Mazdaspeed 3 Stutter

[NorCal_MP3]

I would guess it is the fact our cars are running CRAZY rich and fouling plugs...I am guessing any ECU flash we will get will be to change the fuel mapping slightly...
hopefully there will be motor mount TSB soon too...

 

[Speedy3]

Ok, I looked at the engine up and down, took off the IC cover and still can't find the spark plugs. I can't even find plug wires. There are four epoxy encapsulated devices on top of the engine under the IC. I believe these are the injectors but then I thought they could be high voltage coils for each spark plug instead of having a single coil for all four. This would explain the lack of high voltage spark plug wires. has anyone replaced or checked the spark plugs on the MZR 2.3L DISI-T engine ?

 

[Speedy3]

I talked to a parts manager at the dealership today. He happens to be a miata/RX-8 enthusist as well, so he really knows Mazdas. He told me they have gotten some "posts on the wire" about an iddle issue on the MS3, but no reports yet on stuttering. He recommended that I schedule an appointment for a "Drivability Issue". I told him what was said here in the forum and mentioned the Dealer Rep test drive option. He said that was a good idea, but hard to do. If the techs find any issues in the next appointment, they will post it immediately to the Engineers. I made an appointment for Friday at 9am PST. I will update as soon as I get a diagnosis.

 

[Speedy3]

my car did this once last night...one small stutter and that was it....WEIRD!

Any new issues?

 

[Speedy3]

....So, the current workaround is to run the car to normal operating temperature, then shut it off and restart. Temperature today was 35 degrees F.

This doesn't work. (pissed)

 

[EvilDeadFan]

Hey Speedy, I wonder, have you added any modificications to the car yet? I haven't researched your threads or anything. One thing, have you considdered the throttle body grounding mod? I know people have their reservations about it, but perhaps it could help. Just a thought.

 

[Speedy3]

Hey Speedy, I wonder, have you added any modificications to the car yet? I haven't researched your threads or anything. One thing, have you considdered the throttle body grounding mod? I know people have their reservations about it, but perhaps it could help. Just a thought.

I haven't added any mods. I want to keep the car in warranty since I bout the 2 year extension and the fact that this car is in it's first production year. I am interested in undetectable mods though like the XEDE w/ P&P harness.

What exactly does the throttle body grounding mod do?

 

[StephanieT]

Do you have any pending codes or a CEL? Any engine knock? What boost pressure are you at when it happens?

Chances are it is one or two possibilities
1. if this only happens on acceleration and around the same rpm - it is going to be spark plug, wire or coil pack related. The coil packs are sitting on top of the spark plugs. A good indicator would be a misfire code on a specific cylinder.
2. You could be feeling the car go open loop. I have seen a few MiataSpeeds do the same thing. To determine if this is the problem, you need a portable code reader that has live data read out. It should tell you when it goes open loop under boost. *Most* Speed models do not go open loop until after 5000 rpm.

The only time I'd believe temperature was a factor is if the O2 sensor had not warmed up completely and/or you were having an engine knock problem. Have you checked all the wires for possible issues? Mice love to chew on strange things.

You could have gotten a bad tank of gas. But not likely. Usually this problem will manifest itself thru engine knock. Just to rule out a possibility though - I'd switch brands of gasoline. Stick to premium octane though.

If it were me, I'd get a second opinion. Granted, the speed 3's are so new, most technicians won't have a clue. But, if he told me I was desensitized, see ya.. :bs: Nobody knows your car better than you.
Stephanie

 

[Speedy3]

Any engine knock?

I haven't noticed any knocks.

What boost pressure are you at when it happens?

I don't have a gauge installed. Do you have any recommendations on aftermarket brands?

Chances are it is one or two possibilities
1. if this only happens on acceleration and around the same rpm - it is going to be spark plug, wire or coil pack related. The coil packs are sitting on top of the spark plugs. A good indicator would be a misfire code on a specific cylinder.

Would a fouled plug generate a CEL?

2. You could be feeling the car go open loop. I have seen a few MiataSpeeds do the same thing. To determine if this is the problem, you need a portable code reader that has live data read out. It should tell you when it goes open loop under boost. *Most* Speed models do not go open loop until after 5000 rpm.

What make/model of portable code reader that has live data read out do you recommend?

The only time I'd believe temperature was a factor is if the O2 sensor had not warmed up completely and/or you were having an engine knock problem. Have you checked all the wires for possible issues? Mice love to chew on strange things.

I always let the engine warm up to normal operating temp before driving. Also, I haven't "heard" any knocks. I haven't looked for bad connections thouroughly.

You could have gotten a bad tank of gas. But not likely. Usually this problem will manifest itself thru engine knock. Just to rule out a possibility though - I'd switch brands of gasoline. Stick to premium octane though.

If it were me, I'd get a second opinion. Granted, the speed 3's are so new, most technicians won't have a clue. But, if he told me I was desensitized, see ya.. :bs: Nobody knows your car better than you.
Stephanie

I have had this problem through at least 8 or so tanks of gas. Again, i haven't noticed any knocks. The best gas we have in Washington State is 92 octane. What octane gas were your Dyno tests done on?

I am going to be more aggressive in resolving this. I am going to give my dealer another chance since I have only brought it in 1 time and they thought the primary reason was an oil change. (mis-communication on my part). Thanks BTW!

 

[StephanieT]

No problem!

I haven't noticed any knocks.

Good.

I don't have a gauge installed. Do you have any recommendations on aftermarket brands?

You can pick up good boost gauges just about anywhere these days. I think a bigger problem will me a gauge mount.

Would a fouled plug generate a CEL?

Sure can. So can a bad wire. It will typically come up as a misfire on Cylinder X. ie. P0301 is misfire on cylinder 1. P0300 is the random code.

What make/model of portable code reader that has live data read out do you recommend?

We use the Dyno Scan by Auterra. www.auterraweb.com. Very handy tool for any car guy/gal to have. Don't ask me how the dyno/torque functions work though. Still can't figure that one out.

I always let the engine warm up to normal operating temp before driving. Also, I haven't "heard" any knocks. I haven't looked for bad connections thoroughly.

Excellent. If I had not seen a couple of different cars with wires chewed on - I would have not believed it. My O2 sensor wire came up with a very small slice. It was fun driving in the rain...

I have had this problem through at least 8 or so tanks of gas. Again, i haven't noticed any knocks. The best gas we have in Washington State is 92 octane. What octane gas were your Dyno tests done on?

Not gad then, unless you are using the same station over and over. We are lucky to have 93 octane. Stick with 92, and until problem is found (and since there is no noticeable knock) I would not use the octane booster.

I am going to be more aggressive in resolving this. I am going to give my dealer another chance since I have only brought it in 1 time and they thought the primary reason was an oil change. (mis-communication on my part).

No problem. Since I have the gender barrier to contend with, I write a detailed note of all the problems. But I have been lucky enough to find a mechanic & service manager (besides the guys here!) that know who Corky is.
Stephanie

 

[Pololo_MS3]

Funny you guys are mentioning about this issue as I seem to be getting the same problems in mine.

This just started happening a couple of days ago. My car has about 1400 miles and I did experience this problem twice yesterday. I was in third gear in the lower RPMs (2K or so) when I punched it and it hesitated...It felt like either a Boost soleniod got stuck (not open in time), the BOV(check valve) did not close properly, a fouled plug or vaccum leak prevented the engine to rev up quickly enough.

It was scary as the car abruptly decided not to move anymore even though I was pressing the pedal hard.

I hope the dealer tells you what's going on with these problems.

Carlos

 

[Rainman]

After 5000 km in our MS3 we have noticed that the MS3 seems to take much longer than the MS6 to warm up.

Now that the colder weather has arrived here in London, the car takes three or four tries to start unless I hold the RPM at 2000 for 30 sec or so. Unlike the MS6 which starts on the first try every time, the MS3 sometimes needs a little coaxing.

In addition, when the engine temp has not reached its operating range (seems to take about 3-5 min), the engine will stutter and quit if the car is in gear and the throttle is modulated heavily. Offer a tiny bit of throttle in first and you are OK. Switch to second or third and give it more gas....stutter, sputter, and die if you don't put it into neutral and gas it. As soon as the engine temp comes up into operating range the cars runs fine without nary a hiccup.

The MS6 does not behave this way at all. Apart from this cold weather startup, the MS3 has not shown any problems.

R

 

[Speedy3]

I was in third gear in the lower RPMs (2K or so) when I punched it and it hesitated...It felt like either a Boost soleniod got stuck (not open in time), the BOV(check valve) did not close properly, a fouled plug or vaccum leak prevented the engine to rev up quickly enough.

It was scary as the car abruptly decided not to move anymore even though I was pressing the pedal hard.

Thanks Carlos. Keep us posted on any more developments. Your description sounds a little more like a hesitation than a stutter. Could you explain it a little more next time you experience it?

My problem is a stuttering and loss of power anywhere in the RPM range up to about 5000 RPM. One thing i'm noticing lately is it slowly goes away after a while when accelerating off and on, probably 20-30 accelerations in 3rd and 4th gear. I'll slow down to 50 MPH, then gradually press the accelerator to the floor and shift at 5K RPMS into 4th gear and let off at about 80 MPH. My commute is 40 miles one way and takes about an hour. After about 45 minutes of driving like I described above, the stutter seems to diminish about 80% or so.

My little boy wanted me to put an icon in the message:
(enguard) (glare)

 

[Speedy3]

After 5000 km in our MS3 we have noticed that the MS3 seems to take much longer than the MS6 to warm up.
R

I never had problems with my MS3 starting, but it has always taken a long time to warm up. Drives me nuts, so I usually hold the RPMs at 2k while parked until it is warm. I bet a lot of MS3's are going to get stolen while warming up unattended! (pissed)

Now that the colder weather has arrived here in London, the car takes three or four tries to start unless I hold the RPM at 2000 for 30 sec or so. Unlike the MS6 which starts on the first try every time, the MS3 sometimes needs a little coaxing.R

How cold is it there in London right now?

In addition, when the engine temp has not reached its operating range (seems to take about 3-5 min), the engine will stutter and quit if the car is in gear and the throttle is modulated heavily. Offer a tiny bit of throttle in first and you are OK. Switch to second or third and give it more gas....stutter, sputter, and die if you don't put it into neutral and gas it. As soon as the engine temp comes up into operating range the cars runs fine without nary a hiccup.R

My MS3 has never quit on me, but it does stutter a lot and I do get some power loss, almost like it's not getting enough air. Does the engine completelyshut off and you have to re-start it?

 

[Speedy3]

Sure can. So can a bad wire. It will typically come up as a misfire on Cylinder X. ie. P0301 is misfire on cylinder 1. P0300 is the random code.

So I haven't gotten misfires then, but fouled plugs could still be the problem, right? I guess if the spark isn't hot enough?

We use the Dyno Scan by Auterra. www.auterraweb.com. Very handy tool for any car guy/gal to have. Don't ask me how the dyno/torque functions work though. Still can't figure that one out.

I think i'm going to order one soon.

Excellent. If I had not seen a couple of different cars with wires chewed on - I would have not believed it. My O2 sensor wire came up with a very small slice. It was fun driving in the rain....

Cats do like to sleep in our car engine compartments when it is cold out. It isn't outside the realm of possibilities that there could be some damage. Also, a semi-truck threw a bunch of gravel at my car one day. Could have nicked a wire, maybe.

Not gad then, unless you are using the same station over and over. We are lucky to have 93 octane. Stick with 92, and until problem is found (and since there is no noticeable knock) I would not use the octane booster.

Agreed. I am almost ready to fill up on a fresh tank.

 

[quiet desperado]

After 5000 km in our MS3 we have noticed that the MS3 seems to take much longer than the MS6 to warm up.

Now that the colder weather has arrived here in London, ....

R

Oh, Christ, London traffic. Well, at least you've got your steering wheel on the correct side. Or do you? Since you're talking about your MS6 in the same breath, I'm assuming you brought them both over. Or did you buy the 3 there? Anyway, best of luck on those roundabouts. Completely insane. I rented a car a few years back and drove out to Bath. After the first roundabout, I decided the best approach was just to close my eyes and floor it.

 

[StephanieT]

I just talked to a customer of mine who is a Mazda Tech. He mentioned a couple of other possibilities too. (And he says that most all MS3's he has driven have the same stutter/hesitation.) Have the dealership check the intake runner control and the variable tumble control (?). He also mentioned that Mazda has done a PCM flash for a similar problem on the MS6. Thought I throw those ideas out there too.

Keep us posted!
Stephanie

 

[Rainman]

I never had problems with my MS3 starting, but it has always taken a long time to warm up. Drives me nuts, so I usually hold the RPMs at 2k while parked until it is warm. I bet a lot of MS3's are going to get stolen while warming up unattended! (pissed)

My wife who is the primary driver for the MS3 does the same thing. IT drives me nuts, but I found that I had to do the same thing when I drove it in the cold.

How cold is it there in London right now?

Right now it is really mild. Over the holidays it was down to about -10 C at the coldest. The MS3 doesn't like temps lower than 0C it seems. In warm weather she starts, and runs like a dream.

My MS3 has never quit on me, but it does stutter a lot and I do get some power loss, almost like it's not getting enough air. Does the engine completely shut off and you have to re-start it?

It will quit if you don't give it any gas causing you to have to re-start it. Of course, after having it do this to me twice and my wife laugh at my dumb ass (after telling me that it WAS necessary to hold it at 2K RPM until warm) I gave it more gas so that this wouldn't happen again. It IS like it isn't getting enough air, but that can't be the case since the colder temp increases the charge air density. I have wondered if perhaps the tuning for cold air temps is a bit off. No big deal either way, but I would like to know why it does this.

R

 

[Olestra]

I never had problems with my MS3 starting, but it has always taken a long time to warm up. Drives me nuts, so I usually hold the RPMs at 2k while parked until it is warm. I bet a lot of MS3's are going to get stolen while warming up unattended! (pissed)

What about investing in a car starter/alarm? Put one in my reg M3 and a 10 minute warm up period goes by very quickly while I'm eating breakfast. It also stops you from having to hold the engine at 2k. =) (not sure that this can be bad for the engine when cold) It also has a turbo timer - I heard MS's don't need a cool down period anymore? - but can't hurt to let it idle for 2-3 minutes after driving, walk away with it running and it shuts itself off.

Oh, Christ, London traffic. Well, at least you've got your steering wheel on the correct side. Or do you? Since you're talking about your MS6 in the same breath, I'm assuming you brought them both over. Or did you buy the 3 there? Anyway, best of luck on those roundabouts. Completely insane. I rented a car a few years back and drove out to Bath. After the first roundabout, I decided the best approach was just to close my eyes and floor it.

London, Ontario, CANADA....

Right now it is really mild. Over the holidays it was down to about -10 C at the coldest. The MS3 doesn't like temps lower than 0C it seems. In warm weather she starts, and runs like a dream.

Yikes, had a couple weeks of -30 in Edmonton back in Nov. I was scared of getting a MS3 b/c I didn't know how it would handle in the winter. Maybe I'll consider one in a couple years.


Anyways, back to the OP - good luck, I'll be watching this thread through! I wonder if reseting your ECU would help, if it so happens to be an ECU issue?

 

[quiet desperado]

London, Ontario, CANADA....

Doh! I guess that makes more sense than bringing LH drivers across the pond. Not to mention the impossibility of those temps in balmy London. At least with the current path of Gulf Stream. Double doh!