ms3 FMI= play with the A/F??

[f.tardif]

hey guys,

just installed a huge front mount intercooler with 2.5" piping and a HKS bov on my 07' ms3. i was wondering if i had to do something with the A/F tunning or something?? the car dosen't seem to be missing any fuel but i don't see much difference with the setup, only that the car is more prompt... and the bov sound is awsome, obviously...

p.s.: i don't have a cobb, looking forward to buy one thought

 

[oaklandopen]

Omg your engine bay looks facking terrible...especially your battery. Try to clean up some of that rust!

As far as a/f stuff, your ecu should be feeding the correct stuff regardless. As far as getting the most benefit from your mods, the ap will do that. As far as getting the most power from your mods with the ap, get the correct maps or get a pro tuner to customize it to your specific needs

 

[MSMS3]

Where is your air filter? What is the MAF housing? Is that BOV vent to air or recirc. I don't see a recirc tube. Maybe I just can't see it?

 

[skallen]

Is it just me or does that piping look messed up?? The MAF housing appears to be in the wrong spot, there is absolutely no air filtration whatsoever.....There is an open pipe doing??? Wow!! And the IC core looks to be on the wrong side of ****** huge!!!

 

[MSMS3]

Skallen, I'm beginning to think this is some kind of big joke. OP connected some things in the most bizarre way just to get a reaction.

 

[f.tardif]

wow guys, i think you didn't see what we were trying to do here:

1- the air filter isn't on the piping cause i wanted you to see the bov.
2- the MAF housing is gone, look on the left of the bov and you'ill see the MAF sensor. i put it there so i could put the bov ext. and have the most precise readings for the a/f when entering the intake.
3- no the piping isn't messed up, i think you need to look it up closer cause it's really a good homemade piping kit that was mendrel bent and welded at the most so we wouldn't need too many couplings where i could have some kind of air breach...
4- yes the engine bay isn't that clean. i live in quebec canada so we got to put some antirust all over the car so it dosen't rust during the winter. and for the battery, alot of rust there when i took off the cap that covered it before...will try to clean everything up...

for the rest of the responses for my question, thanks.

 

[oaklandopen]

H

 

[KrGsMrNKusinagi]

First thing people do is attack the OP.. Disgusting

 

[Darth Vader]

Good plan.

way oversized FMIC, chopped-up tin, jack-leg piping kit, blow-through MAF conversion on a MAF/ECM expecting draw-through, unknown tune. I'm pretty easy on people around here but, keeripes, there's so many ways this is going to struggle to work.

 

[oaklandopen]

Haha...didn't even think about that with the maf. How turbulent is that air going to be at that point in the system? Probably a s***-ton

The only sensor that would work there would be an air temp sensor since its near the last possible moment before it gets intorduced into the cylinder

Plus, there is a reason why all that piping needs "movable" connections as opposed to hard lines. Thers needs to be some give in all that piping or else it will be too rigid and crack under the movement of the rest of the frame and engine, etc

 

[f.tardif]

way oversized FMIC??? not sure about that, do you think that guys who own neon srt-4 put a too large intercooler when they change the original one?? not sure, bigger is better, air is colder at the end when passing in a huge one than a little one...

 

[f.tardif]

sorry but there are some expressions that i don't understand (i'm french...)

chopped-up tin, jack-leg piping kit,blow-through MAF conversion on a MAF/ECM expecting draw-through

thanks for the precision

 

[oaklandopen]

Bigger isn't necessarily better when it comes to intercoolers. Id say quality and placement, according to your needs, outweighs size

If you think bigger is better, what happens when your little turbo tries to push the same amount of air through larger holes? You get more lag, for one. And your idea of getting colder air by passing air through a "larger" hole is completely wrong. Essentially, the amount of surface area to cool the pressurized air is better than internal dimensions. You get your cooling ability from the heat sink, not from the piping

Unless you have asperations of a bigger turbo. Then I would say bigger piping is better for you

 

[MSMS3]

Man, so many levels of fail.

Darth was blunt, but kind. He is Canadian too. Perhaps not French speaking though.

I would have thought OP would get the drift of the message. To me it means: (1) Poor selection of IC core size - being way oversize does result in poor performance - big drop in pressure and lots of lag, careful match of core size and piping to flow characteristics of the turbo produces better results; (2) Poor metal fabrication, despite use of mandrel bending; (3) attempt at blow through MAF with stock sensor on a draw through ECU.

Sometimes it's just better to let the pros do the R&D and buy a complete kit or at least a properly sized core and a piping kit.

It is highly unlikely that the stock MAF sensor will work in blow-through mode, or that it will hold up to the pressure and turbulence and give anything close to accurate readings. Those readings will be wrong for the stock ECU or any available aftermarket tuning option. If it works at all, it would require a custom tune from a very experienced tuner with a strong background in blow-through MAF systems being used on a high pressure direct fuel injection engine with an extremely complex ECU we still have not fully debugged for tuning.

 

[Darth Vader]

Let me clarify, maybe a bit more kindly.

Big thing with IC sizing on the stock turbo is expecting the little turbo to fill that huge volume of space. Thus, you have to spin the little thing alot harder, you overspeed it and it dies. Plus, until it does, you are making it a heat engine rather than a turbocharger because you are closing in on the surge line of the compressor map. This turbo is a good match for the stock IC or a small FMIC but that's it.

You've permanently hacked up the bumper on the car and seriously compromised safety to mount your huge core, plus it's dangling there, bending what metal is left.

You do need specialised tuning to run blow-through (turbo upstream of MAF). You CAN'T just change the stock MAF (mass airflow sensor) to blow through and call it done.

 

[f.tardif]

so just putting back the MAF where it was before would be a good thing to do at this point right?? i understand the concerns about the big FMIC, but with the MAF changed place, would it be more secure to keep the big FMIC or still not??

 

[MSMS3]

Darth is right, as he almost always is, and I apologize if I was too rough. Well, we now realize that you are having other issues, from your thread about throttle response problems (gaz pedal).

I think that you really do need to at least temporarily put the stock IC back on, return the MAF sensor to its stock location and otherwise put the car back into the condition it was when you were first experiencing the throttle problems. That way you can trouble shoot that problem first, get it fixed ,and then move on with your mods. Too many new variables on top of an old problem make diagnosis extremely difficult

I don't see how you can move the MAF sensor to the pressurized side without an expensive custom tune. I'm not sure that a custom tune would work on our ECU for that purpose. Also, it's really not worth the effort unless you are putting in a big turbo with external wastegate and want to completely modify the manifolds on both the intake and exhaust side. That means big $$$$. Same with that way oversized FMIC.

But if you want to try that FMIC, I'd say take it off and go back to stock until you get everything else sorted out and running properly first. Then, after all is sorted out and working well, give it a try. I think you'll find that Darth was right about what will happen, though.

 

[Darth Vader]

It would definitely be a good idea to return the MAF to its stock location.

 

[meicalnissyen]

way oversized FMIC??? not sure about that, do you think that guys who own neon srt-4 put a too large intercooler when they change the original one?? not sure, bigger is better, air is colder at the end when passing in a huge one than a little one...

Bigger is not better

Read, learn, read more

http://www.bellintercoolers.com/

 

[meicalnissyen]

Man, so many levels of fail.

Darth was blunt, but kind. He is Canadian too. Perhaps not French speaking though.

I would have thought OP would get the drift of the message. To me it means: (1) Poor selection of IC core size - being way oversize does result in poor performance - big drop in pressure and lots of lag, careful match of core size and piping to flow characteristics of the turbo produces better results; (2) Poor metal fabrication, despite use of mandrel bending; (3) attempt at blow through MAF with stock sensor on a draw through ECU.

Sometimes it's just better to let the pros do the R&D and buy a complete kit or at least a properly sized core and a piping kit.

It is highly unlikely that the stock MAF sensor will work in blow-through mode, or that it will hold up to the pressure and turbulence and give anything close to accurate readings. Those readings will be wrong for the stock ECU or any available aftermarket tuning option. If it works at all, it would require a custom tune from a very experienced tuner with a strong background in blow-through MAF systems being used on a high pressure direct fuel injection engine with an extremely complex ECU we still have not fully debugged for tuning.

Wow,
Your combination of insight, vocabulary, and patience never fail to amaze me