MSP in DS
- Thread starter Macs MSP
- Start date
This will be my second year with the MSP in DS. Last year i ran on street tires all year long which i would definitely recommend as it really helps you learn the car.
I am now on Hoosier A6s and absolutely LOVE it!
The car is really well balanced (if you get the pressures right) and i firmly believe that it can run with the best in the class.
I am just competing locally for now as i don't really have the time to travel to do National tour events (college student). but like i said, i do believe that in the hands of the right driver it would be a nationally competitive car.
DS is DEFINITELY the best class for the car. STX you will get beat by the Subarus and i wouldn't even want to think about the amount of $ you would need to put into the car to go into a prepared or modified class.
Good luck!
I am now on Hoosier A6s and absolutely LOVE it!
The car is really well balanced (if you get the pressures right) and i firmly believe that it can run with the best in the class.
I am just competing locally for now as i don't really have the time to travel to do National tour events (college student). but like i said, i do believe that in the hands of the right driver it would be a nationally competitive car.
DS is DEFINITELY the best class for the car. STX you will get beat by the Subarus and i wouldn't even want to think about the amount of $ you would need to put into the car to go into a prepared or modified class.
Good luck!
Jeff@Tri-Point
Member
chris1866 said:
I disagree... There has never been a fully prepped MSP running in STX.
Jeff@Tri-Point said:
It really depends on the level of competition.
Locally, yes, a good driver can do well in an STX MSP (or really anything, for that matter).
And while i'm not saying that the MSP is the WORST car for STX, it's just not the best--nationally.
I firmly believe that nationally, nothing nothing nothing, will beat a fully prepped WRX in STX. dry, wet, nothing.
But, like i said, locally--i believe a well-prepared MSP could do quite well in the hands of a capable driver.
Jeff@Tri-Point
Member
So your one of "those" people... The car to have is the only way to win, enough said. Unsubscribing.chris1866 said:
BTW my local events, has the 06 national champ car in stx... I will know within the next year.
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I might be running DS after next weekend.
Only mod to the car will be a working engine and K1-TS wheels with Hoosier R6's.
I think the MSP has a chance in DS, STX, and DSP (after that I have no clue)
In DS I think it is setup pretty well stock and I don't think you will gain all that much from shocks like some other cars do but I think they will still give you a little better car but will cost a good bit of money.
in STX I think we are just starting to see the well setup cars and they are still working thru some growing pains (Jeff, Britt) but having seen what a locally prepped MSP can do around here (Dave Mac) I think it has a chance nationally.
I don't think anybody has really even tried to setup a DSP MSP and it would be even more expensive than the STX one (or even XelderX's FSP build) but I think with proper engine management and boost control and with the new 275 15" Hoosiers it could do very well at the national level.
Only mod to the car will be a working engine and K1-TS wheels with Hoosier R6's.
I think the MSP has a chance in DS, STX, and DSP (after that I have no clue)
In DS I think it is setup pretty well stock and I don't think you will gain all that much from shocks like some other cars do but I think they will still give you a little better car but will cost a good bit of money.
in STX I think we are just starting to see the well setup cars and they are still working thru some growing pains (Jeff, Britt) but having seen what a locally prepped MSP can do around here (Dave Mac) I think it has a chance nationally.
I don't think anybody has really even tried to setup a DSP MSP and it would be even more expensive than the STX one (or even XelderX's FSP build) but I think with proper engine management and boost control and with the new 275 15" Hoosiers it could do very well at the national level.
C'mon guys don't start an STX argument on my DS thread. I'm trying to get DS info. If I wanted to read about STX there's tons of threads about it.
Actually you are wrong about that. My co-driver and I have been playing around with different shocks and have had some great results. There is a lot of setup possibilities for the car and I'm wondering if anyone else has tried. Morris who ran the last Tour event has done some adjustments but is still running stock shocks. With his 4th place trophy, that means that a better set up car could place even higher. Back in 2005 there was an MSP that took a 6th place trophy at Nationals. I'm still trying to find out how they had the car set up.
moxnix said:
Actually you are wrong about that. My co-driver and I have been playing around with different shocks and have had some great results. There is a lot of setup possibilities for the car and I'm wondering if anyone else has tried. Morris who ran the last Tour event has done some adjustments but is still running stock shocks. With his 4th place trophy, that means that a better set up car could place even higher. Back in 2005 there was an MSP that took a 6th place trophy at Nationals. I'm still trying to find out how they had the car set up.
khaosman said:Just tell him he'll never beat those Type Rs in DS and rain poo on his parade
I think an MSP has a MUCH better chance of beating an ITR in DS than an STX WRX.
Locally, sure. anything can happen. But as many of you know, nationals is a totally different story.
And no, i am not one of those who thinks you have to have only a certain car to win. Like i said, i think that a well setup DS MSP has a great chance to win DS on the national level.
But in STX? Those WRXs put down something like 240 to the WHEELS with an STX fuel map. Plus with the class-legal suspension upgrades, they can handle significantly better than from the factory.
Jeff, Britt, and others-- I totally support what you are doing campaigning an MSP in STX. I know you guys have put alot of time and effort into those cars. I'm an MSP owner! Of course i'd love to see the car do well in as many classes as possible. I was merely pointing out that imo, it would be easiest (cheapest, etc) to run the car in DS.
Macs MSP said:
I am Interested in hearing anything you are willing to share on this.
I thought the current owner of that MSP from nationals is on the boards now Gobbracing I think is his name.
It was running stock shocks with Kazara wheels (50mm) and 245/40 fronts with 225/45 rears hoosier A5's at nationals in 05 and at devens in 06.
We need someone to really put a few good seasons worth of setup time into a DS MSP. Running the 245s on the front give it an advantage over most of the other DS cars. The suspension is right in the mix, but the stock Tokicos aren't going to cut it. Something with a little more control will make a huge difference. It also needs an aggressive alignment. SOmething you can't drive with on the streets. Get aggressive with the toe out on the front.
Gobbracing
Member
- :
- Owned a 2003.5 Yellow MSP
Macs MSP said:
I own that MSP now. The previous owner and his co-driver (he's the one who trophied) are members of the CADL. I purchased the car end of June last year. Did one event with them on a finished set of Hoosiers and it was blast. When I bought the MSP end of june, it had 1/16 toe-out everywhere and they were not as happy with it as with this set-up:
- Front: O toe, max camber (1) and caster (2.6) (green dot on the top plates aimed outer front)
- Rear: 0 toe, 1 camber
- Front sway bar stiffened by adding a hole
- Wheels: Kazeras w/+50mm offset
- Tires: Hoosiers 245-40/17 up front and 225-45/17 in the back.
The co-driver who trophied is one hell of a good driver. He drove the MSP on the OEM tires the first day because it rained. He showed some of the MSP true potential and the second day.
I went to Topeka for my first experience last year and DS competitors were asking me and my co-driver if we were running in DS. They were happy when we said STX. I was surprised not to see more than 1 MSP running in DS and it was in DSL.
Right now I'm running in STX locally. Next year planning to go back in DS. I'm only adding 1.5 front camber to their original set-up
I hope to be able to go back to Topeka next year in DS with the same set-up they used and adjustable shocks.
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xelderx said:
I was thinking the same thing.
I talked with another MSP owner over the weekend, he has a MS3 now, and he ran the staggered tire set up last year. He said he liked it a lot and he didn't run any toe out either. He also ran the Kasera wheels but had nothing else done to the car. He did well in the MS3, he beat me with a bone stock MSP running with year and a half old Avon tires (not my car). My car is in the shop getting body work done. His car felt so different from mine it was frustrating.
Gobbracing said:
Thanks for posting about this. I was very curious about that car. It's good to know that the MSP may be intimidating to other DS drivers on the National level.
I'm a little curious how you are going to run more than 1deg negative camber when there's no way to do it with the stock settings.
What shocks are you thinking of running? It seems like no one else except me has run on anything but stock shocks. I'm going through a bit of trial and error but I'll have some good info about half way through the season I'm thinking.
Gobbracing
Member
- :
- Owned a 2003.5 Yellow MSP
Over here everybody knows that a MSP can beat a Type R. Since 2005 we have seen a bone stock MSP edging a fully prepped Type R, both running Hoosiers and having co-drivers.
We have some very strong solo2 drivers that go do National Tours events close to Quebec plus Topeka on a yearly basis, and they are extremely competitive between each other.
This year I hope to be able to give some good competition to a STX Type R that has some preparation done to it. The driver is the club 2006 champ.
For my camber I bought Eibach camber bolts that give me that extra 1.5.
I just got my car aligned yesterday to the specs I mentionned.
For the shocks, Jeff@Tri-Point informed me of their wet conversion done using Koni internals. I looked at the Illuminas but the rear got me wondering for the adjusting, and I'm also hoping to find some Koni inserts. I'm looking at all the available options right now and I beleive this is the forum for it. Right now all I have found is mostly for STX and DSP.
I will be needing some shocks around mid-season and I guess I'll go with the OEM for now and keep my old ones for a future conversion.
We have some very strong solo2 drivers that go do National Tours events close to Quebec plus Topeka on a yearly basis, and they are extremely competitive between each other.
This year I hope to be able to give some good competition to a STX Type R that has some preparation done to it. The driver is the club 2006 champ.
For my camber I bought Eibach camber bolts that give me that extra 1.5.
I just got my car aligned yesterday to the specs I mentionned.
For the shocks, Jeff@Tri-Point informed me of their wet conversion done using Koni internals. I looked at the Illuminas but the rear got me wondering for the adjusting, and I'm also hoping to find some Koni inserts. I'm looking at all the available options right now and I beleive this is the forum for it. Right now all I have found is mostly for STX and DSP.
I will be needing some shocks around mid-season and I guess I'll go with the OEM for now and keep my old ones for a future conversion.
Shocks
Camber bolts are fine for STX but they are illegal in DS.
I called Jeff also about the Koni fabrication but what he doesn't realize is that the stroke length on the Koni is over 1" less up front which is also illegal in DS. As of right now Koni has nothing that will fit a DS MSP. He is not using Koni internals he is actually inserting a Koni shock into the MSP stock shock body.
Another shock issue is the rear. There is not one aftermarket shock on the market that is DS legal for the MSP. Every aftermarket shock made for the Protege has a spring perch that is 3/4" lower than stock. That is also illegal in DS.
I'm just full of great news aren't I!
Gobbracing said:
Camber bolts are fine for STX but they are illegal in DS.
I called Jeff also about the Koni fabrication but what he doesn't realize is that the stroke length on the Koni is over 1" less up front which is also illegal in DS. As of right now Koni has nothing that will fit a DS MSP. He is not using Koni internals he is actually inserting a Koni shock into the MSP stock shock body.
Another shock issue is the rear. There is not one aftermarket shock on the market that is DS legal for the MSP. Every aftermarket shock made for the Protege has a spring perch that is 3/4" lower than stock. That is also illegal in DS.
I'm just full of great news aren't I!
Jeff@Tri-Point
Member
No I never said that.. I know that the Koni insert will not be legal for DS. You need to get a custom wet build. Which will take out your exisiting internals and put Koni internals. The shafts would be cut to stock length, you would retain the stock spring perch height... Instead of a Tockio Strut, you woudl have a Koni Strut.Macs MSP said:
$400.00/Strut Single Adjustable
$550.00/Strut Double Adjustable
4 Week lead time and we require your Stock Strut Housings, unless you want to pay me a core charge and I will use my stock tockios and cut them up, so you have the least amount of down time. The core charge would be refunded as soon as your Struts get back to us.
