NA Tech Race to 100whp per 1000cc's

[BinoMP5]

i found a shop to grind a set of cams for me for fairly i mean really cheap... but i have to send in a pair... i'm going to go to a look for a wrecked protege at a junkyard... my friend found one where he lives so i might have to pay a visit... maybe even look for a Manual Transmission while i'm there :3

with a ITB setup, i would have to switch to MAP, right? i just spent the last hour looking up the differences of MAP(Manifold Aboslute Pressure) and MAF(Mass Air Flow). Its a good read and you learn a lot!

But it would be advised to install cams last, right? the cams are the brains... so it'd be like making a Professional Futbol Coach as a Head Coach for the High School Basketball Team... not the best guiding there... but he knows about teamwork!!! and when he does get to be a coach for good futbol players, it's his specialty... if you didnt get my horrible analogy, i was comparing it to some monster cams with stock internals...

i don't think i should be too worried about cam work then as of now unless i can get myself a used Head and build it from there and have it put in the same time the pistons, rods, and the Standalone are being put in...

 

[StealthWyvern]

i found a shop to grind a set of cams for me for fairly i mean really cheap... but i have to send in a pair... i'm going to go to a look for a wrecked protege at a junkyard... my friend found one where he lives so i might have to pay a visit... maybe even look for a Manual Transmission while i'm there :3
with a ITB setup, i would have to switch to MAP, right? i just spent the last hour looking up the differences of MAP(Manifold Aboslute Pressure) and MAF(Mass Air Flow). Its a good read and you learn a lot!

But it would be advised to install cams last, right? the cams are the brains... so it'd be like making a Professional Futbol Coach as a Head Coach for the High School Basketball Team... not the best guiding there... but he knows about teamwork!!! and when he does get to be a coach for good futbol players, it's his specialty... if you didnt get my horrible analogy, i was comparing it to some monster cams with stock internals...

i don't think i should be too worried about cam work then as of now unless i can get myself a used Head and build it from there and have it put in the same time the pistons, rods, and the Standalone are being put in...

and while your at it look for these parts and im sure I have left out a few parts.

1. Shifter plate
2. Shifter
3. Clutch Master Cylinder ($30-$85 car-parts.com)
4. Fluid Lines
5. MTX Transmission ($500-$1.5K car-parts.com)
6. Clutch
7. Fly Wheel
8. MTX ECU
9. MTX Tranny Harness
10. Clutch Pedal
11. Brake Pedal
12. MTX drive axles
13. Shifter cable
14. Pressure Plate

And after all that you will still have to rewire a few things!! The AXT dash harness is different compare to the MTX dash harness.

 

[LordWorm]

with a ITB setup, i would have to switch to MAP, right? i just spent the last hour looking up the differences of MAP(Manifold Aboslute Pressure) and MAF(Mass Air Flow). Its a good read and you learn a lot!

ITB's would be better tuned on TPS (throttle position) - getting a decent MAP signal out of quads is a biatch....any decent aftermarket computer will support load based on TPS...


as for your cams, its not just better to install them last - its best to get them made after everything else is done and you know what the motor is doing. That way, the cam manufacturer can dial in exactly the specs you will need to make the most out of your configuration.

 

[BinoMP5]

and while your at it look for these parts and im sure I have left out a few parts.

1. Shifter plate
2. Shifter
3. Clutch Master Cylinder ($30-$85 car-parts.com)
4. Fluid Lines
5. MTX Transmission ($500-$1.5K car-parts.com)
6. Clutch
7. Fly Wheel
8. MTX ECU
9. MTX Tranny Harness
10. Clutch Pedal
11. Brake Pedal
12. MTX drive axles
13. Shifter cable
14. Pressure Plate

And after all that you will still have to rewire a few things!! The AXT dash harness is different compare to the MTX dash harness.

wow that sounds like a pain... oh well.. i should just build the Auto... Lentech Street Terminator here i come! i mean.... the new Evo X MR is automatic... but theirs is very advanced compared to ours...

ITB's would be better tuned on TPS (throttle position) - getting a decent MAP signal out of quads is a biatch....any decent aftermarket computer will support load based on TPS...


as for your cams, its not just better to install them last - its best to get them made after everything else is done and you know what the motor is doing. That way, the cam manufacturer can dial in exactly the specs you will need to make the most out of your configuration.

i understand... do Standalones play well with the SportAT? and oh yea! have you checked out 505's custom manifold that will hopefully be a success?

 

[StealthWyvern]

wow that sounds like a pain... oh well.. i should just build the Auto... Lentech Street Terminator here i come! i mean....

Trust me I did tons of research into the swap and it would be almost worth it to take out the dash and swap in mtx dash harness in then mess with the wiring differences. Its better, easier, and more then likley cheaper to buidl the auto up.

 

[LordWorm]

BinoMP5: no reason why a stand alone wont play nice with sportAT - the stand alone ECU only looks after fuel and timing - stock computer will remain in place so any communication (if there is any) between the engine computer and tranny computer should remain in tact.

You're probably best of getting the auto tranny worked up. Find a shop that SPECIALIZES in automatic transmissions - theres oodles of things you can do to make auto transmissions better....heres a few that come to mind:

Stage 2 shift kit/valve body - this equates to harder, more precise shifts. You'll likely experience near manualized downshifts. If you are game, you could go a Stage 3 (full manual) shift kit, with a reversed shift pattern. This is the kind of thing that high powered drag cars use with GM and ford auto transmissions.

Hi-stall torque converter to allow you to "stall up" the transmission and launch at higher RPM.

Transbrake - gives you the ability to lock the transmission at the touch of a button, allowing you to hold a high launch RPM. Touch the button again to release the transmission.

Theres plenty of stuff that you can do to an auto trans, most of which will translate over to the mazda transmission with some custom bits and pieces. Auto boxes can be made to shift faster, and harder than any manual transmission is ever likely to shift. Rapid shifts mean less time lost during changes....

 

[i like speed]

One of my buds has a auto trans am that he races it's badass. It shifts so hard if you don't have the brake pushed down HARD it'll spin the tires when you put it in gear.

 

[BinoMP5]

but how do i get the torque that the manuals have? is it because they have one more gear and makes them run through their gears faster? i only have 4 gears... i think that's it... that means i shift less and once its built, I can go through a tiny bit more rpms than them??
I keep looking at MegaSquirt because of its price... some guys here run it on their MSPs though... not NA Automatic Proteges... the miata guys love it! and i think MegaSquirt can run TPS...
i really want to rev around 8k rpms... is that ideal? we only rev up to maybe 6500RPMs, well i do,
plan:
lighter longer forged steel rods and 11:1 HC custom pistons(still trying to fig out what material), and custom grinded cams... what else?
valve springs? bigger valves? ignition, Fuel Pressure Regulator? i was talking to bazooka about his auto turbo setup and he said he's using the stock ECU still... and has the FPR and some O2 sensor thing running fine... he's pushing 170whp at 5psi, not to discourage anyone, there's more satisfaction in NA... hmm... i wonder what would be the results if a 175whp NA FSDE went against a 175whp FI FSDE... not adding the drivers to the equation.... just thinking out loud...

also... is it advisable to have 2 heads? like for my track days, put in the PnP head with Monster Cams and swap in the stock head for DD... lots of time in between... maybe... wait... that's dumb... you have to spend a lot of time messing with timing to get the stock ones to work again...

hmmm this ended up longer than i wanted it to be.... better keep my rants on my thread... sorry guys

 

[StealthWyvern]

Bino the auto's lose a lot of torque and HP due to the torque converter. You will never have the same power output as a standard of coruse thats assumeing the engine is teh same between the two different trans.

 

[LordWorm]

but how do i get the torque that the manuals have? is it because they have one more gear and makes them run through their gears faster? i only have 4 gears... i think that's it... that means i shift less and once its built, I can go through a tiny bit more rpms than them??

you don't make as much power because you lose power through the torque converter. The torque converter is essentially a fluid coupling. Theres a prop on both the gearbox and engine side, inside the converter, and fluid between them. As the engine spins, the fluid rotates the gearbox side of the converter until the gearbox side of the converter rotates at ALMOST (but never quite) the speed of the engine side. Howstuffworks has some nice animations and diagrams of how the process works...and probably explains it better than I can.

A shift kit means the transmission shifts later (if fully manualized it only shifts when you tell it to shift), and shifts harder/faster.

I keep looking at MegaSquirt because of its price... some guys here run it on their MSPs though... not NA Automatic Proteges... the miata guys love it! and i think MegaSquirt can run TPS...

I'm sure the megasquirt is capable, but personally i couldn't deal with the stuffing around - extra money spent on a microtech, or haltech or simillar for reduced headaches with building a megasquirt is money well spent in my book.

plan:
lighter longer forged steel rods and 11:1 HC custom pistons(still trying to fig out what material), and custom grinded cams... what else?
valve springs? bigger valves? ignition, Fuel Pressure Regulator? i was talking to bazooka about his auto turbo setup and he said he's using the stock ECU still... and has the FPR and some O2 sensor thing running fine... he's pushing 170whp at 5psi, not to discourage anyone, there's more satisfaction in NA... hmm... i wonder what would be the results if a 175whp NA FSDE went against a 175whp FI FSDE... not adding the drivers to the equation.... just thinking out loud...

your pistons will likely be forged aluminium - most are from what I understand. I wouldn't do bigger valves because you will reduce intake velocity. Bigger valves may be preferable on a turbo head, but are probably not ideal on an NA build. 175hp turbo vs 175hp na on the same engine, i'd imagine the turbo would still win in a drag race - more area under curve, greater acceleration because of a fatter torque curve....NA 2L 4bangers get pretty peaky when you start pushing them.

also... is it advisable to have 2 heads? like for my track days, put in the PnP head with Monster Cams and swap in the stock head for DD... lots of time in between... maybe... wait... that's dumb... you have to spend a lot of time messing with timing to get the stock ones to work again...

hmmm this ended up longer than i wanted it to be.... better keep my rants on my thread... sorry guys

2 heads would be kinda silly. Aluminium heads really should be machined whenever they are pulled off.... and the stuffing around with swapping them out every time you want to go to the track wouldn't be worth it imho.

 

[i like speed]

^Sorry I loled at that. 2 heads would be very silly. For the reasons mentioned above and fact that you would need a new gasket everytime you switched.

 

[BinoMP5]

okay so... i have some ITB setups available to me ( 4AGE, Busa, GSXR 750 )
i'm thinking about mid 40mm for the throttle bodies... i am purchasing an Intake Manifold Gasket so that i dont have to buy or take mine out just to see if the holes line up... with the gaskets, i would be able to see which one would fit the closest and would mean less fabrication... i noticed that TWM makes some for the Honda motors, i was maybe looking into which of the B D or even the K motors fit closely to ours, intake gasket wise...

from the TBs stated above? what do i need to get from them? i'm looking at them and i dont know what to take from where... lots of plastic is what i have to say...

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

Honestly the cheapest way to find out what is the closest would be to find what ITB setups are out there for what 4 bangers. Then buy the IM gaskets for each and match one up with the FS.

 

[BinoMP5]

one of my friends got his ECU chipped/flashed/cracked/whatever you want to call it... he gained a decent ammount HP with stock internals...

is it safe to get our ECUs chipped? is it better to get the AEM F/IC?
i found a good deal on the AEM F/ICs...

 

[zoomin MP3]

one of my friends got his ECU chipped/flashed/cracked/whatever you want to call it... he gained a decent ammount HP with stock internals...

is it safe to get our ECUs chipped? is it better to get the AEM F/IC?
i found a good deal on the AEM F/ICs...

What kind of good deal? Can it be shared with others (me)? Anyone have input on this controller compared to Split second?

 

[LordWorm]

is it safe to get our ECUs chipped? is it better to get the AEM F/IC?
i found a good deal on the AEM F/ICs...

I don't know that it is overly possible to have our ecu's remapped....at least, i've never heard of anyone doing it successfully....
and you'd just be better off getting a PROVEN stand alone system like a microtech...does everything you want, doesn't cost a great deal, and has OODLES of support on these forums with dozens and dozens of people running them (and just about every AV selling them).

 

[kura808]

lol...u sure it was wit our ecu?

one of my friends got his ECU chipped/flashed/cracked/whatever you want to call it... he gained a decent ammount HP with stock internals...

 

[zoomin MP3]

My buddy here in CO with an MP3 that has been chipped or flashed by Jet Chip. He bought the car used and when we put the turbo and MSP ecu in I noticed that his ecu had been modded. So it can be done, just not common.

 

[MakeMeGoFast]

http://www.jetchip.com/Shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?sppp=10&catID=1

The JET Performance Import Computer Upgrade Package is the solution to performance tuning import and domestic sport compact vehicles. Import computers do not have computer chips that are easily removed, making it necessary for JET engineers to either reprogram the vehicle’s existing chip or remove and replace the chip by desoldering it from the circuit board. The kit provides you with all the materials required to safely send your vehicle computer to JET’s lab for a high performance software upgrade. Once we receive your ECU it will be programmed according to the information you provide on the vehicle specification sheet to optimize performance and mileage to match your specific modifications. JET's exclusive Dynamic Spectrum Tuning provides optimal performance across the entire power band-not just at full throttle. Programming includes extensive modification to air/fuel ratios, ignition advance and boost pressures for turbo applications. More Details

 

[autoxes]

So, I was reading GrassrootsMotorsports magazine today and saw the horesepower numbers on the Tripoint race cars, their N/A 2.3 puts out 265hp, another team's car is putting down 245 with the same motor.