to be "good" wouldn't you?

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

 

[Keith@FP]

Plus isn't there a difference between 7 psi at 100C and 7 psi at 80C, how does the map take care of that? (How does anyone take care of that actually?)

That's what intake air temperature sensors are for. MAP and MAF-based systems both have advantages. That's why both still exist.

Keith

 

[perfworks]

Now, now. . .if you use a bigger MAF, you can still read what you need to know and clamp to the ECU and make up the difference with the additional injectors. . .can you not?

Plus isn't there a difference between 7 psi at 100C and 7 psi at 80C, how does the map take care of that? (How does anyone take care of that actually?) I'm talking about the performance difference of different turbos. . .you would need to know that information to be "good" wouldn't you?

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

Beav how does the MAF know the difference bud?
As kieth said there are many advantages and disadvantages to both systems. What dino is saying is that he is using both to work together. With the proper map sensor in the AMP column he can do boost retard and fueling much more efficiently. WHY? because when you clamp the MAF voltage where is your "AMP" load reference for boost retard and extra injector fueling. All manual. Of course you COULD guess.

 

[PaulMP3]

perf. mine explaining to me what the AMP column represent

 

[perfworks]

perf. mine explaining to me what the AMP column represent

Absolute Manifold Pressure.
"load" factor. The more load the more the the bar goes up. When under boost your "boost" load will begin at a certain point . At that point you can arrange your values to act as a "switch" for the injectors. That will also allow the multiplication of the values inserted in the table by the load column and that will give you the IDC (injector duty cycle) for your fuel enrichment. IF nick would realease the application notes and such this would help people understand alot more about his product. Mpnick uses the MAF signal for that column instead. He uses that to infer load based on airflow. The problem with that is the stock ecu cant see more than 5.0 volts. Nevermind the fact that he is MANIPULATING that same parameter.The clamping of the MAF voltage will cause the resolution for the MAF to decrease also. But there are ways around this too. It just takes time to tune it out.

 

[Little Beavis]

Mpnick uses the MAF signal for that column instead. He uses that to infer load based on airflow. The problem with that is the stock ecu cant see more than 5.0 volts. Nevermind the fact that he is MANIPULATING that same parameter.The clamping of the MAF voltage will cause the resolution for the MAF to decrease also. But there are ways around this too. It just takes time to tune it out.

Wouldn't you take your readings on the voltage before it is clamped? Thus you would actually have an idea of what is going into the engine. The "clamp" voltage has nothing to do with it as far as I can see, but yet we keep talking about the clamp voltage. Who the F cares! If you can measure the air going in via the MAF or the MAP (and I know about the IAT, but my concern is that very few people have the IAT in the piping after the turbo), and if the IAT isn't after the turbo, then who knows what temp your have and thus how can you run correctly. Now if you put the IAT in the piping after the turbo and near the MAF you'd get a better reading, right? And if you can do that, the MAF CAN AND WILL be able to tell you load since it tells what is going into the engine (voltage clamp be damned, because that is the output of the MPI_Tuner, not the input). Right or am I off base. I don't KNOW this system, it just seems as though that is how it works.

 

[perfworks]

Wouldn't you take your readings on the voltage before it is clamped? Thus you would actually have an idea of what is going into the engine. The "clamp" voltage has nothing to do with it as far as I can see, but yet we keep talking about the clamp voltage. Who the F cares! If you can measure the air going in via the MAF or the MAP (and I know about the IAT, but my concern is that very few people have the IAT in the piping after the turbo), and if the IAT isn't after the turbo, then who knows what temp your have and thus how can you run correctly. Now if you put the IAT in the piping after the turbo and near the MAF you'd get a better reading, right? And if you can do that, the MAF CAN AND WILL be able to tell you load since it tells what is going into the engine (voltage clamp be damned, because that is the output of the MPI_Tuner, not the input). Right or am I off base. I don't KNOW this system, it just seems as though that is how it works.

You are correct to a degree. When using the stock MAF this would be the case. BUT you are not. You are using a MAF that isnt for the vehicle. It is a generic MAF that NEEDS the piggyback for calibration. If the sampling area and voltage INPUT is not the on the same scale then how are you going to know what load level you are at? Same as dealing with the map. Depending on whether is is 1bar 2 bar etc.
Try putting the larger MAF on your car and no piggy. Then turn the key and let me know what she does.
Note i have always been of fan of MAF if tuned propery.
But we are talking about using the two units in conjunction with each other. Please dont forget that the original question was posed to MPNICK NOT ME. He must tell us why the map is limited.

 

[Kooldino]

You are correct to a degree. When using the stock MAF this would be the case. BUT you are not. You are using a MAF that isnt for the vehicle. It is a generic MAF that NEEDS the piggyback for calibration. If the sampling area and voltage INPUT is not the on the same scale then how are you going to know what load level you are at? Same as dealing with the map. Depending on whether is is 1bar 2 bar etc.
Try putting the larger MAF on your car and no piggy. Then turn the key and let me know what she does.
Note i have always been of fan of MAF if tuned propery.
But we are talking about using the two units in conjunction with each other. Please dont forget that the original question was posed to MPNICK NOT ME. He must tell us why the map is limited.

Right, but once the new MAF is tuned, your right back where Beavis is asking...

PS - i'm @ 8psi now.

 

[Little Beavis]

Right, but once the new MAF is tuned, your right back where Beavis is asking...

PS - i'm @ 8psi now.

Cool. ..8 psi. . .no lean spots? Works like a champ?

So, what about my question on determining load based upon the MAF. You can do it right? Why wouldn't you be able to do this. Obviously given the ideal gas law, you have a known pressure, volume, and temperature. . .then you know how much air is coming in, which means you know how much fuel to add. . .and you know THE LOAD. I don't see how it can't work. Please explain for my benefit if not for anyone else.

 

[joka1]

mine too, sorry i just wanted to keep updated on this thread since i have the piggy back waiting for install!