MSP sucks at autoX

[servoeyes]

I think his only concern is the current instability in power delivery. Like Ciri, said (she's one smart lady!) go get it checked out. I have driven a couple other MSPs in Autocross courses and they haven't had these issues.

As for similar Cars...well...there's the Mini Cooper S...but You sure as hell won't find one for 16k!!!

 

[Turbo Matty P]

Anyone else wish they'd added forged internals and an FMIC and charged $1500-2000 extra for the car??

 

[Lt. Dan]

I was the other driver of the MazdaSpeed yesterday... In the handling department, the car felt great! It could definitely benefit from a bigger rear bar, and I'd love to see how it would do on R-Compounds, but considering it was bone stock, I liked it. HOWEVER. I had two complaints. The first is concerning the pedals. I wear a size 13 wide shoe. Somehow, I missed the brake pedal at the end of a long straight at the top of second, and my foot went BETWEEN the brake and gas pedals... Maybe my shoe was wet, maybe I'm just a clutz(okay, I am a clutz.. hehe), but the pedals just felt small.. Granted, I'm coming from my car, which has Sparco Grips.. The other complaint has to do with power delivery. It felt like the car couldn't decide when to come on boost. One corner, I'd get on the gas at about 2K rpm, and boost was there... The next corner, it wouldn't come on until much later.. I'm not as familiar with turbocharged cars as some people, but I've probably driven over 100 different cars at autocrosses over the past few years... I've never experienced one that acted like this. Maybe Autox and I just need a little more time at on course in it. I don't know yet...

Dan

 

[Lt. Dan]

I would think the msp would be the best autocross for any of the cars out there for under 20 grand. What other car would you even consider that would be worthy for you in autocross?

Dodge Neon SRT-4.

 

[chrisjw85]

Dodge Neon SRT-4.

Really? Motortrend did an artical comaring the svt focus, msp, and srt-4 together and they said msp would hands down be the winner with a few more ponies under the hood. Bet you anything they tested an unflashed, a flashed one would've definately won. Anyway they said the msp was better in handeling than the srt-4, and isn't autocross deal mainly with handeling? Why would the neon be better in it then?

 

[Lt. Dan]

Just drove an Auto-x yesterday, and there was plenty of power in the turns. Enough, in fact, to send me on my way to a wonderful 180!

THe car will still bog if you have to romp on it at wicked low RPMS, but that's not how you should be driving Auto-X. You should never have to be off the throttle *that* much with this car. At least...that's been my expereience thus far, and this is only my first season.

Too much power in a front wheel drive car should not cause you to do a "wonderful 180"....

In regards to the second section of your post. I'd love to have you down for a D.C. SCCA event. Because if you aren't ending up in situations where you're slamming on the brakes, and having to get hard on the gas right out of a turn, you must not be pushing the car hard enough...

Dan

 

[ND4MSP]

1. why didn't you keep your civic then? Or even better, what happend to it?
2. Give it another chance!!
3. I'm guessing you dumped at least 5 grand on that civic. Why should a little heat soak stop you?
4. Give it another chance!!

 

[Lt. Dan]

Really? Motortrend did an artical comaring the svt focus, msp, and srt-4 together and they said msp would hands down be the winner with a few more ponies under the hood. Bet you anything they tested an unflashed, a flashed one would've definately won. Anyway they said the msp was better in handeling than the srt-4, and isn't autocross deal mainly with handeling? Why would the neon be better in it then?

First off, are there any actual dyno figures floating around STATING that Mazdaspeeds are gaining horsepower after being flashed? The car probably feels better, maybe a little more linear. But I'd wager peak hp is the same. the big difference between the two is torque. 245 ft/lbs of torque!!!! That much grunt will destroy other cars coming out of the lower speed corners you'll find at an autocross... In their article, the boys at motortrend talk about lapping Willow Springs in the test cars... There is a BIG difference between a race track and an autocross course.


Here's a quote from that article:

Mazda's first toe dipped into the sport-compact ocean is going to make a big splash and is a great taste of things to come from the talented folks at MazdaSpeed. This Protege hits a sweet spot in the market, delivering fantastic handling, spirited performance, fine balance, great audio, and that signature sport-compact look without compromising the everyday useability of the car. With a few more ponies under its turbocharged hood, the MazdaSpeed Protege would be the hands-down winner of this contest.


One trip around the block will tell you the SRT-4 is immensely more entertaining to drive than the MazdaSpeed Protege or SVT Focus. As good as the Mazda and Ford are, this unexpected entry from a carmaker with zero sport-compact presence just delivers maximum grins and giggles for minimum coin. With acceleration, braking, and handling numbers akin to a Nissan 350Z and a price close to a four-cylinder Camry, the SRT-4 brings excitement to the just-under-$20,000 hot sedan segment.

It boils down to this: The world-class at-the-limit handling of the MazdaSpeed Protege isn't something you're likely to use often in everyday traffic, while the unexpectedly delicious power of the Dodge SRT-4 is a force you'll have a hard time resisting time and again. Game, point, match: Dodge--at least for now.

 

[Lt. Dan]

DooD, It cracks me up that your having this issue. I truly believe it is the drive, and not the car. A good autoxer will rev match, know the pivot points of his car, learn the track, and attack it with all his skill and knowledge.

Take a few more tries in the seat before you go bashing the power of the msp. IT is built specifically for autox racing, and has owned the evo and sti at many o events. /members/boostisgood/ownedstrippedcar.jpg

BWAHAAAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!! Do you have any results to back this up? I'm talking about Stock Verses Stock. Two good drivers... Please, look up a page that shows results I can view.

Dan

 

[Newf]

This complaining is really ruining this forum. Really, I'm going to start asking to be a mod so I can delete this s*** if it continues....j/k

Couple things aimed at a few people...

1. Why was your car flashed twice? Sounds like a dealer not knowing wtf their doing. Was the ECU reset after the update?

2. The Speed was NOT built for AutoX purposes. It was built more for a track car. If it was a AutoX car, it would not have come with these bridgestones would it. it just happens to be that it's an extemely good autox car (with the right driver)

3. Why twice? Sure they used the right file????

4. twice?

5. Who in the $%#$ expects any turbo to be kicking in at 2000 rpms.....hello.?????

6. Some of you guys are worried about getting the flash because of what this new guy said after owning for only 2k miles, and one autox???? really? My car has a much more consistent power band and much much less hesitation since the flash.

You used to drive a Honda....me too. now would you drive around in a vtec at 2 grand expecting full power? No, you would keep it in it's sweet spot. The Speed has it's sweet spot too, and it's not 2 grand, and it's not 6 grand either. Play with, it's DEAD obvious.



This car is tricky to drive quick. VEry tricky. I had a 97 lude, and I can tell you this speed can outhandle it on any given day, and if you know HOW to drive it, it's quicker too.....until the govenor anyways.

Honestly...LEARN to drive THIS car. I don't give a s*** how good a driver you think you are ( directed at a few people ) this car has some serious learning curve to get the most out of it. Give it time.

Now, can we stop f'n crying around here!

 

[Lt. Dan]

Sorry, I was probably off with my rpm statement. When I'm on course, I'm not looking at my gauges, I'm looking two or three gates ahead, planning my line. But that doesn't change the fact that the car didn't feel like it was coming on boost consistently... I've been reading some of the threads in the MazdaSpeed forum, and I think this may have been caused by heat soak.. Has anyone tried to hose down the intercooler with a garden sprayer? I think autoxmsp and myself are going to have to pick one up....

Dan

 

[Cirielle]

I was the other driver of the MazdaSpeed yesterday... In the handling department, the car felt great! It could definitely benefit from a bigger rear bar, and I'd love to see how it would do on R-Compounds, but considering it was bone stock, I liked it. HOWEVER. I had two complaints. The first is concerning the pedals. I wear a size 13 wide shoe. Somehow, I missed the brake pedal at the end of a long straight at the top of second, and my foot went BETWEEN the brake and gas pedals... Maybe my shoe was wet, maybe I'm just a clutz(okay, I am a clutz.. hehe), but the pedals just felt small.. Granted, I'm coming from my car, which has Sparco Grips.. The other complaint has to do with power delivery. It felt like the car couldn't decide when to come on boost. One corner, I'd get on the gas at about 2K rpm, and boost was there... The next corner, it wouldn't come on until much later.. I'm not as familiar with turbocharged cars as some people, but I've probably driven over 100 different cars at autocrosses over the past few years... I've never experienced one that acted like this. Maybe Autox and I just need a little more time at on course in it. I don't know yet...

Dan

Boosting at 2k??? Not likely!!! Not unless there are some serious issues with this car! I would take it to the dealer and see if there is a leak. I would also hook up some gauges and get some mad data. If it is having bad surges I would say that a. the ecu is ****** or b. you have a leak somewhere! Maybe a bad MAF. All warranty and all worthy of being checked out! Of course you should not tell the Mazda guys that you found all this out when autocrossing!!!
As for the Sparco pedals....yep they can be slippery if wet. No biggie, just don't put wet nasty shoes in your ride....have some pride dammit! (laugh)

 

[Cirielle]

Sorry, I was probably off with my rpm statement. When I'm on course, I'm not looking at my gauges, I'm looking two or three gates ahead, planning my line. But that doesn't change the fact that the car didn't feel like it was coming on boost consistently... I've been reading some of the threads in the MazdaSpeed forum, and I think this may have been caused by heat soak.. Has anyone tried to hose down the intercooler with a garden sprayer? I think autoxmsp and myself are going to have to pick one up....

Dan

Heatsoak should really not been a major problem yesterday. Especially not after a couple of runs. Not in the way that you are making it out at least. I mean heatsoak can be a b****, but not one that would change the powering between one corner and the next. Not to the description that you have given. If it is heatsoak that is this culprit (and that is possible and you aren't conveying the right info across) then I suggest a FMIC. Spraying that pip-squeek of a intercooler ain't gonna help that much! Upgrades are the way to go if it is that!

 

[Newf]

try the mp3 peddles....even worse when their wet.

I find the peddles much closer together in the speed though. Great for heel toe, but I Can't wait to start driving with winter boots on

 

[Lt. Dan]

Heatsoak should really not been a major problem yesterday. Especially not after a couple of runs. Not in the way that you are making it out at least. I mean heatsoak can be a b****, but not one that would change the powering between one corner and the next. Not to the description that you have given. If it is heatsoak that is this culprit (and that is possible and you aren't conveying the right info across) then I suggest a FMIC. Spraying that pip-squeek of a intercooler ain't gonna help that much! Upgrades are the way to go if it is that!

An FMIC would be cool, except for the fact that it throws you out of stock class.... Probably try ice water in the garden sprayer.. see if that helps...

Dan

 

[03MSPRO]

i bet the problem is the ic getting too hot and not having enough time to cool off. i experience the same while racing at the strip. the 1st run the car feels good, but if i don't let it cool off the next run sucks!! a larger fmic would solve that!

 

[scapamouche]

First off, are there any actual dyno figures floating around STATING that Mazdaspeeds are gaining horsepower after being flashed? The car probably feels better, maybe a little more linear. But I'd wager peak hp is the same. the big difference between the two is torque. 245 ft/lbs of torque!!!! That much grunt will destroy other cars coming out of the lower speed corners you'll find at an autocross...
Here's a quote from that article:

Mazda's first toe dipped into the sport-compact ocean is going to make a big splash and is a great taste of things to come from the talented folks at MazdaSpeed. This Protege hits a sweet spot in the market, delivering fantastic handling, spirited performance, fine balance, great audio, and that signature sport-compact look without compromising the everyday useability of the car. With a few more ponies under its turbocharged hood, the MazdaSpeed Protege would be the hands-down winner of this contest.


One trip around the block will tell you the SRT-4 is immensely more entertaining to drive than the MazdaSpeed Protege or SVT Focus. As good as the Mazda and Ford are, this unexpected entry from a carmaker with zero sport-compact presence just delivers maximum grins and giggles for minimum coin. With acceleration, braking, and handling numbers akin to a Nissan 350Z and a price close to a four-cylinder Camry, the SRT-4 brings excitement to the just-under-$20,000 hot sedan segment.

It boils down to this: The world-class at-the-limit handling of the MazdaSpeed Protege isn't something you're likely to use often in everyday traffic, while the unexpectedly delicious power of the Dodge SRT-4 is a force you'll have a hard time resisting time and again. Game, point, match: Dodge--at least for now.

The article is fine for street driving, but I haven't seen an SRT-4 yet that I couldn't demolish on an autox with my STOCK MSP... All that torque is great... in a straight line, but coming out of a corner, all the SRT does is go up in smoke, especially at autox speeds. The LSD in the '04s will help, but I don't see the SRT being a good autox car: I have traction problems with the level of torque in the MSP, much less 80ft-lbs MORE with the same size tires (on narrower rims, mind you...)

I'd say the SRT is a great street/drag car, and probably a good track car, but a LOUSY autox car. And yes, before you say it, I HAVE driven an SRT.... I'm very glad I got the MSP instead...

BTW i know i can out drive 99% of the people on this forum.

Since we're flaming, I bet I'm one of that 1%... some of us are pretty accomplished autoxers...

 

[4001]

First off, are there any actual dyno figures floating around STATING that Mazdaspeeds are gaining horsepower after being flashed?

Yes

 

[servoeyes]

Too much power in a front wheel drive car should not cause you to do a "wonderful 180"....

In regards to the second section of your post. I'd love to have you down for a D.C. SCCA event. Because if you aren't ending up in situations where you're slamming on the brakes, and having to get hard on the gas right out of a turn, you must not be pushing the car hard enough...

Dan

Lemme lay out the situation:

Wet course, 40 psi front, 42 psi rear, lane change maneuveur (frpom right to left to right) into a medium left double gate for second lap. Came out of a wide left hand sweeper into this section which seemed a lot faster than it was the first time I took it. Well I under estimated my velocity, powered left to make that double gate, and just spun the wheels from the torque instead of gripping and it was enough to keep my ass end out and moving.

Another thing...the MSP is not a typical FWD car. It is fairly neutral in the dry and loves to oversteer with a little moisture. We do have to break hard and then hit throttle where I race. However, in this car (at least mine), if you are on the brake long enough that you've dropped below 2k rpm in second (from a quick straight), you will hit the ABS. I'm talking length in time of braking, not how hard you hit it. The only situation where I've ever dropped that low is in a hairpin. And then, yes, from a crawl in second gear you will slug along. But I have never had power delivery issues with the MSP, in my experience. --EDIT--(post CAI and Flash)--/EDIT--

Also...to address your final point. I push the gas too hard and the break not hard enough. I still need more seat time...I still drive it like I drive on the street softly braking, just a bit more exaggerated on the course.

 

[servoeyes]

The article is fine for street driving, but I haven't seen an SRT-4 yet that I couldn't demolish on an autox with my STOCK MSP... All that torque is great... in a straight line, but coming out of a corner, all the SRT does is go up in smoke, especially at autox speeds. The LSD in the '04s will help, but I don't see the SRT being a good autox car: I have traction problems with the level of torque in the MSP, much less 80ft-lbs MORE with the same size tires (on narrower rims, mind you...)

I'd say the SRT is a great street/drag car, and probably a good track car, but a LOUSY autox car. And yes, before you say it, I HAVE driven an SRT.... I'm very glad I got the MSP instead...



Since we're flaming, I bet I'm one of that 1%... some of us are pretty accomplished autoxers...

hehe...Scaps has seen me race, and has even let me drive his car. he can tell you how inexperienced I am.