Nitrous + Auto = ???
- Thread starter z585
- Start date
DeathKnight
Member
I would say if there's a problem it would come between shifts. With the MTX there's a way to control when it sprays directly with how much fuel is being dumped. I'm not familiar with the programming for the P5 ATXs, but if between shifts it cuts or minimizes fuel flow, you could breifly run into a lean condidtion. And running lean with N2O, we all know is very bad.
Can anyone elaborate on this situation with info on these ATXs?
Can anyone elaborate on this situation with info on these ATXs?
Thanks for all the post so far. I am not familar with the program you are talking about??
I have never put nitrous on a auto, but would think that when the nitrous kicks in that the trans would shift into overdrive?? Correct me if I am wrong. But again I would not be using over 50 shots.
Does anyone think I would need any extra gauges to watch the trans, I don't even know if they have such things. But what kind of gauges would yall recommend?? Thanks for the Help..
Josh
I have never put nitrous on a auto, but would think that when the nitrous kicks in that the trans would shift into overdrive?? Correct me if I am wrong. But again I would not be using over 50 shots.
Does anyone think I would need any extra gauges to watch the trans, I don't even know if they have such things. But what kind of gauges would yall recommend?? Thanks for the Help..
Josh
z585 said:
Your transmission would downshift, but not into overdrive. It would react just like it does now when you go WOT (only when moving, not from a standing start, it starts in the lowest gear anyway).
You should be able to run between 50-75hp with ease. There a couple here using that much.
You don't need any other gauges than a nitrous bottle pressure gauge. A/F gauges with the stock o2 sensor are pretty much useless at WOT where you'll be using your nitrous system.
For added durability, I would add a transmission cooler. It will be a benefit without nitrous anyway.
My suggestion is to buy a kit, bottle heater, nitrous pressure gauge. Nitrous Express offers the most complete kit, if you purchase a NX EFI kit with the GenX upgrade, which includes all the things you need.
About using it with an automatic -
Turn on your bottle heater, wait 15-20min, arm the system, find a clear road to use, stop, powerbrake your car to build the RPMs up, hit WOT and hold on... Don't worry about shifting and getting out of it on nitrous, just keep you foot in it and let the tranny do all the work. You'll get your best 60ft times this way.
- :
- ‘19 CX-5 GTR Tu
For the MP3's i would say yes...they are running an advanced timing to give them that extra 10hp....
But for our Pro5's i would say NO....Unless u decide u want to go w/ a 75 shot or larger!
Also
They have invented a switch that will only permit N20 to shoot between a certain window...such as 3000rpm to 5000rpms...but i don't believe it's necessary w/ a 50 shot or lower!
- :
- 03' Silverado, 03' P5
dj4monie said:
Just a few things to add to what was posted above.
First off, more than a dry 50 shot would undoubtedly cause damage to the P5 Engine... Ask LinuxRacer, he'll tell ya;.
I would start with a 35 shot jetting, just to make sure you know what you're doing. I ran a 75 shot in my truck for 3 years until going to a 150, then 250 wet shot.
Secondly, About the downshifting... with most kits you're supplied with a crude window switch as it is. It would mount on the throttle boddy, and only allow the N20 to activate at a WOT condition (this would make the transmission downshift anyways, so nothing new to do or remember in that regard.) My dry kit included a throttle body plate with that switch already included, I am assuming they still do.
Third, the gauges I would definitely recommend are N20 Temp, and N20 Pressure... The Air/fuel is good to have, but can get sort of screwy. There are some kits that replace the 02 sensor too that should be pretty good. I think Jetchip.com has them, probably not for the P5 yet though.
Fourth, Transmission cooler?? Definitely...
Fifth, the application of the N20... This would probably be a little different than the way I do it, since my truck has so much more torque. I can't engage from a stop, as I would probably destroy both back tires in about a second. I would recommend launching as dj described, but not hitting the N20 until the middle of 2nd gear. Since you have a factory stall torque converter, it would probably give you a shitload of wheel hop anyways. It would be a whole lot less stress on the Tranny mounts and engine if you had a little momentum on your side too. At least with my 5-speed, 1st gear is really damn short anyways. When you are shooting, put the gear selector in Drive. It would probably never shift into OD, but it would just be safer that way. I imagine a 3rd to 4th gear shift would be bad with all that extra torque, and the fact that the ratio's are so far apart.
Also, remember that you need to change your spark plugs every three bottles (At least I was supposed to according to my first kit, 4 years ago..
) Colder plugs would be a good idea like acid said as well.acidbbg said:
I mean, trying to read your Air/Fuel Ratio based on an meter connected to your OEM o2 sensor. ALL cars when going WOT ignore the o2 sensor for a preset set of tables for ignition and fuel. That's why it's not that great to tune a car for WOT with one of those Autometer type gauges.
With nitrous you learn how to read your plugs. They should be a very light tan color on the electro and the ground strap. All nitrous kits come rich. Even running your nitrous system at 1100psi of bottle pressure just leans it out a little bit.
For 50hp, you don't need colder range plugs unless Mazdas use a "hot" plug to start with. Just change the gap to .035.
Define "blown" engines. Are we talking burned pistons, valves and the like or we talking bent rods and I'm only talking about Mazdas here. At 75hp, you're producing about as much power as the turbocharged Mazdaspeed is making and just as much torque and they don't seem to be suffering from engine damage.
Too many people just stick a nitrous kit on a car without really knowning what's going on. If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me direct.
I have no personal stake in how cars run on nitrous, I would just like to see car's run there best on the bottle to prove to people that nitrous is just as safe as any other mod you do. In fact it's easier to deal with because you only use it at WOT.
On every other 1.8-2.0L engine 50-75hp without progressive control is plenty safe. If something happen it's usually user/installer error.
As for the MP3, my Neon R/T uses 91 octane fuel and I can run 50-75hp shot without increasing octane one idoda. So there goes your suggestion of timing retard out the windows. NOS' tuning suggestions are OUTDATED and don't apply to other systems on the market. It even tells you that CLEARLY on the instructions that comes with NX kits.
Thanks for all the posts!!
Any pref of brand, I am looking at a NX and a NOS Kit, both are dry? But I'm for sure taking the advice of starting out with a 35 shot. Also I'm looking into a trans cooler, I definetly want to do this right!! Even if the kit has to sit there till I get all the parts. I was one of those that found out the hard way to be patient and do it right the first time.
This is kinda cool I don't know of anyone else with a auto p5 with nitrous??????
But as far as take off would a auto be faster on nitrous than a manual on nitrous???? Just a thought..
Thanks again and I'll keep yall posted and prob some pics.
Let me know if anything else comes to mind.
Josh
Any pref of brand, I am looking at a NX and a NOS Kit, both are dry? But I'm for sure taking the advice of starting out with a 35 shot. Also I'm looking into a trans cooler, I definetly want to do this right!! Even if the kit has to sit there till I get all the parts. I was one of those that found out the hard way to be patient and do it right the first time.
This is kinda cool I don't know of anyone else with a auto p5 with nitrous??????
But as far as take off would a auto be faster on nitrous than a manual on nitrous???? Just a thought..
Thanks again and I'll keep yall posted and prob some pics.
Let me know if anything else comes to mind.
Josh
- :
- ‘19 CX-5 GTR Tu
Here is a thread to another protege forum...this guy as an auto also!
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=170371#post170371
http://www.protegeclub.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=170371#post170371
A tranny cooler is a good idea, period.
Launching under nitrous with a automatic will NOT cause wheelhop. The power comes on WAY smoother with an auto over a stick. Trust me. Manuel's Neon just squats and goes... No drama.
In fact most automatic cars get a bigger boost in performance over a manual car overall. The reason why automatic cars are so slow in the 1/4 mile is mainly because of poor 60ft times. Usually in the 2.6 or worst area. That causes high ET's and maybe only 3-4mph slower trap speed than a stick car. Also Autos weight more because of the valvebody and torque converter.
Second, don't worry about your transmission with such a small increase in power and torque. Under prolong use it might be an issue but on avg you'll only use the nitrous maybe 5-6 times a week and almost never back to back to back, so just install it and run with it.
Don't worry about the WOT microswitch. They hardly ever fail.
Here I'll make it simple -
Buy a NX kit with GenX upgrade and buy a tranny cooler ( I have the best prices on NX products).
If you have any money left over, find a shop that will mandrel bend or weld up mandrel bends and get at least a 2.25 exhaust made with high-flow straight-though muffler. You can add a resonator like preforated core glasspack mid way between the cat and the muffler to keep the noise down. This lessen backpressure and pumping loses you would get from increasing the power by over 40% and you'll pick up a few HP, not only off the bottle but about double on the bottle over the stock exhaust.
Again - Here's how you drive it...
Goto the strip, put on your drag radials. Turn on your bottle heater, do a small burnout, do a dry hop, stage your car, powerbrake to bring the revs up, leave on the last yellow, leave your car in drive and let the engine and tranny do all the work.
If you have listened to me, you would have knocked off at least 1.5 off your N/A ET's and added about 7-8mph. Your 60ft times should be 2.0-2.1 if not all the way down at 1.9. That's with a 50-75hp shot.
Launching under nitrous with a automatic will NOT cause wheelhop. The power comes on WAY smoother with an auto over a stick. Trust me. Manuel's Neon just squats and goes... No drama.
In fact most automatic cars get a bigger boost in performance over a manual car overall. The reason why automatic cars are so slow in the 1/4 mile is mainly because of poor 60ft times. Usually in the 2.6 or worst area. That causes high ET's and maybe only 3-4mph slower trap speed than a stick car. Also Autos weight more because of the valvebody and torque converter.
Second, don't worry about your transmission with such a small increase in power and torque. Under prolong use it might be an issue but on avg you'll only use the nitrous maybe 5-6 times a week and almost never back to back to back, so just install it and run with it.
Don't worry about the WOT microswitch. They hardly ever fail.
Here I'll make it simple -
Buy a NX kit with GenX upgrade and buy a tranny cooler ( I have the best prices on NX products).
If you have any money left over, find a shop that will mandrel bend or weld up mandrel bends and get at least a 2.25 exhaust made with high-flow straight-though muffler. You can add a resonator like preforated core glasspack mid way between the cat and the muffler to keep the noise down. This lessen backpressure and pumping loses you would get from increasing the power by over 40% and you'll pick up a few HP, not only off the bottle but about double on the bottle over the stock exhaust.
Again - Here's how you drive it...
Goto the strip, put on your drag radials. Turn on your bottle heater, do a small burnout, do a dry hop, stage your car, powerbrake to bring the revs up, leave on the last yellow, leave your car in drive and let the engine and tranny do all the work.
If you have listened to me, you would have knocked off at least 1.5 off your N/A ET's and added about 7-8mph. Your 60ft times should be 2.0-2.1 if not all the way down at 1.9. That's with a 50-75hp shot.
A tranny cooler is a good idea, period.
Launching under nitrous with a automatic will NOT cause wheelhop. The power comes on WAY smoother with an auto over a stick. Trust me. Manuel's Neon just squats and goes... No drama.
In fact most automatic cars get a bigger boost in performance over a manual car overall. The reason why automatic cars are so slow in the 1/4 mile is mainly because of poor 60ft times. Usually in the 2.6 or worst area. That causes high ET's and maybe only 3-4mph slower trap speed than a stick car. Also Autos weight more because of the valvebody and torque converter.
Second, don't worry about your transmission with such a small increase in power and torque. Under prolong use it might be an issue but on avg you'll only use the nitrous maybe 5-6 times a week and almost never back to back to back, so just install it and run with it.
Launching under nitrous with a automatic will NOT cause wheelhop. The power comes on WAY smoother with an auto over a stick. Trust me. Manuel's Neon just squats and goes... No drama.
In fact most automatic cars get a bigger boost in performance over a manual car overall. The reason why automatic cars are so slow in the 1/4 mile is mainly because of poor 60ft times. Usually in the 2.6 or worst area. That causes high ET's and maybe only 3-4mph slower trap speed than a stick car. Also Autos weight more because of the valvebody and torque converter.
Second, don't worry about your transmission with such a small increase in power and torque. Under prolong use it might be an issue but on avg you'll only use the nitrous maybe 5-6 times a week and almost never back to back to back, so just install it and run with it.
PhyschoMP3
Member
Ok this is on a random note... But how much Nos can a stock Integra Engine take??? And how much can a '94 civic take??? If anyone can answer this thanks.
PhyschoMP3 said:
Nitrous on a B-series engine is about the same 50-75hp without progressive control, about 100hp with it and a better header and exhaust. At pass 75hp, exhaust upgrades are a MUST!
I've seen D-series engines use up to 90hp on the stock bottom end, if the exhaust is opened up.
We're talking over 200hp in most cases and a 2.25 single exhaust was not mean to exspell enough backpressure to get max performance or cause high exhaust temps because you're not getting the gases out fast enough. There's no such thing as "good" backpressure.
