Michelin Cross Climate

[yrwei52]

⋯ The drive up is always shaded and gets very slick with rain,

Please report us back on this with your new Michelin CrossClimate² which has “640 B A” UTQG as Michelin has given the poor “B” rating on (wet) traction for the tire.

 

[ruthrj]

B doesn’t mean poor. It’s AA, A, B, C rating for a locked tire braking/skidding on wet pavement, which I doubt I’ll ever encounter with ABS. They performed very well on wet track testing relative to A traction counterparts and actually beat them on dry track in TireRack testing: https://youtu.be/C6a8VV3I0Xg

I didn’t realize the stock Yokohama tires on my ‘19 RAV4 were also given a B traction rating. Once I found that out I had no worries with that rating. Aside from how loud those Yokohama tires are, I’ve never been in an uncomfortable situation with our RAV4. I don’t think we’ve ever lost traction in any situation.

 

[ACSCX5]

Please report us back on this with your new Michelin CrossClimate² which has “640 B A” UTQG as Michelin has given the poor “B” rating on (wet) traction for the tire.

That rating grades the tire’s coefficient of friction with a locked-up tire, traveling 40 mph on a wet surface. A situation that used to happen in the days before anti-lock brakes when the driver would slam on the brakes in a panicked braking situation, essentially locking up the wheel and skidding to a stop. It was more a test of the tire’s materials than it was of the tire’s tread pattern since it was only testing a non-rolling tire. Back in those days, this was useful information about a tire. With the anti-lock braking systems in today’s modern cars, that rating is now antiquated and meaningless since tires are no longer subjected to those conditions. ABS prevents the tires from locking up, even when you push the brake pedal to the floor. I can see where it would be a useful rating if you were choosing tires for your 1960s muscle car or for your trailer that has brakes but not ABS. When choosing tires for a modern and capable CX-5, I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the traction rating of a tire.

 

[yrwei52]

That rating grades the tire’s coefficient of friction with a locked-up tire, traveling 40 mph on a wet surface. A situation that used to happen in the days before anti-lock brakes when the driver would slam on the brakes in a panicked braking situation, essentially locking up the wheel and skidding to a stop. It was more a test of the tire’s materials than it was of the tire’s tread pattern since it was only testing a non-rolling tire. Back in those days, this was useful information about a tire. With the anti-lock braking systems in today’s modern cars, that rating is now antiquated and meaningless since tires are no longer subjected to those conditions. ABS prevents the tires from locking up, even when you push the brake pedal to the floor. I can see where it would be a useful rating if you were choosing tires for your 1960s muscle car or for your trailer that has brakes but not ABS. When choosing tires for a modern and capable CX-5, I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the traction rating of a tire.

Even with ABS, a tire which is easier to get locked-up and skid on wet surface will have longer braking distance comparing to a tire which is harder to skid, as ABS has to release the barking power more often to avoid locking-up and skidding, hence longer braking distance.

Yes, I definitely would want a tire with “A” or “AA” UTQG traction rating, especially on high-priced high-performance tires.

 

[ruthrj]

Again though, TireRack found no difference in stopping distance on wet pavement relative to a couple of A traction competitors. That makes sense to me though as real world scenarios will test the tire’s static coefficient of friction. I’m guessing the Cross Climate 2 has a very high static coefficient due to the stellar reviews it’s getting. The B traction rating of the tire is merely the measure of the tires kinetic coefficient of friction. It seems like the design makes it difficult to break static friction before you get into a state of kinetic friction.

I completely respect your opinion as this was my initial worry as well, but it hasn’t cropped up in any data I’ve found. My A traction Goodyear’s had dogcrap traction after 2/3rds of their useable life were used up XD

 

[yrwei52]

Again though, TireRack found no difference in stopping distance on wet pavement relative to a couple of A traction competitors. That makes sense to me though as real world scenarios will test the tire’s static coefficient of friction. I’m guessing the Cross Climate 2 has a very high static coefficient due to the stellar reviews it’s getting. The B traction rating of the tire is merely the measure of the tires kinetic coefficient of friction. It seems like the design makes it difficult to break static friction before you get into a state of kinetic friction.

I completely respect your opinion as this was my initial worry as well, but it hasn’t cropped up in any data I’ve found. My A traction Goodyear’s had dogcrap traction after 2/3rds of their useable life were used up XD

Agreed. Sometimes the real world experience is different from the specified data (such as the oil change capacity on CX-5). My reply above simply express my opinion on B UTQG traction rating been put out by the Michelin for CrossClimate². Comparing to other Michelin tires such as Premier LTX、Primacy Tour A/S、Primacy A/S、Pilot Sport 4 SUV、and Pilot Sport 4 for our CX-5, CrossClimate² is the only tire featuring inferior B UTQG traction rating. This has to mean something on wet traction. Until many others prove the B rating won’t hurt the real world wet traction performance, I’d prefer to trust the UTQG ratings to avoid the tire, especially for those high priced tires.

 

[ruthrj]

For what it’s worth, the outgoing Cross Climate + was Consumer Reports top choice. I’m hoping they redo their testing with the latest model.

 

[yrwei52]

For what it’s worth, the outgoing Cross Climate + was Consumer Reports top choice. I’m hoping they redo their testing with the latest model.

Now you mentioned it, the outgoing Michelin CrossClimate + has “600 A A” UTQG.

In fact, we rarely see any tires with B rating on traction for UTQG nowadays. Our O.E. 225/65R17 100H Yokohama Geolandar G91A tire is the another one I’ve seen with UTQG “280 B A”. But that’s custom-made (cheap) O.E. tire for Mazda CX-5 with strange 100 load index, and a pathetic 280 treadwear rating on UTQG as an all-season tire.

 

[ruthrj]

Now you mentioned it, the outgoing Michelin CrossClimate + has “600 A A” UTQG.

In fact, we rarely see any tires with B rating on traction for UTQG nowadays. Our O.E. 225/65R17 100H Yokohama Geolandar G91A tire is the another one I’ve seen with UTQG “280 B A”. But that’s custom-made (cheap) O.E. tire for Mazda CX-5 with strange 100 load index, and a pathetic 280 treadwear rating on UTQG as an all-season tire.

Yes sir! I think the previous variant was a 40k mile tire. I found a Michelin representatives email response over at BITOG saying they had to trade off the traction rating for a longer life 60k mile tire. It must be a slightly tougher compound (640 v 600)

 

[ruthrj]

Woo! I think I just handled worst case scenario (short of slamming brakes anyway). We had a light rainfall after no precipitation for at least a week. I was coming down the mountain at about 40-45 mph while engine braking. Handled curves like it was dry. I slowed to about 25-30 mph to round a very tight corner. Halfway through the turn, Some knuckle head was coming from the other direction half in my lane. I turned aggressively to hug the shoulder and avoid the other car. No slipping.

Ill have to see what uphill is like if the road is still wet this evening. Good stuff, I hope I can have this performance for 50k

 

[kdaug]

I was outside my dealers service bay the other day and saw a stack of tires with sold signs on them. Included was a set of CC2's. I asked one of the mechanics what customer feed back had been on them as compared to the Continental CCLX25's (which they also sell). He said there were more favorable reports for the Continental CCLX25's, so I think this has confirmed my decision on what to buy when my OEM Toyo's wear out.