New MSP Short-Ram Intake

[InsidiousMSP]

i hate to be a downer, but that just cant replace the sound of a injen intake... there was almost no sucking sound at all... no suck = no fun...

this goes for more than just cars btw

With the short-ram you hear spooling, not sucking. You hear so much sucking with the injen since the turbo fights a 90 degree bend for air. (hand)

 

[Ryan]

LOL wrong, you hear the scream of my turbo over the sucking the sucking just accents it

the 90 degree bend has nothing to do with it.. lets see the dyno's in comparison, mind taking the rocket off the back of ur car b4 u dyno might effect the numbers...

injen is a professional company thats been doing it for years, not somebody thats bored and say oh we'll put a intake it and see what happens... they dont just do prototype after prototype months of work for the hell of it.. if it was easy as just bending some pipes and walla there we have it.. then i'd get someone to make me one at the college i go to LOL.

there's no way i'd pay 200 bucks for that lil peice of pipe, u'd be lucky if ya get 50 for it..

compare prices of shortrams and cai.. pretty big difference in the prices... less material = less work = less cost.

remember is quality not quantity.

but i'll give ya credit does look good but you make it sound as if injen doesn't know wtf there doing and ur friend thats been doing this for how long is instant genious?

 

[InsidiousMSP]

LOL wrong, you hear the scream of my turbo over the sucking the sucking just accents it

the 90 degree bend has nothing to do with it.. lets see the dyno's in comparison, mind taking the rocket off the back of ur car b4 u dyno might effect the numbers...

injen is a professional company thats been doing it for years, not somebody thats bored and say oh we'll put a intake it and see what happens... they dont just do prototype after prototype months of work for the hell of it.. if it was easy as just bending some pipes and walla there we have it.. then i'd get someone to make me one at the college i go to LOL.

there's no way i'd pay 200 bucks for that lil peice of pipe, u'd be lucky if ya get 50 for it..

compare prices of shortrams and cai.. pretty big difference in the prices... less material = less work = less cost.

remember is quality not quantity.

but i'll give ya credit does look good but you make it sound as if injen doesn't know wtf there doing and ur friend thats been doing this for how long is instant genious?

Your mindset is exactly why Injen made a cold air intake. It's what Protege owners want. No offense to anyone here. Injen's first priority is marketing. They make you believe it is the best intake. And it is a good concept, for non-intercooled, naturally aspirated engines. Such as an Integra, Civic, Accord, Cavalier, etc. Look on Injen's CAI application list, and that's the cars you will see.

And they can afford to sell it cheaper because they mass produce it, with their endless supply of materials. Their bulk rates on aluminum must be awesome. As you know, Injen focuses on mass producing intake systems for economy/sport-compact cars. Billet Design works on building individual cars, whether it's their 700rwhp Supra or 850rwhp Porsche. They wouldn't have worked on a Mazdaspeed Protege hadn't I been friends with the owner. It was my idea to bring the intake to the forum, since I didn't see many intake options here.

Do me a favor, go on the Supra forum, or the WRX forum, or the RX7 forum, or the Silvia forum, or the VR4 forum, or the 300ZX forum, or even the Skyline forum, and see what type of intake they are using for their turbocharged car. 99% of the time it's a short-ram intake. What do they do when they want cooler air? Upgrade the intercooler, because that's how we cool the air that goes into the intake manifold. Not by sticking a filter down in the fender.

 

[jred321]

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55616&highlight=cold+air+intake
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65787&highlight=cold+air+intake
convenience is why most people run short ram on turbo's, but i have yet to see hard numbers either way, so until i see hard numbers, i agree with the dsm guys that think every degree of temp drop will help.
edit: and also if you look at a lot of other forums, many of them have built heat shields around their filter if there is room and it will actually block heat

 

[scoobiesport]

InsidiousMSP is right Injen doesnt care if you mod smartly they care if you spend your money on their product. Go to any other turbo forum and you will see that most people that run a CAI say it was a mistake. Just because a civic can slap on a CAI and get a few horsepower doesnt mean a turbo car will. The time when you need an intake upgrade is when your stock one becomes to restrictive. Most new performance cars on the market have very effective intakes (as far as airflow). Save the $200 on your CAI and buy a Co2 sprayer for your intercooler.

PS if you want the cool turbo sound go spend the $30 and buy a turbo noise imitator (rice)

 

[jred321]

hard numbers of temps at the tb? anyone?

 

[scoobiesport]

It would be nice to see:

Dyno #s

ENG. bay temps
Post compressor temps
Post IC temps

 

[jred321]

i have yet to come across them though, and i've been looking for a while

if coldness of the intake air didn't matter, then it also wouldn't matter if the air was hot, since the turbo is heating it up hotter than it is getting sucked in, right? and we all know that isn't true, so there may be a threshold of some sort... the debate rages on with no evidence either way...

 

[Emode]

proportionally hotter

 

[jred321]

if i understand what you're saying (which i admit i don't totally) then cold air would be proportionally colder by that reasoning, right?

 

[Emode]

it comes down to if the difference between semi warm air closer to te turbo and colder air further away from the turbo. I personally think that with the weatherstripping taken away and while moving, the air right at that spot wont be redicuously hot compared to the heat in the wheelwell. I have had the bottom part of my intake hacked, with k&n flatpanel, ever since i have had the car, and the turbo spooled up so much quicker and took of faster than it had before, and the air at that spot of is incredibly hot. If it could move just to the side, like this intake, i think it would be perfect, especially if you could get a shield.

 

[Black Majik MSP]

Insidious is right about SRIs with turbo cars...most CAIs actually have a negative impact on performance. The cool air that REALLY makes a difference is going into the intercooler. If you want want to lower the temp, get a bigger FMIC & an intercooler sprayer.

I am totally interested in this intake, but I DO want a a heat shield & I have no way of fabricating my own. Unless you post #s showing that underhood temp ISN'T a problem, I want the heat shield. Some dyno #s would be nice while you're at it.

 

[jred321]

i agree that a heat shield with an intake in that spot would be the best situation, but there are still no numbers if the injen with it's colder air is beneficial to this with it's shorter path, or even that this with a heat shield would be the best way to go for that matter. if only someone could run the different options with sensors measuring air temps (most importantly at the throttle body)...

 

[jred321]

Insidious is right about SRIs with turbo cars...most CAIs actually have a negative impact on performance.

proof?

 

[mili727]

On turbo cars Short Ram is the way to go. I know on WRX's no one runs a cai because they tend to mess up MAF readings a lot on the dyno. Plus your intercooler is supplying most of the air anyways.

 

[mili727]

proof?

Theres my proof b****.

 

[jred321]

because the wrx maf can't deal with colder air you have proof for all cars?

 

[mili727]

because the wrx maf can't deal with colder air you have proof for all cars?

Hey, go look at Titan Motorsports 8 second Supra, are they runing a CAI? How about a Skyline, WRX, Stealth. You will see the answer is NO.

 

[YuYuRena]

hot air being compressed = hotter air, you can't fight/break 2nd law of thermodynamic.

SRI for FI is good, cuz compressor doesn't have to work hard to suck air in. But it takes more work to compress it since it's hotter.

CAI for FI is also good, consider cooler air means less work to compress, however, the air needs to be sucked in = more work on the compressor.

Both have pros and con, it's a matter of taste. Some people swear that SRI is better than CAI in FI, ok that's fine. And others believe the other way around.

For N/A cars, the colder air of CAI seems more dramatic = higher dyno #s, but if you look at race car they all have SRI, why?? Because they don't want their engines to sucks so hard and they build up so much ram air pressure from their high speed that it is more beneficial to build that way. Plus CAI has more piping = piping frictional flow loss and increase weight from piping.

It's a matter of taste, but this SRI costs almost as much as Injen, mmm...

 

[jred321]

Hey, go look at Titan Motorsports 8 second Supra, are they runing a CAI? How about a Skyline, WRX, Stealth. You will see the answer is NO.

are they running a filter at all? the answer is no. they will have a nice supply of cold air headed up towards the turbo inlet though. and a car that is designed to make 1 quick run down the drag strip with no fear of engine heat soaking into parts is different than a daily driven car.
all of those other engine bays=cramped with intercooler piping, 2 turbos (or a flat engine and lots of longer manifolds because of it). merely convenience, no numbers supporting either way. what YuYuRena said is correct, and i have yet to see numbers supporting either.

p.s.- that sri isn't exactly hard to make and if you knew someone that could weld it could be done real cheap YuYuRena