Good info here everyone!! Except for all the pointless fighting. I was looking into getting a new brake package, but now I'm reconsidering it. I think I'll just stick with the Hawk pads and SS lines.
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Note: Cross-drilling nor slotting provide any benefits
- Thread starter charles
- Start date
Yes, I already did know that the discs are carbon fiber but the point was, which you missed, that the holes in the disc are there for a reason and not just for show. In this case, especially to dissipate heat.AlbinoMuntjac said:SNike05- Yeah, the Mercedes has crossdrilled rotors. It's also a purpose-built racecar that they needed to homoligate. And if you had taken 2 seconds to look even further into it, you would have found out that they have carbon fiber rotors, not steel or aluminum. Carbon fiber isn't metal, so yeah, it will heat up, but it's not going to warp and it's going to take a lot more heat to crack or warp them compared to metal ones. Nice try chief.
I am failing to understand how slotted rotors clean the pad.
Is the rotor raised slightly where it's slotted?
If it's not then it's the same as drilled.
on another note, here is my formula for the best braking for out cars
1.OEM rotors
2.Hawk pads
3.SS brake lines
4.better tires
Is the rotor raised slightly where it's slotted?
If it's not then it's the same as drilled.
on another note, here is my formula for the best braking for out cars
1.OEM rotors
2.Hawk pads
3.SS brake lines
4.better tires
Here's my problem...on OEM pads I have warped the rotors on my MSP...TWICE!!! In less than 20k miles! ARGH!!!! Got them replaced before...but I think the wear parts replacement on the warranty is up...now I'm kinda stuck. Nobody makes a less expensive rotor for the MSPs. KVR makes some, but their WICKED freakin expensive...+500$ for a full set front and rear.jared said:I am failing to understand how slotted rotors clean the pad.
Is the rotor raised slightly where it's slotted?
If it's not then it's the same as drilled.
on another note, here is my formula for the best braking for out cars
1.OEM rotors
2.Hawk pads
3.SS brake lines
4.better tires
Also...how do the SS brake lines help and where did you get them?
Do you wash your car when it's warm and spray the rotors? that can warp them.servoeyes said:Here's my problem...on OEM pads I have warped the rotors on my MSP...TWICE!!! In less than 20k miles! ARGH!!!! Got them replaced before...but I think the wear parts replacement on the warranty is up...now I'm kinda stuck. Nobody makes a less expensive rotor for the MSPs. KVR makes some, but their WICKED freakin expensive...+500$ for a full set front and rear.
Also...how do the SS brake lines help and where did you get them?
stock rubber brake lines are flimsy and will expand when the fluid heats up causing fade. SS lines don't do this and give a much better feels. I have no idea where to get them for Proteges.
Listen to this guy he know exactly what he's talking about. And to answer your question about rotors. You can find solid and vented plain rotors by brembo on ebayI've seen them for quite a long time.jared said:I am failing to understand how slotted rotors clean the pad.
Is the rotor raised slightly where it's slotted?
If it's not then it's the same as drilled.
on another note, here is my formula for the best braking for out cars
1.OEM rotors
2.Hawk pads
3.SS brake lines
4.better tires
But not for the MSP, I think...Brembo doesn't list anything for the MSP, yet. The KVRs are the only ones I've found...and Corksport actually has the best price on them.melicha8 said:Listen to this guy he know exactly what he's talking about. And to answer your question about rotors. You can find solid and vented plain rotors by brembo on ebayI've seen them for quite a long time.
RyanJayG said:no big deal... people just need to chill on this topic... besides on the street (where glazing and brake fade aren't a problem... EVER) even larger brakes will not stop you faster... out tires are the weakest link.
Well, not with the protege's. But I melted a few pads on my Crown Vic. The rotors were also blue and had lots of cracks. Brake fade is damn scary.
They have the same brake set up as the MP3 and P5servoeyes said:But not for the MSP, I think...Brembo doesn't list anything for the MSP, yet. The KVRs are the only ones I've found...and Corksport actually has the best price on them.
well, that statement was aimed at out 2900lb protege's with stock brakes sizes... not a 4500lb monsterMike R said:Well, not with the protege's. But I melted a few pads on my Crown Vic. The rotors were also blue and had lots of cracks. Brake fade is damn scary.
Its been said on here before but I will repeat... TIRES!!!mrpopnfresh said:Good info here everyone!! Except for all the pointless fighting. I was looking into getting a new brake package, but now I'm reconsidering it. I think I'll just stick with the Hawk pads and SS lines.
If you can lock your stock brakes (activate the ABS, whatever) and have no fade (aren't racing) the only thing is STICKIER TIRES!!! They are what provides the coefficient of friction to the road, if you can overpower that friction with stock breaks all you will do with more powerful ones is lock 'em faster. The lines could help with pedal feel though FWIW.
Gro Harlem
Member
wow, some people actually are learning something without fighting!! Xdrilled and slotted rotors DO NOT help braking!!! Simple as that. If you consider the fact that they dissipate heat quicker a braking increase, you need to check your head. There is a difference. Sure, they DO dissipate heat better, but they do not help decrease stopping distance.
I highly doubt most people here drive their cars hard enough to require these rotors. Even if you autocross, you would rarely bring your rotors to such high temperatures to cause the brakes to fade since the speeds are under 60mph (i'm sure some autox courses might be long enough to warrant xdrilled but most don't).
And those posting "well why do racecars use them"....think for one second. Why the hell would race cars use BLANK rotors when they can use slotted or x-drilled which have been proven to dissipate heat? the designers KNOW they are going to be driving the piss out of the cars, and slacking on the rotors is a pretty stuipd way to save money especially seeing how it doesn't take much more $$$ to drill or slot the rotors to begin with! Ask one of these engineers why they use X-drilled, and they won't tell you its because "for better braking power". They are simply to reduce brake fade.
The only real reason most of the people on this forum buy them is for aesthetic purposes. Either that or they were suckered into believing that they were increasing their braking power.
I highly doubt most people here drive their cars hard enough to require these rotors. Even if you autocross, you would rarely bring your rotors to such high temperatures to cause the brakes to fade since the speeds are under 60mph (i'm sure some autox courses might be long enough to warrant xdrilled but most don't).
And those posting "well why do racecars use them"....think for one second. Why the hell would race cars use BLANK rotors when they can use slotted or x-drilled which have been proven to dissipate heat? the designers KNOW they are going to be driving the piss out of the cars, and slacking on the rotors is a pretty stuipd way to save money especially seeing how it doesn't take much more $$$ to drill or slot the rotors to begin with! Ask one of these engineers why they use X-drilled, and they won't tell you its because "for better braking power". They are simply to reduce brake fade.
The only real reason most of the people on this forum buy them is for aesthetic purposes. Either that or they were suckered into believing that they were increasing their braking power.
Oy ve people. How hard is this. It has been discussed on here a million times. X-drilled rotors do not initially help shorten braking distances. They reduce fade. Fade is produced when rotor temperatures rise due to repeated hard hard braking with little time in between to allow the rotors to cool like on a road course or to a certain extent auto-X. Cross drilling creates a greater surface area without requiring the rotor size to be dramatically increased. (The same reason amplifiers and transformers have fins on them) This means that a cross drilled rotor will be able to cool more quickly than a non cross drilled rotor of the same size. This is an obvious advantage in forms of racing on road tracks and smaller circle tracks. That is where you will find them used on professional race cars.
However as has been stated many times X-drilled rotors suffer from the fact that they posses less structural integrity and do not expell hot gases any better than standard vented rotors. Thus the evolution of slotted rotors. These are much less likely to crack and expell gasses very efficently. However, they do not create the greater surface area that cross drilled rotors do. So, generaly in forms of professional racing where slotted rotors are used, the rotors are larger to increase surface area.
Of course slotted rotors actually only show advantages in extreme situations when the rotors are hot enough to produce large volumes of gas. Thus they are not the ideal choice for the street.
However, when you boil it down cross drilled rotors, slotted rotors, and racing brake pad compounds have little to no advantage for most drivers on the street. In fact using slotted rotors with the wrong pad compound may actually decrease the braking distance over stock.
In other words as many have said all of these products on most drivers street cars are for a bling factor. I should know. I have the KVR/Cork Sport cross drilled rotors. I make no bones about it. They are for show. I got a good price on them and am completely satisfied with them. I also completely believe if SCC, MT, or some other car mag took my car out and tested its braking performance vs. a stock MSP after repeated 60 to 0 tests, my car would win. Would it win by a huge margin? No. Does that bother me? No. I know why I got my rotors and I also know there is also an actual performance advantage to them. However, I got mine for the bling. Just as anyone has the right to do.
Do the research and buy what you want. By all means don't let some self proclaimed expert on the matter (myself included) be the factor that influences your decision. Get online or buy a mag. and read the head to head tests of stock cars vs. cars modded with the product you are considering and then decide if it's worth your money to purchase it.
However as has been stated many times X-drilled rotors suffer from the fact that they posses less structural integrity and do not expell hot gases any better than standard vented rotors. Thus the evolution of slotted rotors. These are much less likely to crack and expell gasses very efficently. However, they do not create the greater surface area that cross drilled rotors do. So, generaly in forms of professional racing where slotted rotors are used, the rotors are larger to increase surface area.
Of course slotted rotors actually only show advantages in extreme situations when the rotors are hot enough to produce large volumes of gas. Thus they are not the ideal choice for the street.
However, when you boil it down cross drilled rotors, slotted rotors, and racing brake pad compounds have little to no advantage for most drivers on the street. In fact using slotted rotors with the wrong pad compound may actually decrease the braking distance over stock.
In other words as many have said all of these products on most drivers street cars are for a bling factor. I should know. I have the KVR/Cork Sport cross drilled rotors. I make no bones about it. They are for show. I got a good price on them and am completely satisfied with them. I also completely believe if SCC, MT, or some other car mag took my car out and tested its braking performance vs. a stock MSP after repeated 60 to 0 tests, my car would win. Would it win by a huge margin? No. Does that bother me? No. I know why I got my rotors and I also know there is also an actual performance advantage to them. However, I got mine for the bling. Just as anyone has the right to do.
Do the research and buy what you want. By all means don't let some self proclaimed expert on the matter (myself included) be the factor that influences your decision. Get online or buy a mag. and read the head to head tests of stock cars vs. cars modded with the product you are considering and then decide if it's worth your money to purchase it.
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Um, it has been mentioned, but mass soaks up the heat, suface area dissapates the heat.
Cross-drilled rotors can't soak up as much heat as a standard rotor, and so dissapate what little heat the get becuase of the added surface area. They also help in wet braking.
But where does all that extra heat go when the rotos can't take it?
Into the other brake components....That is why very few race teams actually use cross-drilled rotors on race applications.
Cross-drilled rotors can't soak up as much heat as a standard rotor, and so dissapate what little heat the get becuase of the added surface area. They also help in wet braking.
But where does all that extra heat go when the rotos can't take it?
Into the other brake components....That is why very few race teams actually use cross-drilled rotors on race applications.
CrazyCaker
Member
- :
- '10 Stang GT / '06 Mazda5 GT
servoeyes said:Nope...the rotors have only warped in the winter, when I've got my snows on. My ABS is terrible...seems like hard braking (especially in the winter) will still warp the rotors. When I wash my car, I wash it in the shade.
Over tightening your lugs will cause your rotors to warp very quickly. When you put your winters on how tight are you making the lugs? Use a torque.
Good grief. anyone hear of wilwood brakes? If you actually want superior cooling, vented will do this. On the track is where this type of brake is essential. Brake fade will really be encountered on continous laps on a track with hard braking. Will they help? Yes, depending on what you are doing. Do they look tight? Hell yes. Oh, and by the way, wilwood is one of the highly respected brake manufacturers for race brakes for those of you not familiar.
http://www.wilwood.com/products/rotors/uld32/index.asp
"Caution on drilled rotors: There is a common mis-perception that rotors are drilled to improve cooling. The reduced mass of a drilled rotor will dissipate its retained heat quicker, but it also builds up heat at a much faster rate. The decision to use drilled rotors should be solely based on the merits of the lower rotating and unsprung weight, and not for improved cooling. It is not wise to use drilled rotors in sustained high heat on hard braking tracks unless the team budget affords a high frequency of rotor and brake pad replacement."
12.19" vented iron rotors add stopping power and cooling capacity over smaller diameter OE rotors. All Wilwood rotors are manufactured from premium grade, long grain carbon iron to provide long wear with high thermal stability and resistance to distortion. The superior heat absorption and dissipation qualities of a vented iron rotor are essential to preventing heat fade and realizing the longest service life from the pads and rotors. Every kit in this group includes a 12.19" diameter SRP or HP series rotor. For custom, show, and high performance sport driving, SRP rotor kits offer the high-tech look and improved performance of a directional cross-drill and face slot pattern. In addition to their aesthetic appeal, the venting and cleaning action of the holes and slots will reduce pad glaze, dissipate surface heat, and minimize irregular pad build-up on the rotor faces. The results are smoother engagement with improved consistency and response at the pedal. SRP rotors are treated with a silver zinc wash to reduce corrosion on the areas of the rotor not kept clean by pad contact. HP rotor kits include close tolerance machined smooth faced rotors. The additional mass of the HP rotor extends service life on heavier competition vehicles and severe duty applications subject to higher sustained operating temperatures.
http://www.wilwood.com/products/rotors/uld32/index.asp
"Caution on drilled rotors: There is a common mis-perception that rotors are drilled to improve cooling. The reduced mass of a drilled rotor will dissipate its retained heat quicker, but it also builds up heat at a much faster rate. The decision to use drilled rotors should be solely based on the merits of the lower rotating and unsprung weight, and not for improved cooling. It is not wise to use drilled rotors in sustained high heat on hard braking tracks unless the team budget affords a high frequency of rotor and brake pad replacement."
12.19" vented iron rotors add stopping power and cooling capacity over smaller diameter OE rotors. All Wilwood rotors are manufactured from premium grade, long grain carbon iron to provide long wear with high thermal stability and resistance to distortion. The superior heat absorption and dissipation qualities of a vented iron rotor are essential to preventing heat fade and realizing the longest service life from the pads and rotors. Every kit in this group includes a 12.19" diameter SRP or HP series rotor. For custom, show, and high performance sport driving, SRP rotor kits offer the high-tech look and improved performance of a directional cross-drill and face slot pattern. In addition to their aesthetic appeal, the venting and cleaning action of the holes and slots will reduce pad glaze, dissipate surface heat, and minimize irregular pad build-up on the rotor faces. The results are smoother engagement with improved consistency and response at the pedal. SRP rotors are treated with a silver zinc wash to reduce corrosion on the areas of the rotor not kept clean by pad contact. HP rotor kits include close tolerance machined smooth faced rotors. The additional mass of the HP rotor extends service life on heavier competition vehicles and severe duty applications subject to higher sustained operating temperatures.
Just got back from the dealership...had to get rotors resurf'd and the front pads replaced. The pads were actually what caused the warping. The vent in the pad was full of poopoo...no venting at all. So under emergency braking I would up warping the rotor. As for torque...I'm honestly now sure how tight to torque the lugs. I hand tighten them generally, with one hand and the shorty bar that came with the car.CrazyCaker said:Over tightening your lugs will cause your rotors to warp very quickly. When you put your winters on how tight are you making the lugs? Use a torque.
--edit--
any idea if the pads on the MSP are the same as the pads on the other Pros? I'd love to get some hawks of green stuffs or something that's not gonna warp the OEM rotors.
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servoeyes said:Just got back from the dealership...had to get rotors resurf'd and the front pads replaced. The pads were actually what caused the warping. The vent in the pad was full of poopoo...no venting at all. So under emergency braking I would up warping the rotor. As for torque...I'm honestly now sure how tight to torque the lugs. I hand tighten them generally, with one hand and the shorty bar that came with the car.
--edit--
any idea if the pads on the MSP are the same as the pads on the other Pros? I'd love to get some hawks of green stuffs or something that's not gonna warp the OEM rotors.
Who was pooping on your brake pads??
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