JL W7s hit LATE

[proto5handler]

Whats up guys, i have an issue that hopefully i can get some feedback on. First here is what i have...

1000/1 power 2x 10W7s
300/4 powering BAs RC820s (front) and BAs RM6(rear)

I think i have an issue with the subs being late or sloppy with certain songs. Songs such as techno type, the bass hits incredibly late, even though the sales people at Tweeter (where i bought the entire system) swear that these subs are made for all types of music. I dont know if its me or just personal taste, or slightly HIGHER expectations, but in some songs, i feel as though the bass is not well defined, it just humms REAL loud. Now, of course, on majority of other songs, these subs perform at the highest level delivering bass that would have people thinking there are several 12s in the back. Alright, any feedback would be great. By the way, system was installed by tweeter as well.

 

[Ryan]

its the quality of the song,, and how it was setup and how much bass it was setup to deliver...

 

[proto5handler]

yeah, i never tought of it like that. i can think of a few songs where that could be the case. what about the lateness in the bass when playing techno? thnx.

 

[1sty]

Often techno has a midbass punch not true sub bass. If that techno hit is say over 80hz the W7 aren't going to play it especialy if the crossover is set lower.

Run the song throuhg a program with a graphic analyzer and see where the note you want to to play is.

I assume its a sealed box?

 

[Ryan]

to be considered techno the song much have somewhere like 200 beats per second or something mabye its 100 or something, but lemme stick/attach a battery to ur ass and see if you can hit 100 beats per second and sound okay? lol... techno has alot of short small bass clips its not late u just are not hearing it. the only way its gonna hit late is if the quality of the song is s***, or something to that effect, if your downloading these songs of the net try downloading 192 bit or higher, if not 320.. now thats sound quality these 128 bit mp3 are crap.

 

[proto5handler]

yes, its a sealed box and the subs are pointing toward the back. i have seen some set ups where the subs are either pointing toward the driver or pointing up. any advantage or disadvantage in a set up of that nature. thnx for your feedback guys.

on a different note, 1 MP3, i know you told me a while back when i was asking for your advice to go with the W6v2s, and i might still go in that direction. how would you compare the bass between 2 12s W6v2 and the 2 10s W7. i went with the W7s because the sales guy insisted that 10 W7 will hit just as tight as a 10 W6v2 but with deeper notes. thnx again.

 

[servoeyes]

try downloading 192 bit or higher, if not 320.. now thats sound quality these 128 bit mp3 are crap.

(werd)

 

[1sty]

yes, its a sealed box and the subs are pointing toward the back. i have seen some set ups where the subs are either pointing toward the driver or pointing up. any advantage or disadvantage in a set up of that nature. thnx for your feedback guys.

on a different note, 1 MP3, i know you told me a while back when i was asking for your advice to go with the W6v2s, and i might still go in that direction. how would you compare the bass between 2 12s W6v2 and the 2 10s W7. i went with the W7s because the sales guy insisted that 10 W7 will hit just as tight as a 10 W6v2 but with deeper notes. thnx again.

The W7 always sounds like it just doesn't like anything over say 65hz. It may just be the applications I have installed them in but thats what I heard. The W6v2 seems less anoyed with higher bass notes.

Read this thread:
http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=018516

Be only concerned with member, msmith's comments. He is a senior engineer at JL.

 

[1551Racing]

Are u sure that the subs are phased properly? If not, that could cause the problem pretty quickly

 

[proto5handler]

yes, someone did mention the phasing to me once before. but if they are out of phase, wouldnt it affect other songs as well?? thnx for the input.

 

[1sty]

IF out of phase with the mids the crossover frequency may be all screwy and basicly missing. If out of phase with each other you wouldn't hear damn near anything.

 

[Astral]

Listen to your "techno" songs on a different system and see whether the bass sounds the same.

A typical "techno" song (using the term loosely here) does the whole kick-boom-kick-boom thing, and some pretty much fill the space between the bassdrum hits with low bass.

Do any of your friends have car stereo setups of their own? Maybe you know someone w/ a good home audio system? Or someone w/ a good pair of headphones? (like Sony MDR-7506)

 

[k2kyo]

I'm not one to know something about this subject really.. but I do have a comment about whoever said techno needs like 200 beats per second. As a musician I can tell you for sure, that 200 beats per second, would sound like a note.. not a beat. I think you may mean 200 beats per MINUTE which is probably much more accurate.. the average song (rock for instance) is probably around 80-100 beat per minute.. techno is much faster.. so 200 would be reasonable.. I've heard songs up to around 400 bpm or more actually..

Anyway, figured I'd just clear that up

Kyle

 

[1sty]

I dopn't think he ment BPM I think he ment 200 hz?

 

[Rider69]

Actually, he probably did refer to BPM. Beats per minute.

 

[Astral]

I'm not one to know something about this subject really.. but I do have a comment about whoever said techno needs like 200 beats per second. As a musician I can tell you for sure, that 200 beats per second, would sound like a note.. not a beat. I think you may mean 200 beats per MINUTE which is probably much more accurate.. the average song (rock for instance) is probably around 80-100 beat per minute.. techno is much faster.. so 200 would be reasonable.. I've heard songs up to around 400 bpm or more actually..

Anyway, figured I'd just clear that up

Kyle

200 bpm is very fast. Most "techno" is around 120-140bpm, whereas really fast heavy metal or drum'n'bass music reaches 180bpm (and is not common).

200 bpm is more like hardcore or speedcore, and I think that anything above 250bpm is getting too fast for comprehension. If a song claims to be 400bpm, it either sounds like noise or sounds more like 200 or 100bpm.

Anyway

 

[k2kyo]

Actually.. 200bpm really isn't incredible. For instance.. I've played many pieces of jazz that were around 120 in cut time.. which puts it really at like 240 or so.. and there are some faster than that. They sound perfectly clear.

Heck, I've seen marching bands play things going 180 or so.. not too fast at all.

Anyway whatever, this really isn't relavent to the discussion hehe.. but I couldn't resist

Kyle

 

[nate0123]

I have 2 10w3s and a 500/1 and notice the same lagging on faster songs. Sealed box.

edit: I'm running off line level inputs, so I kinda always attributed it to this. Are you running off pre-outs or line inputs?

 

[got wake?]

get rid of the JL's and get brahmas as a note dealing with the thread, i know some techno songs seem like the bass hits late, or not exactly where it should, and that's just the mix. the first time i heard a song i was like WTF? but on other systems it sounds the same, so that might be the problem

 

[proto5handler]

so what kind of set ups do people usually put together for techno style listening. are subs simply out of the question?? my friend has 2 12" audibahn subs in a simple sealed box, BUT his subs are pointing UP in the back of the minivan. And i swear that the bass on techno hits perfectly. He paid probably 1/7 of the price of the JLs that i bought and his bass hits perfectly. Of course they dont hit the same deep notes that my JLs do, but they arent that far off. I just dont know enough about all the technical stuff to determine if its just that i expect too much or my system is not tweaked well. Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Just to note, i mostly play hip hop, rap, some rock and techno. I was just hoping for a system that works well for all music if possible.