staples187
Member
- :
- 2007 MazdaSpeed 3
You're right he stated there was virtually no difference between the two cores. As it maybe true, it just doesn't seem technically right. Heatsoak could play a role in it too.
New a little help from the big modders...
- Thread starter AutoXRacer
- Start date
You're right he stated there was virtually no difference between the two cores. As it maybe true, it just doesn't seem technically right. Heatsoak could play a role in it too.
AutoXRacer
Member
How so... Bigger core more prone to heat soak than the smaller core?
Can anyone elaborate?
- :
- 2007 MS3
I would think it would be the other way around. You are generating the same amount of heat regardless. A bigger core means more surface area for air to flow over and pull the heat out of the unit. In addition, the heat is spread out over a larger area, so there are less BTUs per inch of surface area.
The reason there may be no significant difference between 3.25 and 3.5 is because of what is called "the law of diminishing returns". Simply put, since the system is only generating so much heat, you only need so big an intercooler to dissipate that much heat. Anything bigger is just wasted cooling capacity. If you get too big (4.00 for example) you might see response starting to drop off due to things like lag time pressurizing the larger intercooler. I suspect that for lightly modded engines, the 3.25 will be fine, but for guys like Driver and Laloosh who want every bit of power they can squeeze out of their engines, they may need the extra capacity of the 3.5.
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AutoXRacer
Member
I'm confused now... According to PG they recommended the 3.5 because I live in Florida and to reduce or eliminate heat soak the larger core is needed. Now, are they saying that to sell the more expensive core? (huh)
I don't want to purchase the 3.5 if I only need a 3.25.
Man this is frustrating... (bang)
If I go with the 3.5, will I be hurting my efficiency/performance? I'm only asking since I can't make up my mind and if there is no difference between the 3.25 and the 3.5 then I'll go with the 3.5 just in case I may benefit from a larger core. Basically, is the 3.5 core too big and the 3.25 just right? Sorry to ask the same questions over and over(deadhorse, but I can't seem to get a firm answer...
well what he is saying with the law of diminishing returns is that there is only so much improvement one part can generate, in this case, you can only cool down the air so much. If you have an initial air temperature that is low, it will take minimal effort to reduce the charge of air for it to be efficient in your engine. This could likely be accomplished by a smaller core intercooler. In your case, living in florida, the bigger core makes sense because the air you are starting with is so much warmer. For someone in the north that has a much lower starting air temperature, the difference between a 3.25 and 3.5 core would be extremely small, but for you the difference may be much greater.
USAF_TRobertson
Member
If I ever buy one it will be the 3.25". My reasoning behind it is alot of people in "another forum" have been posting information about how the 3.5" sits too tall and actually blocks air from coming into the intercooler area through the plastic vents.
Considering that, the possibility of a fitment issue and the fact that alot of people are saying the 3.5" is overkill and doesnt cool any more efficiently then the 3.25" this should be a no brainer.
How big is the stock intercooler BTW?
Considering that, the possibility of a fitment issue and the fact that alot of people are saying the 3.5" is overkill and doesnt cool any more efficiently then the 3.25" this should be a no brainer.
How big is the stock intercooler BTW?
AutoXRacer
Member
I believe its slightly under 3" if I remember correctly...? Can anyone confirm this?
USAF_TRobertson
Member
Well...
Considering that the original is aprox 3" and that alot of people are claiming there is no gain between the 3.25" and 3.5" this only makes me wonder if there would be significant gains from the 3" to the 3.25".
I know you can't exactly show gains from a intercooler on the dyno - how then can you calculate the efficiency or improvement? Has anyone already done it?
Considering that the original is aprox 3" and that alot of people are claiming there is no gain between the 3.25" and 3.5" this only makes me wonder if there would be significant gains from the 3" to the 3.25".
I know you can't exactly show gains from a intercooler on the dyno - how then can you calculate the efficiency or improvement? Has anyone already done it?
AutoXRacer
Member
According to PG, they have a dyno that shows a 20HP and 20 FT/LBS TQ gain with the 3.25 on a dyno. Here it is:
USAF_TRobertson
Member
I stand corrected. Thank you sir.
AutoXRacer
Member
Laloosh, have you noticed any increased turbo lag with the TMIC?
Did you feel an improvement when you installed the TMIC with all your other mods; was it a substantial improvement...?
Would you recommend this size to someone with stock boost levels?
Can you verify the height of the intercooler as it sits in the ducting? Maybe with pictures or something... I'm just wondering if the extra height of the intercooler pops out of the square ducting on the hood side, slightly blocking the air flow...?
Thanks!!(2thumbs)
- :
- 2007 MS3
Don't forget that the thickness is not the only difference between stock and aftermarket intercoolers. I believe there are some design differences that give an edge to the aftermarket units as well.
The intercooler helped a ton, however you will most likly run into boost cut so you will need a map clamp. I would recommend this to any1 as long as you have a motor mount, i never ran it with the stock mount, so i dont know if it will hit or not. As for how it sits with the hood closed, i cant tell you, but i can tell you that my intercooler is freezing to the touch in jersey when i pop my hood. Not just the front or back, the whole thing is cold.
AutoXRacer
Member
Supposedly, the aftermarket unit has much better flow...seems like the stock unit is really restrictive.
AutoXRacer
Member
Hmmm...
Why would upgrading the TMIC result in boost cut...?
Thanks for the reply!! (2thumbs)
AutoXRacer
Member
I just ordered the 3.25" core... I spoke with another vendor and they also confirmed that the 3.5" core partially blocks airflow through the duct on the hood side...
The flow of air through the ducting is not as efficient with the 3.5" as the 3.25"; they also said that there is no difference in performance between the two sizes...
The flow of air through the ducting is not as efficient with the 3.5" as the 3.25"; they also said that there is no difference in performance between the two sizes...
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USAF_TRobertson
Member
(breakn)I win!!(breakn)
AutoXRacer
Member
(lol)
your improved flowing TMIC will have less pressure drop which results in boost level increase >>>>>> which will award you with boost cut unless you use the ATP cut killer or the map clamp as laloosh suggested
