Mazda 5 engine ticking... is this a time bomb?

[jmcglynn]

I like the screwdriver and broomstick option! Sometimes the simplest tools are the best ;-)

I still think there's a possibility of it being a valve... though both Mazda and my other mechanic seem to have ruled that out. Then again, we haven't pulled the head either (just the top cover... cam shafts and top of engine look good... but who knows what the valves or cylinder heads look like...). My other mechanic did note that the issue with the timing chain/tensioner did cause the timing to be off... which could have damaged some valves... so I'm not ruling that out yet.

I think the idea of it being "external" could be a possibility... but what? It's not a belt... those have been replaced. Belt tensioner? Maybe. A/C compressor was mentioned earlier... but there's no change in sound whether the A/C is on or off. Alternator? Not likely as a sound like that would likely show it's effects through the charging system. Water pump? Possible. Power steering? Again, not likely as that would likely telescope through the steering column. At one point I even considered that it might be something loose with the exhaust manifold, but no one else has looked at that. What's left that I'm missing?

Then again... if Mazda says it's coming from the "bottom" of the engine... could it be the flywheel, clutch, or some other leading end of the transmission?

Let's see if we can get some more ideas... in the meantime I'm still planning on making some more recordings to see if we can pinpoint this better...

 

[Davicho]

You know what? It just downed on me...a few years ago when Rosenthal Mazda used to have that nice link to TSBs I remember reading a TSB that applied only to manual transmission Mazda5s about a rattle or metal to metal noise coming from the engine. Problem is that I can't seem to find it anywhere now. Let's see if we can find that TSB and rule it out.

 

[jmcglynn]

Hey Davicho... good thinking...
It helped me to remember that I downloaded a series of TSB's back in 2009... probably from that same site. I found them on an old memory stick and looked through them (27 in all, 10 related to the engine, one to transmission). I didn't find anything in those, but there might be more TSB's out there. Let us know if you find anything. In the meantime, to Aaron (flcruising)... those tech manuals you had... any chance you have the section for the manual transmission? It would be cool if I could "see" what's going on at that end of the engine...

 

[jmcglynn]

Closing this chapter...

First off... I want to thank everyone who read and replied. It was all very helpful and I appreciate everyone who stepped up and offered advice. It's with great sadness, however, that I have to report that we sold our Mazda 5 (at a substantially reduced price) so someone else to continue figuring out what might be going on with it. I'm a family man with a wife and two daughters (11 and 8), and this was our primary vehicle (which my wife drove most of the time). As much as I would love to have the time and the tools to rip this thing apart myself, there's just too much else going on in our lives for me to take on a task like that right now, and I couldn't afford to have my trusted mechanic keep tearing it apart, especially with the possibility that the Mazda dealer's diagnosis was indeed correct, and the engine was terminal. I've been very saddened by all of this, and my 8 year old cried real tears (Like I did at that age when my parents traded their light blue 1965 Chevy II Nova wagon).

Even with it's flaws, I loved our Mazda 5 (especially the Phantom Blue Mica paint job... Mazda needs to bring that back!). It was just the right size. It had a great seating arrangement for a family plus friends or cargo. It drove and handled with all the zoom-zoom one could ask for from a people-hauling platform. I loved that it stood out in a crowd, and by all specifications, stood out from the competition. As much as we loved it, however, it didn't seem to be aging well...
- the upholstery was showing signs of premature wear (particularly on the front seat bolsters)
- the lamination on the inside rear-view mirror was starting to peal on the top and bottom edge
- the clearcoat on the hood and roof was starting to crack
- the headlights were starting to yellow
For a car that was only 6 years old with only 78K miles, it was looking and acting like a car twice it's age and mileage... and I've got some experience with keeping cars long-term. Not counting the Mazda 5, I've had 7 cars and 2 motorcycles. 5 of the 7 cars we kept to over 180K miles, and 2 of those to over 250K miles. 4 of those 6 were manual transmission. On the motorcycles I've put in 140K and 60K respectively. I know what it takes to make a vehicle last, and have plenty of experience with the issues to expect as a car ages. Our Mazda didn't get treated any better or worse than my previous vehicles, yet I was starting to question it's long-term quality... then we got the terminal diagnosis from the Mazda dealer.

I don't know if it was just this particular car, or if it's Mazda in general... but for all that is GREAT about this car, my experience with these quality issues have left me befuddled, saddened, and extremely disappointed. The MZ5 we were hoping to keep for another 6 to 10 years is gone. In it's place, a blue 2012 VW Jetta SportWagon (with a stick, of course... my number one must have). It's nice... but for all it is, it's still not our MZ5. We even found Silver 2009 MZ5 with a stickthat someone had for sale... we were VERY tempted, but in the end it was a private sale and didn't have enough cash... and my wife was still skittish about the engine.

So even with all of this, I still haven't given up completely on the Mazda 5... and part of that is due to this forum community. One of my good friends still has her MZ5 (based on our recommendation), and I plan to keep my ears open to what's happening in the Mazda 5 news. Maybe they'll bring back the Phantom Blue Mica for 2014... I just hope they still offer a stick by then (I'm not entirely hopefull on that...). So even though I'm no longer an owner, I'm still very much a fan, and plan to keep in touch with this forum, in the hopes that one day I'll have another 5 sitting in my driveway...

Cheers!
-John

 

[flcruising]

Sorry, you have all the information I do as well. I didn't provide the actual documentation, just referenced the link a time or two.

 

[cburrell]

Sorry to hear that. Funny how it works, your had problems with your 5 and if go on the real world mpg's thread and mr.fusion has a 2006AT with 209,000 miles and has done nothing but general maintenance on it, and all the engine and transmission is original. I guess sometimes it is the luck of the draw. Just like a guy I work with who says he has had good luck buying chevy trucks and bad luck with fords. Another a co-worker overheard him say that and said he has had nothing but bad luck with chevy trucks and good luck with fords. Two guys in the same room, who had been buying vehicles for 30 years and yet had two very different outcomes with the same car manufacturers, it is crazy how that works sometimes! Hope you have good luck with your new Jetta, but VW isn't known for their reliability either.

 

[phunky.buddha]

VW's reliability "reputation" mostly stems from the time its plants in Mexico were turning out junk between MY1998 and MY2002. My parents had one of those Passats... horrible. Now they've recovered quite nicely.

Sorry to hear that you sold the 5, but at least you got rid of the problem.

 

[jmcglynn]

Thanks guys... too true. I've heard a lot of the same conversations.

Even with all of this, I'm still willing to give the Mazda5 the benefit of the doubt. All day yesterday I was beside myself about this, and it was everything I could do to not call to get my old Mazda5 back. Still, I can't argue with the sound I recorded, and it was probably all for the best.

I heard the same thing about the "hecho en Mexico" VW's... and stumbled across some horror stories as I was researching my own Mazda engine sounds. At least I have a good warranty for a while (better than I ever had with the Mazda). Who knows... did my Mazda have a defect? Given it's early VIN, maybe. Did the defective timing chain tensioner play a role in this bigger issue... possible. Did my wife or I do something to it that may have caused the problem? I don't know... maybe... I can't point to anything, but neither can I rule it out. Did my dealer have a hand in screwing things up... perhaps, though not intentionally... especially that time they underfilled the oil (not that I could prove it... and it was ticking before they did that anyway...).

Anyway... I'll post up the TSB's I have... and will continue to check in on things here from time to time waiting for my return to the land of zoom-zoom.

 

[phunky.buddha]

I would honestly just chalk it up to bad luck, or that maybe you got a lemon- but based on everyone else's positive experiences, don't ban yourself from getting another one later if it fits. You could always buy one used with the intention of building the engine up first before turning the car into a daily driver- that way you know everything is right. One of the plans I had was to build an Odyssey with a turbo powerplant and a 6 speed manual in it so I could have a fun minivan, but time was too short to attempt something like that.

 

[jmcglynn]

One of the plans I had was to build an Odyssey with a turbo powerplant and a 6 speed manual

Cool! Now that's one ride I'd like to drive!
Nope... even with the problems I've had with this one unit, I've not given up on the 5... and I can say this... way better zoom-zoom than the VW Jetta SportWagon. I tried to convince my wife to let me buy back our 5 and keep it as a toy... but we just don't have the room. It's still the only car like it in the States. As long as Mazda keeps making them (with a stick)... my garage door is open.

 

[phunky.buddha]

It's a nice car, but if you're just looking for a toy and don't have to worry about carrying kids/gear, go get a cheap Miata.

 

[speed5]

I'm experiencing the same noise now on my 06 5MT. Got 103k miles. Changed belt tensioner as well as ran without AC belt so I know it's neither the compressor or belt tensioner components. It only happens at 2-3k RPM even standing at neutral. Can't tell if timing chain has slack without pulling the cover. I read somewhere that you can feel the chain slack with your finger through the oil fill hole. I'm not sure if that works.

jmcglynn, I know you had a new timing chain and tensioner installed and still had the noise, but it wasn't clear in the posts if that included replacing the VVT actuator. Appreciate it if you would clarify. Thanks. I'd hate to dump my MZ5 now that I have it set up the way I like it.

 

[brandini]

I thought you could unplug the vvt actuator to essentially turn it off, that may help rule it in/out.

Also our lifters are solid and will require manual adjustment by re-shimming if they get noisy, if not done in a timely manner you'll burn a valve and lose compression.

Sorry to see it go and keep us informed if the next owner finds the issue!

 

[speed5]

thanks. how do you unplug the VVT actuator? i tried searching but came up empty. I did find a Mazda Service Bulletin #01-010-11.2 http://www.miata.net/garage/tsb/01-010-11.2.pdf that seems to describe my problem. The VVT Actuator appears to be a mechanical assembly attached to the intake cam. well, it's going to the dealer in a couple of days for a diagnosis. not a job i have the patience or time to tackle.

 

[markuszoom5]

My wife's civic has been ticking for 7 years, no changes yet hahahaha, if it still drives the same would not worry about it

 

[speed5]

sorry folks. i threw in the towel. end of the road for my 5. i ended up taking it to the dealer to have it checked out. of course, you know what they said. it's rod-knock and i need a new engine. since my wife had been hankering for a new car anyway, i traded in my '06 5 with 103k miles instead of her '01 bimmer with 113k miles for a scooby a 2013 Forester 5MT. if it's truly rod knock, i dont know why it developed it, but maybe i was a little lax on the oil maintenance. all you 5 owners please check your oil levels regularly, make sure you change your oil frequently. i found that running synthetic consumes oil and i have to top off between changes. the last oil change i experimented with 0w-20. it may have consumed faster than i expected and i didn't top off quick enough. note: oil light never came on. interestingly, the Mazda sales guy tried to argue that Ford owned Mazda at the time and my 06 had a lot of Ford parts, and ever since 2008, Ford got out and it's been 100% Mazda. short of admitting it had flawed parts, they still werent going to help repair or replace my engine.
anyway, it's been fun while it lasted. good luck to the rest of you. i got some leftover parts i'll be posting later on in the classified section, like mazdaspeed CAI and pedal assemblies, Inno rack, factory cargo liner, factory carpet floor mats, BaysonR front lip, OEM alloys w tires.

 

[phunky.buddha]

Maybe because of the 0w oil? Sad to hear.

 

[brandini]

0w oil didn't do it, and 0w-20 is the same as 5w-20 when at operating temperature.

0w is a cold rating based on 2 tests, not a viscosity.

Out of curiosity, does/did your 5 have a coolant temp gauge?

 

[speed5]

it had the stock coolant temp gauge which doesnt give the temp but a needle moving across a bunch of tick marks, with red zone on the higher end. i did have the Torque android app running a few times connected to my OBD2 bluetooth dongle, during the summer. That gave me actual temp reading.

phunky.buddha, i sent u some pm but nothing shows up in my sent folder. did u get my pm? thx.

 

[phunky.buddha]

0w oil didn't do it, and 0w-20 is the same as 5w-20 when at operating temperature.

0w is a cold rating based on 2 tests, not a viscosity.

You are absolutely right... had it backwards. Might have been too early in the morning.